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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 02:24:54
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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No but I can if my quality of opponents ever increased.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 02:33:44
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Matt.Kingsley wrote:By your standards, probably.
I mean my Slaanesh Daemons army contains 3 vehicles you can't really kill with Boltguns, 1 MC and 1 FMC, a total of 6 Psykers (2 lvl 3s and 4 lvl 2s), 2-3 of which roll on Malefic to get summoning, with the rest rolling on Telepathy.
I don't consider it cheesy, and no one around here does either even though I typically win with it, but since it contains summoning, high amounts of psykers and units Boltguns can't kill, to you it probably is.
That's a strong list, not a cheesy list. It might be considered cheesy against a Black Templar list that has minimal to no Skyfire capabilities, but that's incredibly circumstantial, so this list is not overall cheesy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 04:03:35
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Furious Fire Dragon
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War Kitten wrote:
I understand that, but most people still wouldn't be willing to admit that they play a "cheesy" list. Even in a poll.
This paired with someones true definition of cheese. Eldar, crons spess mureens and tau are all strong, and all have potental to become cheese easily, but who says where the tipping point is?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 04:17:13
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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cosmicsoybean wrote: War Kitten wrote:
I understand that, but most people still wouldn't be willing to admit that they play a "cheesy" list. Even in a poll.
This paired with someones true definition of cheese. Eldar, crons spess mureens and tau are all strong, and all have potental to become cheese easily, but who says where the tipping point is?
Traditio, obviously. They know how "most people" think.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 06:10:55
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Pffft no. I think the closest I might come to cheese is fielding the less than optimal IG psyker formation just so I can see the look of disgust on a demon or eldar player's face at the sheer number of warp charges I have... and then proceed to be massacred.
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Vorradis 75th "Crimson Cavaliers" 8.7k
The enemies of Mankind may employ dark sciences or alien weapons beyond Humanity's ken, but such deviance comes to naught in the face of honest human intolerance back by a sufficient number of guns. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 07:14:02
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Jewelfox wrote:Traditio, obviously. They know how "most people" think.
I wish to re-emphasize, for the umpteenth time, that the purpose of this thread is not to attack anyone.
The inspiration for this thread is the fact that I possibly, though I do not know for sure, was about to play against someone online who was about to play Eldar + dark eldar allies, and I'd not faced this before.
Call it "cheese" if you want, or call it "combinations which we hear about primarily from online sources."
That's ultimately what the thread is about. A lot of people talk about using DE as a taxi service for Eldar, but I find myself wondering how popular this actually is.
I'm inclined to think that it's not as popular as online boards make it out to be.
The purpose of this thread is not to criticize your use of the Tau army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 07:18:50
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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My Eldar and Necron armies are considered to be cheesy here.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 07:21:09
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 08:12:32
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Your poll is not specific enough to be useful, even to you, and your stated reason for posting it is a non-sequitur. "How many of you self-identify as playing cheesy lists?" does not logically follow from "I wonder how popular DE taxis are," unless you are taking it for granted that everyone agrees with you that this is cheese. Without your having to explain it.
That doesn't seem to be the case, and there are a number of good reasons why.
Traditio wrote:The purpose of this thread is not to criticize your use of the Tau army.
Well, that's a relief.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/20 08:23:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 11:22:05
Subject: Re:Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Bounding Assault Marine
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I have my Salamander marine chapter that I play for 40k. The only allies I've ever used were the occasional Inquisitor or Vindicare assassin. I do admit that I have grav Centurions and sometimes use them, but have never done the libby conclave+tiggy or white scar hunter's eye bs to combine with them.
I thought I had a rather cheesy list at a 2000 point tourney I just went to with using a Gladius to get free transports. When I saw what I was up against at the tourney I chided myself for thinking I had brought anything close to resembling tournament cheese.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 11:26:05
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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I played mech guard since like 3rd edition. It turned pretty cheesy with 5th.
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Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
FAQs |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 11:40:37
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Sure. I will.
