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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Denison, Iowa

 kronk wrote:
On it!

On Topic:

We should continue to make strides to make sure that Women and men get equal pay for equal work. I will continue to support that effort. A woman can be a doctor, lawyer, whatever. However, with that equality should come the understanding that if John can be drafted next month to fight the dirty commies, so should Jane.


According to the Department of Labor (and fact checked by Politifacts) young women are now out earning men. Women under age 32 will earn 6-8% more than a man with equal education and experience. If the woman is in a STEM field she is twice as likely to be hired.


Also, I'm for all kinds of equality, even the controversial ones, like the draft......or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BNxVAWcu7Q

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 21:22:03


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Crowe operator on the MATVE

Edit

Cuda Cav Scout

Ouze we swap out the Javelin with AT4's

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 21:21:50


Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

 Jihadin wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Crowe operator on the MATVE


I have no idea what this is. I can M203, Carl-G, M72, M240, M249, M4-16, 9mm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 21:27:23


Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Denison, Iowa

 Jihadin wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Crowe operator on the MATVE

Edit

Cuda Cav Scout

Ouze we swap out the Javelin with AT4's


Am I a Cav Scout because of my Avatar?? LOL. I can do a drive-by on it with my Mac11 or Micro Uzi. Need a sniper? I have my .338 Lapua rifle with a 24 power scope.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 cuda1179 wrote:
 kronk wrote:
On it!

On Topic:

We should continue to make strides to make sure that Women and men get equal pay for equal work. I will continue to support that effort. A woman can be a doctor, lawyer, whatever. However, with that equality should come the understanding that if John can be drafted next month to fight the dirty commies, so should Jane.


According to the Department of Labor (and fact checked by Politifacts) young women are now out earning men. Women under age 32 will earn 6-8% more than a man with equal education and experience. If the woman is in a STEM field she is twice as likely to be hired.


Also, I'm for all kinds of equality, even the controversial ones, like the draft......or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BNxVAWcu7Q




Seriously cuda, it's common practice. Degrees? Locations? Age range? What about Transgenders?

~1.5k
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Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





at the keyboard

Heck yeah, it should be both - or none. My oldest registered online - got a free shaving kit from gillette go swag! My other two aren't quite old enough yet, but they will, momma will make sure.

Let's get real here gents... the reason women weren't allowed in the military for so long was not from some misguided patriarchial favoritism or desire to "protect" women... it's cuz they knew we'd kick y'all's s

Seriously though physical requirements aren't as much of an issue as people think, plenty of women can do what men can do and vice versa. Time to just realize hey, we're all human and good at different stuff not simply based on our gender but our abilities. If my eyesight hadn't kept me out, I totally would have been in the military and proudly.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Denison, Iowa

 jreilly89 wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
 kronk wrote:
On it!

On Topic:

We should continue to make strides to make sure that Women and men get equal pay for equal work. I will continue to support that effort. A woman can be a doctor, lawyer, whatever. However, with that equality should come the understanding that if John can be drafted next month to fight the dirty commies, so should Jane.


According to the Department of Labor (and fact checked by Politifacts) young women are now out earning men. Women under age 32 will earn 6-8% more than a man with equal education and experience. If the woman is in a STEM field she is twice as likely to be hired.


Also, I'm for all kinds of equality, even the controversial ones, like the draft......or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BNxVAWcu7Q




Seriously cuda, it's common practice. Degrees? Locations? Age range? What about Transgenders?


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/09/genevieve-wood/what-pay-gap-young-women-out-earn-men-cities-gop-p/

http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/04/women-preferred-21-over-men-stem-faculty-positions

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/14/study-suggests-stem-faculty-hiring-favors-women-over-men

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/04/22/396672571/could-it-be-researchers-find-a-hiring-bias-that-favors-women

http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2015/11/women-favored-2-to-1-in-stem-hiring/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/14/study-finds-surprisingly-that-women-are-favored-for-jobs-in-stem/

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Bobthehero wrote:
 Jihadin wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Crowe operator on the MATVE


I have no idea what this is. I can M203, Carl-G, M72, M240, M249, M4-16, 9mm.




