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at least according to current fiction/fluff?

Is there a definitive point in time where we can point to an individual or group who started believing in the concept of the Omnissiah?

Or was this the Emperor again, seeding ideas into the Martian colonies to make way for his eventual arrival?

I don't think there is much definitely canon about this but a few things can be guessed from what is known. First (for those who don't know) The Machine God and the Omnissiah technically different things. The Machine God is a non physical entity and the Omnissiah is The Machine God in human form i.e. The Emperor. I think it was said the the machine cult started on mars during the Dark Age of tech but did not flourish until the age of strife when preserving the old knowledge became most important. Now after uniting Terra The Emperor's first stop was mars. By the time he got there the machine cult had taken over but as one can imagine this didn't mesh with the imperial truth, however they were still the best engineers and scientists he had available and they were right next door to the capital so missing them off and fighting a war was unwise so he made them an exception. And most likely to placate the priests someone (probably not the emperor) declared him the Omnissiah and The Emperor probably just bore it.

IIRC the HH book mechanus implies that the concept of the Omnissiah was planted in Mars culture centuries or milinnia earlier so that the emperor could show up and use it to gain control.

The Mechanicus sees the Emperor as the physical manifestation of the Machine God, similar to how Jesus was seen by many as the physical manifestation of the Christian God.
Except instead of dying on the cross and rising from the dead, he died on the Vengeful Spirit and rose to a higher form, with the help of old and sacred technology.

The Machine God as a concept though, has been around since pre-Strife, I believe.

BrianDavion wrote:
IIRC the HH book mechanus implies that the concept of the Omnissiah was planted in Mars culture centuries or milinnia earlier so that the emperor could show up and use it to gain control.

If that's the case... then the Emperor really IS the Omnissiah..... by virtue of the fact that he invented the role which he would end up playing.

My HH knowledge is spotty at best, but I wonder if there was ever a novel that went over the events of his first appearance on Mars.

We often see the...i guess you call them Theological controversies that erupt between the Ecclesiarchy and some break-away group that doesn't think the Emperor = the Omnissiah because I guess it makes a good story point.

But if i remember correctly - a lot of our little Red Priests on Mars actually did buy into the idea hook line and sinker.

Divine figures, whether we are speaking about Jesus, Buddha, et al. usually have to prove their divinity in some way....

I wonder what made the average Mechanicus member go gaga for the Emperor....

Mechanicum does cover the Emperor's first appearance on Mars. He showed up, all golden space ship and everything, and greeted them as an emperor. Then he 'healed' a Knight's gammy knee (no matter how often they replaced the parts, the knee kept acting up until Empy touched it) and was hailed the Omnissiah.



The rites and rituals of the Cult Mechanicus, however, originate from the War of Iron Men. The surviving engineers and technical types had a big meeting and decided to make backups of all their data to make sure that if there was another cataclysm, next time they wouldn't lose all their technology. One of the backups they made was to convert that knowledge into an oral tradition of stories and songs. The stories, over time, became parables, and the songs became hymns.

GW stole the idea from Asimov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

Fluffwise: Similar background as Asimov + some influences of the dragon. The emperor is an imposter / conqueror who is wrongly addressed to as the Omnissiah

 oldzoggy wrote:
GW stole the idea from Asimov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

"Seldon foresees the imminent fall of the Galactic Empire, which encompasses the entire Milky Way, and a dark age lasting 30,000 years before a second great empire arises. Seldon also foresees an alternative where the interregnum will last only one thousand years. "

What do they say about "nothing being original"? I knew the 41st millennium was a hodge podge of different Science Fiction and Fantasy backgrounds, but was unaware of Asimov's contribution.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Mechanicum does cover the Emperor's first appearance on Mars. He showed up, all golden space ship and everything, and greeted them as an emperor. Then he 'healed' a Knight's gammy knee (no matter how often they replaced the parts, the knee kept acting up until Empy touched it) and was hailed the Omnissiah.

