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GW used to be known for a lot of things. White dwarf magazine used to promote many roleplaying games and had additional content for those games. It didnt used to be an egotistical ad rag that was all about them and their own products.
They also used to produce a wide variety of boardgames, many of which are award winning and/or were favorites from our youth. Even making partnerships with larger companies such as Milton Bradley. Their games could be found in Kmart type department stores.

Then they stopped at the turn of the century. Concentrating instead on their "core brands". Forgetting that these same boardgames were the reason many of us became customers of their miniatures to play their horribly written wargames to begin with.

After over a decade of wearing blinders, GW has returned to making boardgames again. Space Hulk returned once again to market at the end of 2009. Though its release seemed timed so that the trademark wouldnt expire due to lack of use. Then Dreadfleet being a speedbump in that plan, as their own hubris thought that GW cusgomers would buy anything that they produce.

But now, we are seeing more and more, with stated plans to reinstate games such as Blood Bowl back into production. Maybe Battle Fleet Gothic, Necromunda, Epic,.etc. will follow?

What do you think of this?
Is it just resources cannibalizing more models away from your favorite armies?
Or is it giving the company capital to make these models you want?
Are you just wargamers, or do you like to spread out your leisure time to other types of games and pursuits?
If you're just a wargamer, would you purchase boardgames that allow you to explore their universes in a different way?

It is absolutely great. Thanks to Space Hulk, I've got friends interested in 40k lore, and Deathwatch has proven to be pretty fun too.

I know plenty of hard-core board gamers and none of them are at all exited about GW's new stuff.

Compared to what's on the market, they get less for their money. Both in terms of game quality and miniatures. (the improved quality of the miniatures is lost on them).

They were momentarily excited to see Warhammer-quest coming back, until they saw the price tag. That just left them wanting to stick with FFG or Maintic's clones.

There's also the case that many board gamers don't have the miniature gamer attachment to LGSs. If they can't but it online at a discount, it might as well not exist.

GW makes pretty boring board games that have excellent models. If board games allow them to make unique models then that's cool, but they're not very good at "board game" part.

I think it's great, as a gamer who often lacks regular opponents or opponents who don't have their own armies/games. I like the pretty miniatures, and it gives me a chance to "sort of" play miniature games while not having to fully commit to painting multiple armies.

Also, it's not a bad deal as far as price goes (it's not great, but I'v seen worse deals).

For myself, I think its a great thing. For many reasons.

It shows a willingness to give the consumers what we have been asking for, at least minimally. I believe it will broaden interest in their "core brands" and offer those wargames more optionsin the future.
Even if you nevef plan on buying or playing them, more options to choose from is usually a good thing for companies to explore offering their consumerbase.

Their design chops arent the best, this is true. But there is nothing stopping GW from hiring freelancers to design a good game and producing it with their own ip and models slapped onto it, like any other boardgame producer does. I hope they will persue such an option in the future.
But silver tower does give me some hope in their original in house game designs.

I think the middle ground of producing boardgames that you can use your models in other games is a decent marketing strategy. While its true that the vast majority of boardgamers (myself included) would rather not have to assemble models prior to playing, these products offered by GW have been known for their assembly ingredient for awhile now, so most won't be shocked by this if they do choose to purchase after even cursory research of a game.

I have high hopes that if the mass market approach proves successful for GW again, that we will see a new version of games like warhammerquest in big box shops that only require clipping the model off the sprue prior to playing like we saw with heroquest. Something like "warhammer quest: aelfheim" or something. A new setting, but not quite as deluxe as silver tower in terms of model detail and a more reasonable msrp that would allow sale in those shops.

I'm glad they're doing so again,

but I think it's too soon to know if they're expanding their new customer reach, or just selling to people who already play/collect (or used to)

as to the complaints about the actual games most stand up reasonably well to the flood of new board games that come in each year (and have more 'stuff' if you're a modeller/gamer than most of them)

yes there haven't been any classics yet, but very few games ever hit that stage,

Their new games are nice, but if I didn't already play their miniature games I probably would be disappointed. As a way to get GW kits and play something other than 40k/AoS with them they're great. However, taken purely as board games they have a lot of issues:
-They're expensive for the contents inside
As has been stated, the quality of GW miniatures is lost on most board gamers, and even those who appreciate the detail won't often appreciate the price tag that comes with it.
-Often two-player only
Two-player games are a hard sell in my local board game group. They're used to 4-6+ player games.
-Support is released only in in WD
If you don't play one of GW's miniature games you may not know that White Dwarf even exists. Most board game companies don't put out additional rules for their games in magazines with limited distribution.
-The contents don't ever fit back in the box once you assemble the models
For most other board games, everything will fit back into the box for easy storage and transport. None of the GW board games I've seen are as self-contained. It's a minor quibble, but I think it shows GW still doesn't quite get what the board game crowd wants.

