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People are constantly talking about how GW should change their products, the only difference here is that this particular request is something you don't want to see.

The big difference is that people are generally speaking about introducing new factions, new units or new rules. They want new fluff based on what has already been written or new campaign rulebook.
These are what people ask in general. A very tiny proportion of them wants to retcon major aspects of the established background just to suit a twisted conception of man-woman equality.

Hopefuly the Next Space Marine codex will have a line or two about the creations of the space Marines explaining that the Emperor chose Men to become Astarties. And the MASTER OF MANKIND was not required to explain himself to anyone.
I'd be more excited for a whole new race than change because change. After ...30 years of lore. It's a little late. where was this 25 years ago. At any rate there have been fan chapters with female chapter masters. there was at least one with a massive blog back in the 90's. I think the chapter masters was called Tiger Raja or something close to that. If I recall they used Space Wolves chapter codex but used a white grey and black color set.
I can't recall any complainants about it either. that collection seemed huge to me.
I'd be absolutely ok with Female guardsman, more Eldar and Tau and even a whole new race or two.
Ironically Space Marines are basically Orks.
Except Orks reproduce.

 Ouze wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
Either way, you are a girl that 40k appealed to and the lack of marines with babyfeeders did not stop you from joining in.
In contrast, my wife joined me for painting sessions while I was trying to drum up interest, using Necromunda girls to give her something nicer than the orks she objected to but I'm now convinced she'll never find the game fun.

What was the problem, did her babyfeeders keep getting in the way?

Yes. It was terrible. Prized models thrown this-way and that with the merest gesture of her upper body to shatter against tiled floors, Terrain demolished flat as she leaned across the board, dice rolls obscured under perfect D cups. /sarcasm

There was just not enough story there in a wargame to keep her focus. I suspect an RPG may have fared better as you get a bit more time to flesh out context etc and establish character personalities and motives.
I did get her hooked on Game of Thrones and she's also enjoyed reading Hunger Games- a horrible fantasy world where women are ground into the dirt / a dystopian future with a brutal regime respectively. The difference between WHFB/40k and these is that 40k is a setting while they are character driven dramas.
Starwars is also character driven action/drama but she won't touch that with a 10 foot baby pole- I'm inclined to think hungergames is 'stealth' scifi as it has gotten under a lot of radars so to speak.

Coming this fall!

In a world full of over priced plastic miniatures, people loose their gak about wanting plastic tits on their models.

This is...."Pointless."

Sarcasm aside. i think some people have pointed out why some races dont have female models at all, IE SM, and Orks.

The only races that really can have female models in them, that dont already would be guard, and maybe tau, i dont know tau social structure via their lore, so i cant speak on it.

But the problem as to why GW cant/wont make female guard at this time, its not cost effective. They would need to add another spru to the IMP guards box, whos only additons would be slimmer faces, and tits on the models, and then probably hike the prices by 5 or 10 bucks just for plastic boobs. I would much rather have that money go to either more units in the box, or more options in the box, no plastic boobs on my models.

And at the end of the day, no one is going to notices the 32 mm boobs any way, because its going to get blasted off the table into oblivion. So its a nice thought, but honestly probably not going to happen because its not price effective to make, for such a small group requesting it, and its honestly, inb4 hate, a stupid request. If you really want female guard, just model them, its a lot more fun to model it and make it yours then just using pre molded sprues.

As for necrons, i did not know there were female ones, but from the lore i do know, it sounds kinda dumb any way, they were all put inside metal robot bodies by the C'tan, why would they try and give said robots genders? Again, i think its a silly request to ask for plastic roboob.

That said, i would not be apposed to GW making a female spru pack for imp guard with said plastic boobs on them, i dont dont want to see it added by default to the imp guard boxes, hiking the prices, for a feature a small group want/ actually care about.

I'd dig some female options for regimental specialists, especially primaris psykers / astropaths.

This is the only primaris psyker model GW has:



It's an alright model but if you have three primaris psykers in your army then it gets a bit samey.

There's no question.

Female Space Marines do not exist and cannot exist. End of story. Finished.
Sisters of Battle are the closest you will get, and stop trying to make "gender equality" a thing with Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SolarCross wrote:
I'd dig some female options for regimental specialists, especially primaris psykers / astropaths.

This is the only primaris psyker model GW has:

Spoiler:

It's an alright model but if you have three primaris psykers in your army then it gets a bit samey.

Then buy a box of Flagellants and convert some up. It isn't hard and it's a cheap way to do Psykers.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Then buy a box of Flagellants and convert some up. It isn't hard and it's a cheap way to do Psykers.