Remote control duel serve.
Sorry Cuda you got the M4 and 9mm

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

I can live with that.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

 Jihadin wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Crowe operator on the MATVE

Edit

Cuda Cav Scout

Ouze we swap out the Javelin with AT4's


Don't listen to him....MATVEs are a tinfoik fart box on wheels.

 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Well I am light infantry, so I'll take anything other than myself as a method of transportation, for a change.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

 Bobthehero wrote:
Well I am light infantry, so I'll take anything other than myself as a method of transportation, for a change.


See if I can't make some phone calls and get you a Buffalo, only military vehicle ever made with both cush seat and spacious leg room. Its like riding in a cloud...if a cloud also doubled as a wheeled armored tugboat with a pokey robot arm.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

I think its awesome. About time.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




I guess I stand in the minority on Dakka thinking it's a terrible idea if it means putting women into infantry combat units.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle



USA

 Bobthehero wrote:
If you need people for your imaginary Dakka army, I am qualified on almost every infantryman weapon you guys use in the US.

As for on-topic, I second the motion, for what its worth. We have female in the infantry here and while there's only 2 of them in my unit, they're pretty damn good.


Bob, when you say "2 of them in my unit" do you mean in your platoon, company/commando, or battalion? I started my military career as a infantryman but ended as a logistics officer ( probably long before most posters were even born
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Company, or so.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I agree with it.

Will you take a former marine in your little group.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle



USA

Bob,
What is your objective opinion on women in the infantry? While I've met plenty of mentally and physically tough women, in my career, which included infantry and logistics, I've never met a woman who could hump the AG gear or the baseplate for a 60mm mortar. When in logistics on our rare ruck marches, every single woman, to include those who would crush those fanatics at Cross Fit, could be found far to the rear of the weakest men. I still remain skeptical of the integrity of the standards of the most recent Ranger School graduates. While I fully expect a tiny minority of women could do this job, I'm a bit amazed you have two in your company in an Army ( Canada I presume) that is smaller than the active strength of just one major US Army base. When I trained with the Canadian Airborne Regiment in the early 90's I was truly impressed by the quality of those troops, so do not expect a "average" woman to be able to keep up.
Thanks for your time and thoughts.
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Can't say I have enough time in the army to make a proper opinion, there's not a lot of them as I've said, but the two I know are now to the point where they don't carry the heavy stuff (leadership), but as far as shape goes, both those two are usually the ones giving PT to either qualified platoons or recruits. That said I wouldn't know if they're the exception. On my infantry course we had one girl who didn't finish the ruck march, but the other one managed to do it without too much troubles. I dunno if its just because there's so few women that those who fail just stand out that much more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 00:51:33


Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Of course let's be realistic here: in any situation where the draft could possibly be relevant physical ability is not going to matter. If you can hold a rifle and catch a bullet you're going into battle, because the alternative is death anyway.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Peregrine wrote:
Of course let's be realistic here: in any situation where the draft could possibly be relevant physical ability is not going to matter. If you can hold a rifle and catch a bullet you're going into battle, because the alternative is death anyway.



If women are going into battle that can't keep up on a march, handle heavy equipment, or do anything on the level of strength a man has, though, chances are they will get both themselves and others injured or killed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 01:02:11


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

Isn't the whole point of the draft to add more bodies to the army and nothing to do with it's efficiency? So in those terms having a larger pool to draw from would be a "good" thing.

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Isn't the whole point of the draft to add more bodies to the army and nothing to do with it's efficiency? So in those terms having a larger pool to draw from would be a "good" thing.


By that logic, people with physical disabilities should be drafted.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Relapse wrote:
If women are going into battle that can't keep up on a march, handle heavy equipment, or do anything on the level of strength a man has, though, chances are they will get both themselves and others injured or killed.


That's fine. Give them a gun, throw them at the enemy, maybe they'll force the enemy to spend a bullet killing them. It's not like any of the other untrained conscripts you're throwing directly into the meat grinder are going to accomplish much more than that. You need to be thinking about real-world IG conscript hordes, not anything resembling our current military.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
By that logic, people with physical disabilities should be drafted.


Can they hold a gun? Can they at least run threateningly at the enemy and draw fire for a moment while someone else shoots the enemy? Give them a pointy stick and throw them into battle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 01:15:14


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Relapse wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Of course let's be realistic here: in any situation where the draft could possibly be relevant physical ability is not going to matter. If you can hold a rifle and catch a bullet you're going into battle, because the alternative is death anyway.