Back in the day, GW's boardgames served as a gateway into GW's tabletop games. They can do so again, but only if GW prices them at gateway prices. $100+ for a boardgame is generally a no-go, unless the reviews on, say, Boardgamegeek.com are spectacular.

I think you're mixing a few different things together and I don't think GW itself has actually returned to making proper boardgames.

1st. New GW Boardgames. GW has been creating boardgames but they're largely limited edition affairs aimed at hobbyists and really requiring glue and paint and extra storage space. For the most part they have simply counted on GW fans and have not had the quality of rules, storeability and replayability that the wider board game community desires and they tend to have a higher price point as well. Rainyday explains further above.

2nd. Re-releasing "Specialist" games. These are not board games. Further, they exist mostly in rumor at this point and there's no telling whether they will will be released as actual game systems or as single-box GW boardgames like the above.

3rd. The FFG factor. GW universe board games, card games and RPG's aren't gone, they're simply being produced by a company that knows what it is doing. Not all of FFG's GW IP games have been stellar, but they've got a good track record of new games and re-releasing games from GW's past, some unchanged, some updated. If it's a proper non-miniature GW game that you want, your best bet is to head here:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/#/universe

 Lorek wrote:
I think it's great, as a gamer who often lacks regular opponents or opponents who don't have their own armies/games. I like the pretty miniatures, and it gives me a chance to "sort of" play miniature games while not having to fully commit to painting multiple armies.

Also, it's not a bad deal as far as price goes (it's not great, but I'v seen worse deals).

Agreed completely. I've not played 40k since 5th edition and have no plans to either.
I got tired of the list building and arguments of templates and the latest codex stuff.
I bought or traded into Execution Force, B@C and Deathwatch Overkill and they're all a blast.
They have missions with pre-set forces and layouts so you can get down to the business of actually playing a game.

Got my eye on Silver Tower next. It looks really impressive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Back in the day, GW's boardgames served as a gateway into GW's tabletop games. They can do so again, but only if GW prices them at gateway prices. $100+ for a boardgame is generally a no-go, unless the reviews on, say, Boardgamegeek.com are spectacular.

I'm curious to see how Lost Patrol will fare.
It's one of their cheaper offerings so far BUT it contains stuff that GW players already likely have or have low demand for, comparatively.
I've also watched the game play and it's not something I'll be picking up, most likely.

My concern is GW will read any poor sales there as an endorsement that the community prefers the $150-$165 games instead of people have less interest in an exceptionally light game that doesn't feature cool releases/re-releases of stuff with high appeal (30k in Calth and GSC in DWOK).

If only their boardgame prices were in line with the rest of the world.

Seems like many people just buy the "boardgame" for the miniatures being a bit cheaper for whichever system they currently play and rarely bother with the game that comes in the box alongside those sprues.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Back in the day, GW's boardgames served as a gateway into GW's tabletop games.

Some did and others didn't.

Talisman for example is only slightly connected to WHFB by the fact they both have a fantasy background. The Judge Dredd and Block Wars games were 2000 AD licences. Great games, both of them, but nothing to do with 40K except being an SF background.

I think GW ought to make a great game first, then see if it can be fitted into their WHFB or 40K universe, then worry last about trying to use it to recruit people to the tabletop.

Yes, there are some people who played Space Hulk and got excited by the back story of Death Watch terminator marines and so on. But lots of others just played it because it was a good game in itself.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
They can do so again, but only if GW prices them at gateway prices. $100+ for a boardgame is generally a no-go, unless the reviews on, say, Boardgamegeek.com are spectacular.