Flagellants might work as ministorum priests but I don't really see them as psykers.

Actually i just found this model by a different company:



that would do very well as a psyker.

 Weboflies wrote:
Do you know what else was originally a WD article? The story of the Horus Heresy was originaly a White Dwarf article, and The Fall of the Eldar was originally a White Dwarf article.

And both of those I can give you precise quote of the 6th ed rulebook mentioning them. Horus Heresy on page 160 of the French 6th ed rulebook (at least, certainly a dozen other place but it's literally the first page that my book opened to…) and the fall on page 205 of the same book.
They are mentioned in the rulebook, and the codex. They really matter, and are put forward by GW. Unlike the female marine one. That is why the question keep popping up on forums. If that thing about marines only being male was actually common fluff, as detailed as the Horus Heresy (a whole series of books on it, and a full game with more miniatures than the whole Sisters of Battle range), people wouldn't keep on making this thread.

 Weboflies wrote:
There's also endless and absolutely unbroken continuity of 30 years of Space Marines 100% consistently being described in EXCLUSIVELY male terms. They address each other as "brother", they are Known as the "sons" of the Primarchs, and thereby, the Emperor.

Which is the usual English way of referencing groups than include men, even if they include women too…

 Weboflies wrote:
My underwear analogy, just like everything else that's the slightest bit sexual, and that could in any way relate to women, seems to have offended you.

Nah, was not offended, just thought it was a terrible analogy.

 Weboflies wrote:
You want to tell people who play Space Marines what their Army should look like. It's not your place to do that any more than it's my place to tell a woman's underwear manufacturer that they're sexist if they don't make something with room in it for my testicles.

I can see why there are male and female underwear, and why both are different. I have more trouble understanding why there must be different wargames for men and women though…

 Weboflies wrote:
You know, that took way too long to write, and that's my fault, but in retrospect, the moment I realized your signiature reads:
"The views expressed in the above post are my own views and unless stated otherwise I do not, in any way, shape or form, speak for or on the behalf of Games Workshop."
I should have realized I was dealing with someone who cannot be reasoned with.

I mean, you don't even buy their products anymore, and even disreagarding that, it's supposed to be in question as to whether or not you speak for them?

Seriously, what is your deal?

It's a parody of a signature from another user. It's meant to be a joke. It's funny because there is no reason for anyone to assume that I am speaking on behalf of GW. Jokes are way less funny when you explain them…


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RazgrizOne wrote:

People are constantly talking about how GW should change their products, the only difference here is that this particular request is something you don't want to see.

The big difference is that people are generally speaking about introducing new factions, new units or new rules. They want new fluff based on what has already been written or new campaign rulebook.
These are what people ask in general. A very tiny proportion of them wants to retcon major aspects of the established background just to suit a twisted conception of man-woman equality.

Yeah, I get it now. The analogy works because asking the introduction of a new faction is not like asking a restaurant to make a new meal.
Or possibly Peregrine was right, and the problem is mainly that you don't like the request.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...and you're still avoiding the question again.

What was the question again?
Ahah, just kidding. The short answer was: I wouldn't mind. The long answer, you'll have to search it.

So you'd be okay with having males in the Sisters Of Battle army? Boy, you've lost touch with how the fluff works in the crusade of social justice.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Boy, you've lost touch with how the fluff works in the crusade of social justice.

Sure. Except for the part about how I explained what was great about the Decree Passive and that I would still like to see represented by something else.
Not having a problem with a retcon ≠ losing touch with the fluff.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Boy, you've lost touch with how the fluff works in the crusade of social justice.

Sure. Except for the part about how I explained what was great about the Decree Passive and that I would still like to see represented by something else.
Not having a problem with a retcon ≠ losing touch with the fluff.

So you'd like to see it except the fluff doesn't allow it... huh. That sounds familiar.

Wanting a specific retcon ≠ not having a problem with a specific retcon ≠ losing touch with the fluff.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Wanting a specific retcon ≠ not having a problem with a specific retcon ≠ losing touch with the fluff.

Wanting the existence of female Space Marines is definitely equivelant to losing touch with the fluff.

Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Then buy a box of Flagellants and convert some up. It isn't hard and it's a cheap way to do Psykers.

Flagellants might work as ministorum priests but I don't really see them as psykers.

Actually i just found this model by a different company:

Spoiler:

that would do very well as a psyker.

Have you actually read the descriptions on Sanctioned Psykers?

