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Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 Azreal13 wrote:
Although I don't think price is, in isolation, a massive issue, but rather it's distorted through the lens of crappy rules.


This all over. The kits they make are, in the main, quite nice but eye wateringly expensive. Combine that with, lets face it, rather crap and cumbersome rules still put a lot of people off. They definitely need to tighten up the rules for both systems and make it an attractive proposition.
   
Made in gb
Tough Treekin




Being primarily an AoS forum visitor, have to say the increase in revenue from the North American retail arm was surprising.
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






AoS is doing well and getting better then. Jives with my anecdotal experience, really happy that the game is picking up steam. People are talking a lot more about it, lots of new people coming in and the online chatter is much more positive at this point. Im convinced it'll just keep going up with the amount of effort and community involvement GW has been doing lately. Great news!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 09:55:33


 
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain



Welwyn Garden City, Herts

Apparently the Telegraph has GW tipped as a potential share to buy in today's paper:

Wednesday newspaper share tips: Games Workshop, PZ Cussons
Wed, 27th Jul 2016 13:07
(ShareCast News) - Investors looking for a haven from sterling's post-Brexit vote nadirs could do worse than Games Workshop, which The Telegraph's Questor columns suggests as a potential 'Buy'.

It said the "cheep and cheerful" outfit might have been overlooked by the market, noting revenues had recovered at the tabletop games maker since end-2015.

"Couple with strong cash generation and healthy overseas sales, Games Workshop is an enticing, if risky play," asserted the column.

The outfit has pumped out figurines to a loyal customer base since the 1970s, and yet still received scant analyst coverage in the austere halls of the City.

Games Workshop accrued about 72% of its sales overseas, and had a domestically focused cost base.

"A weaker pound could boost profits beyond the expectation-busting £16.9m achieved in the year to May 29," wrote Questor.

"The company appears to be making good progress in selling its intellectual property to video-game developers, boosting royalty income from £1.5m to £5.9m in its most recent results."

The column noted that this revenue stream would inevitably involve a certain amount of lumpiness, ultimately leading to volatility in share price.

It further added that Games Workshop was wrestling with a secular threat -- it was reliant on a generation of loyalists who, as they have matured, have been able to absorb increasing prices forever.

"They will not be around forever," Questor said.

Thus, Games Workshop's challenge was to recruit a new wave of younger, less affluent customers going forward.

"To overcome these hurdles, management must be careful not to get stuck in a fantasy world of their own," wrote the column, adding it believed the shares possessed upside potential.

   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Mymearan wrote:
AoS is doing well and getting better then.
We really have no basis for making an argument either way. Too many things occur over the course of a financial year to pin anything down unless GW gave us an actual breakdown, which I don't think they ever will.
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

richred_uk wrote:
Apparently the Telegraph has GW tipped as a potential share to buy in today's paper:

Wednesday newspaper share tips: Games Workshop, PZ Cussons
Wed, 27th Jul 2016 13:07
(ShareCast News) - Investors looking for a haven from sterling's post-Brexit vote nadirs could do worse than Games Workshop, which The Telegraph's Questor columns suggests as a potential 'Buy'.

It said the "cheep and cheerful" outfit might have been overlooked by the market, noting revenues had recovered at the tabletop games maker since end-2015.

"Couple with strong cash generation and healthy overseas sales, Games Workshop is an enticing, if risky play," asserted the column.

The outfit has pumped out figurines to a loyal customer base since the 1970s, and yet still received scant analyst coverage in the austere halls of the City.

Games Workshop accrued about 72% of its sales overseas, and had a domestically focused cost base.

"A weaker pound could boost profits beyond the expectation-busting £16.9m achieved in the year to May 29," wrote Questor.

"The company appears to be making good progress in selling its intellectual property to video-game developers, boosting royalty income from £1.5m to £5.9m in its most recent results."

The column noted that this revenue stream would inevitably involve a certain amount of lumpiness, ultimately leading to volatility in share price.

It further added that Games Workshop was wrestling with a secular threat -- it was reliant on a generation of loyalists who, as they have matured, have been able to absorb increasing prices forever.

"They will not be around forever," Questor said.

Thus, Games Workshop's challenge was to recruit a new wave of younger, less affluent customers going forward.

"To overcome these hurdles, management must be careful not to get stuck in a fantasy world of their own," wrote the column, adding it believed the shares possessed upside potential.