Eldar. Wraithknights. Warp Spiders. Double Iron Hands Chapter Masters best buddies.
Against the new and casual players I run pure Harlequins, though.
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"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 14:32:07
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Furious Fire Dragon
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Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 14:45:53
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I play Eldar. I also play local tournaments and win. Yes I play WKs & Scatterbikes. However I have never been denied a game because I am not considered a D-bag. In casual games I rarely bring a WK (or pure Eldar for that matter, often spending 1/3 of my points on GK or DE allies) and will gladly swap the Scatter lasers for Shuricannons. I recently won an unbound tourney using 3 WKs, a VSG, Farseer and all Scatterbikes. However, I only barely won. my last opponent actually beat me by 1 point, but I had enough points from previous matches to win overall. That opponent was playing 6, yes SIX! Dakka Tyrants. All my Bikes were dead in the first turn (it only took 2 Tyrants to down the shields) and my WKs couldn't do anything other than kill his dirt cheap Spore mine Troop thingies. So yes, 1 DakkaTyrant isn't that bad, 2 is pushing it but still ok. 6 it just nasty --
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/20 14:49:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:02:40
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Fixture of Dakka
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cosmicsoybean wrote:Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
How is it illegal? Wraithguard + Archon can go into a Wave Serpent right? Or have I missed something?
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:04:09
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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pm713 wrote: cosmicsoybean wrote:Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
How is it illegal? Wraithguard + Archon can go into a Wave Serpent right? Or have I missed something?
The thing was they were going into a raider because it's open-topped, so free d-templates while staying safe in a vehicle was the big complaint, afaik.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:07:43
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Nasty Nob
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ITT.
My army, not cheesy at all.
That guy that just tabled me? The amount of cheese he just force fed me is making my cholesteral hi and is giving me colon cancer.
That army I just trounced? He's a fungi he just needs to get good.
Feels like every arguement ever.
God forbid one person at the table is actually trying to win.
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I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:20:42
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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BossJakadakk wrote:pm713 wrote: cosmicsoybean wrote:Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
How is it illegal? Wraithguard + Archon can go into a Wave Serpent right? Or have I missed something?
The thing was they were going into a raider because it's open-topped, so free d-templates while staying safe in a vehicle was the big complaint, afaik.
Raider capacity is 10, WG are bulky, so only the WG can fit into a Raider. NO Archon.
If WG are in a Serpent, an Archon can fit, but cannot embark during deployment (via the FAQ for BBs). So no WWP Serpent.
However, WWP Archon + D-scythe WG without a transport is still viable and very scary.....it's also over 300pts and will most likely only kill 1 thing in a game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:23:48
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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Galef wrote: BossJakadakk wrote:pm713 wrote: cosmicsoybean wrote:Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
How is it illegal? Wraithguard + Archon can go into a Wave Serpent right? Or have I missed something?
The thing was they were going into a raider because it's open-topped, so free d-templates while staying safe in a vehicle was the big complaint, afaik.
Raider capacity is 10, WG are bulky, so only the WG can fit into a Raider. NO Archon.
If WG are in a Serpent, an Archon can fit, but cannot embark during deployment (via the FAQ for BBs). So no WWP Serpent.
However, WWP Archon + D-scythe WG without a transport is still viable and very scary.....it's also over 300pts and will most likely only kill 1 thing in a game.
Right. The major complaint was against people doing a thing that was illegal anyway, so it didn't even make sense, because that person couldn't be doing it. It's not as bad without doing it illegally. Still scary, but also vulnerable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:26:39
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pre-FAQ I always thought the standard combo was Wraithguard in a Raider (no Archon, because the Raider can Deep Strike by itself, you just have to hope for good scatter).
As for OP, no. I play Orks and Blood Angels (selling pretty much all my cheesy armies).
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:26:42
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Galef wrote: BossJakadakk wrote:pm713 wrote: cosmicsoybean wrote:Traditio wrote:
They probably are. But not for the purposes of my poll.
Again, I have in mind the combinations that people are constantly complaining about (e.g., webway portal + wraithguard or grav centurions + libby conclave).