If women are going into battle that can't keep up on a march, handle heavy equipment, or do anything on the level of strength a man has, though, chances are they will get both themselves and others injured or killed.
In some circumstances, sure, though if a draft is implemented and we're taking anyone and everyone, standards are going to fall regardless and many (if not most) of the males you're likely to get aren't exactly going to be great physical specimens either, lets be honest, we saw that amongst all the armies of WW1&2, where armies were taking people they'd have laughed out of the recruitment office before the war.

If you're out of everyone else, then you're going to have to use what you can get.

There's also tons of roles that don't require a great abundance of physical prowess but might still be in front line or near front line, and with the mechanization of modern armies, long distance marches with extensive pack aren't the ubiquitous state of affairs they used to be.

I don't think anyone is advocating drafting women and immediately trying to hamfist them into Special Forces and front line infantry regiments in equal quantity to males, but if there's a draft...something has gone *very* wrong, and a physically weaker person is usually a better replacement than no person if there's no other option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 01:20:04


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Peregrine wrote:
Relapse wrote:
If women are going into battle that can't keep up on a march, handle heavy equipment, or do anything on the level of strength a man has, though, chances are they will get both themselves and others injured or killed.


That's fine. Give them a gun, throw them at the enemy, maybe they'll force the enemy to spend a bullet killing them. It's not like any of the other untrained conscripts you're throwing directly into the meat grinder are going to accomplish much more than that. You need to be thinking about real-world IG conscript hordes, not anything resembling our current military.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
By that logic, people with physical disabilities should be drafted.


Can they hold a gun? Can they at least run threateningly at the enemy and draw fire for a moment while someone else shoots the enemy? Give them a pointy stick and throw them into battle.


You know, as I think of it, you have something going here that's a good idea. I think we could modify the draft to include something resembling press gangs! I'm in!
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Relapse wrote:
You know, as I think of it, you have something going here that's a good idea. I think we could modify the draft to include something resembling press gangs! I'm in!


Exactly. That's the only situation where the draft is ever going to be used. If we aren't to the point of rounding up cannon fodder and throwing them straight into battle because it's our last desperate hope for saving anything in the radioactive wasteland that used to be our country then we're going to continue to have an all-volunteer army.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

One of the best examples (while not recruiting into frontline duty) are probably the women's land army/ land girls.

The obvious extension of those things combined with our differing views, is women in the draft.

Also something about Total War, but I'm too tired to put together a point about it, somebody pick up the slack.

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Go for it, if they're getting the right to serve in frontline units then they need to be treated 100% equally and have the potential to be drafted as well. As horribly sexist as it sounds, maybe it'll cut down on the warmongering our country gets sometimes if there's the possibility that women could be drafted into fighting it.

As peregrine puts it, the odds of us ever getting a draft that isn't an end of the world type scenario is pretty darn slim. I heard rumors of a draft being instated a while back when the USA had trouble hitting recruiting goals during the worst of the Iraq insurgency, but honestly it would've never happened unless recruiting hit such low numbers that almost nobody was walking into the recruiting offices.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper




Food for thought, a piece from DefenseOne:


What Americans Don’t Understand About Their Own Military
Reinstating the draft is hardly a realistic solution to bridging the military-civilian gap in the U.S. And here's why.

One of the strangest criticisms of US security policy is that it burdens a too-small percentage of the American people, because only about 1% of the adult population serves in the military. Because such a small percent of the population is at risk in American wars, American politicians are said to feel free to send the military to fight wasteful, unwinnable, and costly wars.

The preference is apparently for conscription, which would put more of the population at risk, and supposedly lead to fewer and wiser wars. “If only the politicians’ sons or daughters were forced to serve!” is the lament.

The model is always WWII, when over 12 million Americans were in uniform—more than 15% of the adult population of the time—and a much higher percentage of the adult male population.

The burden of fighting then was supposedly widely shared. The contrast: today, fewer than 1.4 million men and women are active-duty military, and another 800,000+ are in the reserves. Given that there are about 200 million Americans between the ages of 18-65, this is just over 1% of the relevant population.

There are several problems with the argument.