They tend towards being wretches in ill-fitting robes or rags, corralled forward into battle by their Commissariat handlers.
Flagellants definitely work. You just seem to want all of your Sanctioned Psykers(read: Wyrdvane Psykers) to look like the Primaris Psyker; a Psyker who is powerful enough of a resource to be treated like an actual person rather than a weapon.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

Defending one line from Creation is a Space Marine that has defined what a Space Marine is for thirty years. Just because it isn't said explicitly elsewhere does not mean it isn't true. Cite one BL book that has stated the existence of female Space Marines and there won't be an argument, but there isn't a book that has stated their existence. You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy. You should bring your argument to people who aren't so adamant about their fluff.

He was talking about Primaris psykers specifically though, Kan. His initial complaint was that many of the same monopose model gets, well, samey.

 Ashiraya wrote:
He was talking about Primaris psykers specifically though, Kan. His initial complaint was that many of the same monopose model gets, well, samey.

And in either case, you can convert them from Flagellants.

You want to complain about how "the same monopose model gets, well, samey"? Then figure something out rather than just running to some crummy 3rd party alternative which looks like a reject from a bad anime.

Hell, converting your Wyrdvanes from Flagellants means that (gasp) you can use the three Sanctioned Psyker models as alternative Primaris Psykers.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

Defending one line from Creation is a Space Marine that has defined what a Space Marine is for thirty years. Just because it isn't said explicitly elsewhere does not mean it isn't true. Cite one BL book that has stated the existence of female Space Marines and there won't be an argument, but there isn't a book that has stated their existence. You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy. You should bring your argument to people who aren't so adamant about their fluff.

While I do not mind Marines staying all male, the argument that adding females would destroy what they are is ridiculous. They are so augmented they are not really human anymore.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

Defending one line from Creation is a Space Marine that has defined what a Space Marine is for thirty years. Just because it isn't said explicitly elsewhere does not mean it isn't true. Cite one BL book that has stated the existence of female Space Marines and there won't be an argument, but there isn't a book that has stated their existence. You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy. You should bring your argument to people who aren't so adamant about their fluff.

While I do not mind Marines staying all male, the argument that adding females would destroy what they are is ridiculous. They are so augmented they are not really human anymore.

In their current iteration, I would not like to see female Space Marines. Now, if we made them more like Sigmarines and angelic and all, rather than offspring of the Emperor, I would be fine.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

Defending one line from Creation is a Space Marine that has defined what a Space Marine is for thirty years. Just because it isn't said explicitly elsewhere does not mean it isn't true. Cite one BL book that has stated the existence of female Space Marines and there won't be an argument, but there isn't a book that has stated their existence. You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy. You should bring your argument to people who aren't so adamant about their fluff.

While I do not mind Marines staying all male, the argument that adding females would destroy what they are is ridiculous. They are so augmented they are not really human anymore.

So why is it so important to add females to their ranks?

I mean, they would be so augmented that they are not really female anymore.

It's a non-issue. This same topic gets done and done and done and done, and it's always the same argument that boils down to "I want female Space Marines because I want female Space Marines".

Sisters of Battle get brought up, argument of "But they're NOT SPACE MARINES!" gets trotted out.

Circle around to a mod closing the thread because of arguments, wait a few months and the cycle begins anew.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hum no.

Defending the one line from Creation of a Space Marine as such an important part of SM identity is losing touch with what makes the fluff great.

Defending one line from Creation is a Space Marine that has defined what a Space Marine is for thirty years. Just because it isn't said explicitly elsewhere does not mean it isn't true. Cite one BL book that has stated the existence of female Space Marines and there won't be an argument, but there isn't a book that has stated their existence. You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy. You should bring your argument to people who aren't so adamant about their fluff.

While I do not mind Marines staying all male, the argument that adding females would destroy what they are is ridiculous. They are so augmented they are not really human anymore.

But, by that logic wouldn't making them female just be a totally moot point, and thus not add anything? If they are beyond human that gender doesn't matter...then...I'm not sure I see any reason to bother in the first place. :( If they are all just faceless, genderless beings...then really, none of them are male or female.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
He was talking about Primaris psykers specifically though, Kan. His initial complaint was that many of the same monopose model gets, well, samey.

And in either case, you can convert them from Flagellants.

You want to complain about how "the same monopose model gets, well, samey"? Then figure something out rather than just running to some crummy 3rd party alternative which looks like a reject from a bad anime.

Hell, converting your Wyrdvanes from Flagellants means that (gasp) you can use the three Sanctioned Psyker models as alternative Primaris Psykers.

Wyrdvanes are not the same thing as Primaris Psykers. GW does have 3 different wyrdvanes, though even then that gets samey if you were running the Psykana Division from the Mont'ka book as that requires as a minimum 15 wyrdvanes...