PLEASE STOP THIS. It's very annoying to hear about people CONSTANTLY bitching about an army and how its so cheese, when they are obviously cheating.
How is it illegal? Wraithguard + Archon can go into a Wave Serpent right? Or have I missed something?
The thing was they were going into a raider because it's open-topped, so free d-templates while staying safe in a vehicle was the big complaint, afaik.
Raider capacity is 10, WG are bulky, so only the WG can fit into a Raider. NO Archon.
If WG are in a Serpent, an Archon can fit, but cannot embark during deployment (via the FAQ for BBs). So no WWP Serpent.
However, WWP Archon + D-scythe WG without a transport is still viable and very scary.....it's also over 300pts and will most likely only kill 1 thing in a game.
There is no FAQ. There is a draft but that doesn't mean anything until it's an official release.
Either way that's so recently done the complaining about the portalguard being illegal isn't right anyway.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:37:47
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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I know there have been other ways of utilizing the wraithguard with allies, it just seemed like wwp + raider + guard was the major actual complaint, I didn't really see people complaining about it being used other ways. And that combo of all 3 things was not able to actually be done.
I think I only saw a few comments talking about how raider still has ds on its own, or just grouping them with archon without transport, but those seemed to be presented as legal ways to get the desired effect of d-templates quickly being where you want them, rather than "omg cheese tfg"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 15:46:08
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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The worst offenders I could think of for cheese in my army is: A three man unit of Devastator Centurions, with grav cannons, footslogging with a single ML2 Terminator Librarian, fishing for Endurance if I can. Or a Captain (not Chapter Master) with Shield Eternal, relic blade or thunder hammer, and artificer armour (no bike). Or just a pair of Wyverns. None of them I class as cheesy, nor particularly bad. I could easily field a transport spam Razorback min-max list for my Marines, but I've never felt it necessary, and I prefer ten man squads anyways. I could take cheese, but I don't. I don't see why OP is asking for all sorts of cheese when they could instead said "How common is BLANK?" Specific, and far less likely to be taken offensively by some players.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/20 15:46:21
They/them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 17:01:55
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Galef wrote:I play Eldar. I also play local tournaments and win. Yes I play WKs & Scatterbikes. However I have never been denied a game because I am not considered a D-bag.
In casual games I rarely bring a WK (or pure Eldar for that matter, often spending 1/3 of my points on GK or DE allies) and will gladly swap the Scatter lasers for Shuricannons.
What DE units do you usually ally with your Eldar in casual games? Automatically Appended Next Post: bomtek80 wrote:I have my Salamander marine chapter that I play for 40k. The only allies I've ever used were the occasional Inquisitor or Vindicare assassin. I do admit that I have grav Centurions and sometimes use them, but have never done the libby conclave+tiggy or white scar hunter's eye bs to combine with them.
How did you move the grav centurions around?
I thought I had a rather cheesy list at a 2000 point tourney I just went to with using a Gladius to get free transports. When I saw what I was up against at the tourney I chided myself for thinking I had brought anything close to resembling tournament cheese.
Yeah, I don't think that free transports are even remotely cheesy. A free rhino for a 5 man marine squad, or a free razorback for a 10 man marine squad, are well within the bounds of what can be considered reasonable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/20 17:05:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 17:11:20
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Nothing cheesy about gladius. In fact in gladius I think you get just about what you pay for compared to Eldar and Tau. The only thing thats REALLY cheesy about it is everything gets OBJ secured and everyone gets ultra marine tactics for free. Even then - the list only wins due to time restrictions because most games don't go past turn 3 or 4.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 18:16:04
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Xenomancers wrote:Nothing cheesy about gladius. In fact in gladius I think you get just about what you pay for compared to Eldar and Tau. The only thing thats REALLY cheesy about it is everything gets OBJ secured and everyone gets ultra marine tactics for free. Even then - the list only wins due to time restrictions because most games don't go past turn 3 or 4.