In relation to prices, I think keen GW fans will pay over the odds for a great set of figures they can use in their normak games of 40K/AoS, but for a lot of other people, a more basic set of figures that assembles quickly, doesn't need painting and packs back into the box, is more appropriate. This also would help keep prices down.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In relation to prices, I think keen GW fans will pay over the odds for a great set of figures they can use in their normak games of 40K/AoS, but for a lot of other people, a more basic set of figures that assembles quickly, doesn't need painting and packs back into the box, is more appropriate. This also would help keep prices down.

This is what I'm seeing over on Boardgamegeek. Lot of interest in Silver Tower, but apprehension about the cost of miniatures and especially the complexity of assembling them - but I think that's kind of where the genius is. Miniature games look really complex to build from the outside, but once you've actually put a few together, you know it isn't that bad. Silver Tower will get a bunch of board gamers to put together some high quality miniatures and see it isn't that big a deal - and I'm fairly certain that the miniatures in Silver Tower can be used to play a complete battle in Age of Sigmar, so what the heck, might as well try the game too... oh it isn't that complicated at all. Boy, that Maw-Crusher sure looks neat... Now, GW just needs to trick them into painting their first miniature, and the cycle becomes complete.

According to the recent BOLS rumor (taken with salt), GW will start including Silver Tower cards with AoS heroes, which if the game is any good, could result in people having a pretty sizeable AoS collection as a byproduct.

What is grabbing me currently is the scale creep. The new BB seems to be scaled larger so therefore incompatible with older teams and custom pitches, for example. Same with the upcoming Epic reboot - GW appear to be going down a larger scale so invalidating any existing stuff. Seems a deliberate move to force people to buy the new stuff. I don't blame them for doing it but I won't be rewarding them with my money for doing so. My only hope is the new stuff being released will cause prices of the old stuff to fall.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Seems like many people just buy the "boardgame" for the miniatures being a bit cheaper for whichever system they currently play and rarely bother with the game that comes in the box alongside those sprues.

IMO that's a pretty silly attitude to take when you've just forked out for all that stuff. I've found Space Hulk, Assassinorum, Deathwatch and BaC to be pretty great games.

 filbert wrote:
What is grabbing me currently is the scale creep. The new BB seems to be scaled larger so therefore incompatible with older teams and custom pitches, for example. Same with the upcoming Epic reboot - GW appear to be going down a larger scale so invalidating any existing stuff. Seems a deliberate move to force people to buy the new stuff. I don't blame them for doing it but I won't be rewarding them with my money for doing so.

Nah. It's probably just a case that bigger models can have more detail/skulls. Plus, the number of people with older models can't be large enough to worry about designing around their old collections. But, if it was to invalidate the old stuff, can you blame them? They put in a lot of effort to build a new game and then a bunch of people (dozens!) don't have to give them a single cent to play it? You got a decade or two with those models. You can't say you didn't get your money's worth.

I would be quite surprised if you can't play the new game rules with the old models. Are they going to change the type of players or someting? I mean, you have to have throwers and catchers and so on.

Had to vote "no".

When products like the Silver Tower are nearly three times the price of a D&D board game you aren't even at the races when it comes to competing for new blood by trying to tap the board gaming market.

Some people are saying these games are great value. Not compared to other board games but to the price of the individual miniatures they contain compared to "normal" GW miniature prices.

These games seem to be glorified miniature box-sets with rules tacked on the side. They aren't competing for new blood but designed to sell miniatures to the already converted.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 filbert wrote:
What is grabbing me currently is the scale creep. The new BB seems to be scaled larger so therefore incompatible with older teams and custom pitches, for example. Same with the upcoming Epic reboot - GW appear to be going down a larger scale so invalidating any existing stuff. Seems a deliberate move to force people to buy the new stuff. I don't blame them for doing it but I won't be rewarding them with my money for doing so.

Nah. It's probably just a case that bigger models can have more detail/skulls. Plus, the number of people with older models can't be large enough to worry about designing around their old collections. But, if it was to invalidate the old stuff, can you blame them? They put in a lot of effort to build a new game and then a bunch of people (dozens!) don't have to give them a single cent to play it? You got a decade or two with those models. You can't say you didn't get your money's worth.

Except your also buying the box to get the field, the dice, the rules, the tokens, the templates, etc - not just the miniatures.

"Moar detailz" as an excuse for bigger miniatures doesn't work when there are plenty of companies making fantasy football miniatures in 28mm that look amazing.

And you can keep any idea of "planned obsolescence" pertaining to miniature to yourself, thank you very much.