I wasn't really complaining, just I like options, especially options that don't require extensive kitbashing. I'm not digging at GW for not providing those options because I do get that even their resources are limited in comparison with everything the 40k game allows.

That is where the smaller 3rd party companies are great as they can help fill out the range of models available.

Also i have to say i really don't see flagelants as a good base for either wyrdvanes or primaris. Priest yes probably, but not psykers. The flagelants are kind of buff, angry, aggressive crazy.

Whereas Wyrdvanes are weedy, sad and tormented.

Primaris are less weedy, sad and tormented but still they are not really buffed religious maniacs. They are more like "space wizards" not "space cleric".

 Kanluwen wrote:
So why is it so important to add females to their ranks?

Elephants are not humans and they have genders and sexes too.

Space Marines are profoundly different, this is true, but some like women as well to have the 'big buff and in superarmour' archetype. I know I do, I just don't want that from Marines in particular - I respect that others might.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy.

I cannot even tell you if you making a in-universe argument (“The Imperium would see female SM as heresy”) or an out-universe argument (“A retcon introducing female Space Marines would be heresy to my eyes”).

Do we really need more SM models though? There is already a massive range of marines. How about GW gives some love to the guard? The best place for some more human female models would be guard regimental specialists:

Commissars (lord & regular), astropaths, officers of the fleet, masters of ordnance, primaris psykers, wyrdvane psykers, ministorum priests.

Apart from the existing commissars all the other regimental specialist models are very old, metal and very few and so quite ready for an expanded and updated range. Also unlike homeworld flavoured guard, like tallarns, vostroyans, steel legion, cadian they are models that will be common to all guard regiments which makes them more widely saleable.

Best of all more female regimental specialists instead of lady marines won't require a massive ret con that will probably deeply annoy about half GW's customer base.

I'll also say that even if you get your ret-con turning a 60kg human female into 400kg (naked) space marine and then suiting her up in power armour will result in a model that just looks like any other space marine. So you don't even need new models for that. Just buy this:

And change his name from Ezekial to Ezekialla or something and you are done.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Boy, you've lost touch with how the fluff works in the crusade of social justice.

Sure. Except for the part about how I explained what was great about the Decree Passive and that I would still like to see represented by something else.
Not having a problem with a retcon ≠ losing touch with the fluff.

Yes it does. Part of that decree is what makes the setting dark. Looking for a loophole just so that you have some military strength is pretty out there, just as the creation of a Space Marine is.

Nobody has an issue with more female models or SoB getting a reboot, but you want to change the fluff of two armies because of bad reasoning.

 SolarCross wrote:
Do we really need more SM models though?

Maybe then, as you suggested, just add SC (or characters with no rules) that have female pronouns, and leave the female SM with helmets?

 SolarCross wrote:
How about GW gives some love to the guard? The best place for some more human female models would be guard regimental specialists:

Commissars (lord & regular), astropaths, officers of the fleet, masters of ordnance, primaris psykers, wyrdvane psykers, ministorum priests.

I'd love that. And some rank and file guards too.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nobody has an issue with more female models or SoB getting a reboot, but you want to change the fluff of two armies because of bad reasoning.

I don't want to change the fluff for the SoB. I am not against it either. And yeah, the byzantine ways of the Imperium is exactly the thing I mentioned earlier as something I would like to see illustrated in some other way if the Decree Passive as we knew it was retconned. Because that's the interesting part, while Sisters being all-female is just whatever…

Why are you so insistent that a game that's a grimdark parody of a different time period, be held to the relatively young standards of modern life? The army that's based on monastic groups and religious knightly orders that were only men, now needs women because political correctness? Not only does that miss the point of the army's fluff and inspiration, it's just stupid. It's the same idea as demanding the story of king arthur to officially be rewritten to include more female knights at the round table. Not only does this continue the stupid trend of holding ALL things no matter the time period or inspiration to our modern standards, AND it continues to move the game further away from the purposefully grimdark setting. "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war... and shoe-horned in gender equality to make people feel better"


Beyond that point, more female models: Sure, ignoring that in a perfect world, they would look nearly indistinguishable once they are in their gear, more female models in the IG army, new SOB models, and other such things would be great! (Ignoring the inevitable PC backlash, because we all know it would be there since this female-space marine post gets posted so often)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You cannot accept the fact that the fluff has said time and time again that female Space Marine can never exist and their existence would be heresy.

I cannot even tell you if you making a in-universe argument (“The Imperium would see female SM as heresy”) or an out-universe argument (“A retcon introducing female Space Marines would be heresy to my eyes”).

I am making both arguments.