The Gladius be itself isn't cheesy, but when you add Khan and ever Tac unit has a Grav cannon w/ Grav amp, it starts to get that way. Played a super competitive casual game a while back with my Eldar vs this and was tabled turn 2 because there was nowhere to turboboost without being Grav'd off the board. Not enough Scatterlasers to kill all those FREE Rhinos. Stuff in the Drop Pods managed to snipe any units I thought were "safe". I have now started adding an Inquisitor w/ servo-skulls to my Eldar list to stop them from getting into position before I have a chance to slow them down. Played a rematch and needless to say, the difference is night-n-day. Best 34pts I have ever spent --
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/20 18:17:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 18:24:08
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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I have lots of infantry, some Crisis suits, a Commander, Tetras, 2 Hammerheads, a Devilfish and a R'varna.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 19:25:08
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Galef wrote: Xenomancers wrote:Nothing cheesy about gladius. In fact in gladius I think you get just about what you pay for compared to Eldar and Tau. The only thing thats REALLY cheesy about it is everything gets OBJ secured and everyone gets ultra marine tactics for free. Even then - the list only wins due to time restrictions because most games don't go past turn 3 or 4.
The Gladius be itself isn't cheesy, but when you add Khan and ever Tac unit has a Grav cannon w/ Grav amp, it starts to get that way. Played a super competitive casual game a while back with my Eldar vs this and was tabled turn 2 because there was nowhere to turboboost without being Grav'd off the board. Not enough Scatterlasers to kill all those FREE Rhinos. Stuff in the Drop Pods managed to snipe any units I thought were "safe".
I have now started adding an Inquisitor w/ servo-skulls to my Eldar list to stop them from getting into position before I have a chance to slow them down. Played a rematch and needless to say, the difference is night-n-day. Best 34pts I have ever spent
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You sir need a seer council! Personally I think Las plas Razor with ether grav or plas matching combi on the marines is better - cost only 10 more points and it gives you much more effective firepower. If your spamming wraith-knights though I can see how that would give you trouble.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 19:54:43
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Douglas Bader
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Traditio wrote:Yeah, I don't think that free transports are even remotely cheesy. A free rhino for a 5 man marine squad, or a free razorback for a 10 man marine squad, are well within the bounds of what can be considered reasonable.
A belief that I'm sure has nothing to do with the fact that you play C: SM with lots of free transports...
Of course by your own "things people complain about a lot" standard for "cheese" free transports are cheese. And there's a legitimate point to that. The whole reason we have points at all is that each thing is supposed to have a point cost roughly equal to its power. Getting tons of points in free transports is essentially bringing a 1750 list to a 1500 point game. And how many times have you complained about people getting "extra" points by bringing Wraithknights? If a Wraithknight is cheese because it costs (in your opinion) 100 points less than it should then a Rhino or Razorback that costs zero points is certainly cheese!
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/20 20:12:11
Subject: Do you play a Cheesetastic army?
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Pious Palatine
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I think the biggest problem here is that cheese is generally a bad word among the 40k community. Taking an extremely min/maxed list into a game is considered poor form because the majority of games people play are beer and pretzels type games meant to be fun and showcase units that are well liked or newly painted or try weird combos or even just be goofy fun. Bringing double wraithknight scatpacks Warpspiders and a lynx to games like this defeat the purpose and make people feel bad.
For me, I have a fairly unique perspective because I play almost exclusively in tournaments, so cheese generally doesn't mean the same thing. Before adepticon, for example I managed to get 2.5 games in with the list I brought to practice and played 7 games total over the whole 2 days and that ratio is what I'm normally at.
Literally the fourth game of 40k I ever played (and the first game my buddy played) Was us taking sisters of battle and a dark vengeance box with a landraider against a wraithknight, triple scat pack, 3 hornet, Void Shield, some other thing, eldar with KDK cheese allies in team tournament. The other lists weren't quite as strong but yeah for a good long time I was 50/50 casual games to tournament games, now I would say it's almost 80% of games I've played have been tournaments.
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