Fifteen percent of 200 million would produce a military of 30 million—a bit large, one must say, for less than all-out global warfare. But even 2% produces a military of four million people; a third larger than the military on active duty during the 1960s, when the Soviet Union was being confronted globally, while a major war was being fought in Vietnam.

Each year, about four million Americans reach the age of 18. Currently, the American military needs fewer than 200,000 of them to volunteer for active duty or the reserves to maintain its numbers. With that pool, the military can insist on a high school education for enlisted personnel, and a college degree for officers. Avoided are the medically unfit, those with serious criminal records, and those who would chafe under the discipline required.

Of course, the argument isn’t that all of the age group should serve in the military. Rather it is that some form of public service should be required of all. But what would the government do with four million 18 year-olds each year?

Our hospitals, inner-city schools, and Native American reservations already have well-paid employees to do the necessary work. Political correctness would require women to face the same obligations as men. Who would be forced into the military or prison guard jobs? Could it be voluntary? Wouldn’t that be the same system we have now? Wouldn’t the rich and influential always find a way to make the service of their children career-enhancing or at least safe?

During the last year of the Second World War, there was a manpower crisis as the US found itself running out of infantry soldiers. The better-educated draftees were used in technical and support functions, or found their way into safe and draft-exempt civilian occupations.

During the Vietnam War, the draft—in effect only to feed the infantry fighting the war—was essentially voluntary as those who wanted to avoid fighting joined the Navy, found an easy disqualification, or fled the country. The current all-volunteer force allows people to choose their risk, and compensates them for it. Those who want to be in the most hazardous branches of the armed services are double or triple volunteers, having had to decide to join the military, and then having opted for its most dangerous jobs.

Some might say that all who do so are coerced by their poverty to be in the military, making the military a home for black people and others who are economically disadvantaged. African-Americans are indeed over-represented in the American military when compared to their percentage of the general population, but not of the prime relevant age group (18-24).

The military is an attractive employer, given its pay structure and post-career benefits. But minorities are over-represented in the non-combat occupations (medical services, transportation, administration, etc.); combat arms are predominantly white, attracting youths who see themselves as spending some post-high school time in an adventure-land with guns and as having no intention of making the military a career.

The volunteer military is actually better educated and less poor than the draft military, because it is smaller and more selective than the draft military. One third of American youth, heavily minority, do not complete high school, and thus make themselves largely ineligible for the military even if they wish to serve.

In fact, more than 1% of Americans are involved in America’s defense. In addition to the two plus million service personnel—the 1.4 million active duty and 800,000 plus in the reserve components—there are 800,000 plus civil service employees of the Department of Defense—people who work in military depots, defense laboratories, shipyards, and contract management offices—and five to six million (the exact number is not known) contract employees—people who build weapon systems, provide support services, and conduct defense related research.

This totals to 3-4% of the adult population. Add spouses and other family members, and you can see that not an insignificant portion of the American population is involved in defense.

One percent or eight, the interests of America’s military, defense civil servants, and defense contractors are not ignored by politicians. Bad wars aren’t the product of a military that is too easy to commit and too small to count politically. Rather, the bad wars are the result of America being the global policemen, seeking to guarantee the security of too many others—and creating the expectation that America will intervene in every dispute where force may be involved.

It isn’t that soldiers’ lives aren’t valued. Actually, the concern with their casualties has grown with time even after conscription was abolished. It is just that American presidents are expected to act—to do something when trouble starts in the Middle East, when North Korea rattles some sabers and when Russia tries to change its boundaries. Doing something often involves the deployment of ships, the use of soldiers as advisors, a missile strike, and the start of a bombing campaign. One thing leads to another, but rarely to a quick, easy victory.

A better criticism is that America has stopped paying for its wars. In the past, wars brought dedicated tax increases, and the sharing of burdens broadly among citizens—taxpayers and voters as well as the soldiers in the fight. But the global war on terror instead gave Americans tax cuts, deficits, and borrowing on a massive scale which was readily obtained from foreigners at low interest rates.

The domestic political constraints on the use of force are only casualties, and not a growing financial burden on taxpayers. The costs of wars are passed to future generations, those not yet with a vote. This is not a good development. Few citizens are warriors or need to be, but all should pay for their country’s wars.
   
 
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