I've always thought the weird distorted dimensions of GW figures were deliberate to make them incompatible with historical and realistic fantasy/SF ranges from other manufacturers. The next logical step is for GW to make them incompatible with previous versions of themselves.

The great side benefit is that it's a lot easier to cram detail into such a small figure if it isn't so small any more. That's part of the reason for the awesome detail on Sigmarines. They're actually larger than SM Terminators.

Thing is, scale creep is not a new phenomenon as far as GW is concerned. Compare RT era marines to modern ones. Or an old Terminator to a new one. Compare 'old' WHFB chaos warriors to the new AoS ones (OK, they aren't directly analogous in that they are technically different worlds but still, the difference is clear). GW have been using built in obsolescence for years, whether we like it or not. Again, I don't blame them for doing so but that doesn't mean I have to like it, agree with it or reward it with my custom.

There is a huge BB following that have been managing for quite some time without GW when they dropped the game so there are a large number of people who would be interested in upgrading or refreshing their miniatures with new ones but will be unable to do so easily if the scale creep is noticeable (which I am sure it will be if AoS is anything to go by). The same is true of Epic players but to a lesser degree since the community is smaller; many existing people will be unable to add or blend new stuff into their armies. It's just all a bit frustrating really.

I own two, Dreadfleet which is nice, though was a gift as was too expensive to buy myself, and Chainsaw Warrior, a game I got on ebay and is older then I am (and having no miniatures).
That is a board game worthy of the title.

They're great for 40k players who want to split a box with a friend to beef up their army. As far as actual board games go, they're fairly uninteresting. Plenty of people have already pointed out the flaws. Things like settlers of catan will always be far better board games than what GW is producing. 95% of people who bought calth never played an actual game of it, they just wanted a cheap start to a 30k force. The assassin game doesn't sell at all. I honestly don't see them attracting the interest of many people that weren't already customers of GW.

As an ork player, if it isn't an ork release, I have no interest in buying it. But when it is a board game, I may buy it as the models have dual use... one of which is 'in armies' which I have no intention.

Did Marine players and Tyranid players buy Space hulk and integrate those models in their armies? Hell yeah they did.

Board games like this get models which may or may not justify individual packs at retail for a small audience in a much larger, more economical printing.

Tzzeench players get army models, board gamers get a variety of fun stuff and a good game, everyone wins.

I think it's good the GW have once again started looking outward

I can't help but feel the latest wave of board games is partly due to GW seeing how well FFG, CMoN etc etc big box games have been doing and GW wanting a slice of that pie back, having more or less given up since 00(ish)

I'm not sure it'll appeal to the hard-core Euro gamer sorts but having an all-in-one box product might sell okay, yep the prices are a bit high but not much higher than others, and I suspect with a bit of internet searching the prices are nearly on par

So let me get this straight, they change their stores from "Games Workshop" to "Warhammer" and then produce more "games" than they ever have.

My opinion is they also fit into 40k and allow for less expensive models: well done!

Having a means to play 40k light is a great alternative.

I hope these changes... "pay dividends" (not a pun, I am not sure what I did there).

Kilkrazy wrote:I've always thought the weird distorted dimensions of GW figures were deliberate to make them incompatible with historical and realistic fantasy/SF ranges from other manufacturers. The next logical step is for GW to make them incompatible with previous versions of themselves..

filbert wrote:Thing is, scale creep is not a new phenomenon as far as GW is concerned. Compare RT era marines to modern ones. Or an old Terminator to a new one. Compare 'old' WHFB chaos warriors to the new AoS ones (OK, they aren't directly analogous in that they are technically different worlds but still, the difference is clear). GW have been using built in obsolescence for years, whether we like it or not.

I think you two are both right. GW has a long history of up-sizing it's own minis both for obsolescence and market differentiation .

Old minis are still game-legal, but the creep is a pretty deliberate way to push folks toward newer figures. Also, from the very beginning, GW figures have been both bigger and more exaggerated in proportion and detail than the standard miniatures of the time. I think I've read from ex GW folks that it was both a way to be distinctive from other miniature lines and to make it easier to paint (back when they weren't quite so filigreed with detail). Of course the result is that there were always at least a few companies who would bulk up their figs to make them more GW'ish, and for whatever the reason, the creep has continued.

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