Spoiler:

The end of the book reveals the machine-healing to be a power he stole from the Void Dragon.

The rites and rituals of the Cult Mechanicus, however, originate from the War of Iron Men. The surviving engineers and technical types had a big meeting and decided to make backups of all their data to make sure that if there was another cataclysm, next time they wouldn't lose all their technology. One of the backups they made was to convert that knowledge into an oral tradition of stories and songs. The stories, over time, became parables, and the songs became hymns.

Mechanicum covers his first 'official' visit to Mars. He was almost certainly there beforehand... if for no other reason than to lock the Void Dragon up. The Void Dragon acts as a kind of muse for the priesthood of Mars. Its dreams inspire creativity. It is heavily implied that the Emperor orchestrated this situation to create an ongoing source of tech for humankind. Of course, things kind of went south for the Emprah's plans during the Heresy.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Mechanicum does cover the Emperor's first appearance on Mars. He showed up, all golden space ship and everything, and greeted them as an emperor. Then he 'healed' a Knight's gammy knee (no matter how often they replaced the parts, the knee kept acting up until Empy touched it) and was hailed the Omnissiah.

Spoiler:

The end of the book reveals the machine-healing to be a power he stole from the Void Dragon.

The rites and rituals of the Cult Mechanicus, however, originate from the War of Iron Men. The surviving engineers and technical types had a big meeting and decided to make backups of all their data to make sure that if there was another cataclysm, next time they wouldn't lose all their technology. One of the backups they made was to convert that knowledge into an oral tradition of stories and songs. The stories, over time, became parables, and the songs became hymns.

Well i got the later part down, i just never knew if the idea of the Omnissiah was part of the original belief system of the Cult Mechanicus.

All indications seem to point to the Emperor just wedging the idea into their beliefs. If that is really the case, no wonder they hailed him the Omnissiah - he practically invented the role.

And he even hits all the "pull a miracle off" metric by what you are saying - he heals lame robots....probably a lot of other minor miracles off-screen as well.

So I guess

Style Points (Golden Spaceship, decking himself out as the Emperor of Mankind) + Eons worth of Knowledge since he's been around since the dawn of man + Miracles = Very willing Martian Public willing to believe he's the Omnissiah come to enlighten them all...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:
GW stole the idea from Asimov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

Ah - not surprised, they pulled so much from Foundation and Dune as it is..... Thanks for the real world assessment.

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
GW stole the idea from Asimov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

"Seldon foresees the imminent fall of the Galactic Empire, which encompasses the entire Milky Way, and a dark age lasting 30,000 years before a second great empire arises. Seldon also foresees an alternative where the interregnum will last only one thousand years. "

What do they say about "nothing being original"? I knew the 41st millennium was a hodge podge of different Science Fiction and Fantasy backgrounds, but was unaware of Asimov's contribution.

It is difficult to not borrow from older sci fi, the Asimov thing to the mechanicum is just far to spot on to not have been lifted. It also just makes sense, heck a whole lot of technicians today know how to say diagnose fixing an air conditioning unit determining the problem and replacing the bad part, but if you asked them why the refrigerant needs to be at a certain pressure window to work, or why when a liquid becomes a gas does it absorb heat energy they would not be able to give an answer.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Mechanicum does cover the Emperor's first appearance on Mars. He showed up, all golden space ship and everything, and greeted them as an emperor. Then he 'healed' a Knight's gammy knee (no matter how often they replaced the parts, the knee kept acting up until Empy touched it) and was hailed the Omnissiah.

he also appered on Mars EXACTLY under the conditions of a prophecy, one in which some of the circumstances where very specific, and also considered a little unlikely (a rain storm on mars for example) BTW I never saw where mechanium outright said he got his machine healing power from the void dragon, I m iss an outright statement or is that an inferance?I assumed it was some form of psykic power.. intreastingly the new technomancy power does allow for one to repair a vehicle.

It's not outright stated, but