It's got an 8.8% yield and is going to benefit from the crashing GBP, whilst may have difficulty staying around long term. So it makes an ideal, but risky, short-term investment; get a few years of dividends and then sell it off before it tanks and you should be laughing.

I'd be willing to throw money at it for a year or 2 before bottling it.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




So just me reading the numbers:

Operating profit virtually hasn't changed between last year and this year. However removing royalties from that operating profit puts this year down by approximately £4 million. Operating profit being their core pursuits (miniatures/ books sales - expenditure on raw materials/product production/salaries/other foreseeable costs directly linked to these activites).

Therefore, you can conclude that their business as a whole is doing OK, or as good as last year anyway, but they aren't making as much money through selling books and miniatures.

If that's fundamentally wrong let me know, but I think that's pretty much the case. Any claims that AoS have sold badly can't really be substantiated since there's no distinction between their ranges.
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

richred_uk wrote:
Apparently the Telegraph has GW tipped as a potential share to buy in today's paper:

Wednesday newspaper share tips: Games Workshop, PZ Cussons
Wed, 27th Jul 2016 13:07
(ShareCast News) - Investors looking for a haven from sterling's post-Brexit vote nadirs could do worse than Games Workshop, which The Telegraph's Questor columns suggests as a potential 'Buy'.

It said the "cheep and cheerful" outfit might have been overlooked by the market, noting revenues had recovered at the tabletop games maker since end-2015.

"Couple with strong cash generation and healthy overseas sales, Games Workshop is an enticing, if risky play," asserted the column.

The outfit has pumped out figurines to a loyal customer base since the 1970s, and yet still received scant analyst coverage in the austere halls of the City.

Games Workshop accrued about 72% of its sales overseas, and had a domestically focused cost base.

"A weaker pound could boost profits beyond the expectation-busting £16.9m achieved in the year to May 29," wrote Questor.

"The company appears to be making good progress in selling its intellectual property to video-game developers, boosting royalty income from £1.5m to £5.9m in its most recent results."

The column noted that this revenue stream would inevitably involve a certain amount of lumpiness, ultimately leading to volatility in share price.

It further added that Games Workshop was wrestling with a secular threat -- it was reliant on a generation of loyalists who, as they have matured, have been able to absorb increasing prices forever.

"They will not be around forever," Questor said.

Thus, Games Workshop's challenge was to recruit a new wave of younger, less affluent customers going forward.

"To overcome these hurdles, management must be careful not to get stuck in a fantasy world of their own," wrote the column, adding it believed the shares possessed upside potential.
At least it's not just us dakkanaughts who think GW is going a little off it's rocker. And by a little, I mean £250 is a "small scale start" to 40k.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
AoS is doing well and getting better then.
We really have no basis for making an argument either way. Too many things occur over the course of a financial year to pin anything down unless GW gave us an actual breakdown, which I don't think they ever will.


From page 6 of the financial report:
"we finished the year with sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar at a higher rate than Warhammer has enjoyed for several years"

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Which you've interpreted exactly as was intended.

The reality is that WHFB sales could have comprised 5% of total revenue and AOS 5.1% and that statement would be factually true yet functionally irrelevant.

Read any non financial information in the report as a propaganda, not as an objective assessment.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




frankr wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
AoS is doing well and getting better then.
We really have no basis for making an argument either way. Too many things occur over the course of a financial year to pin anything down unless GW gave us an actual breakdown, which I don't think they ever will.


From page 6 of the financial report:
"we finished the year with sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar at a higher rate than Warhammer has enjoyed for several years"



So Fantasy sold $10 000. Age of Sigmar Sold $10 500. Just making numbers up but this can be the case as well. Without numbers that quote means nothing. AoS could be just as bad as Fantasy was doing but better. Is $500 more doing better? What I don't see in this quote is AoS is doing amazing. I don't see AoS is doing great, good, well or satisfactory. All I see is AoS is doing better than Fantasy. AoS can still be doing very poorly but better than Fantasy.

What amazes me though IF AoS is doing well, then that would mean 40K is doing poorly. Not surprising since they didn't get much of a release this year. Another amazing thing is, IF AoS is doing poorly but better than Fantasy, that would mean 40K is still doing great even though not much came out for it. So so many ways of looking at this without the numbers.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






richred_uk wrote:
Apparently the Telegraph has GW tipped as a potential share to buy in today's paper:

Wednesday newspaper share tips: Games Workshop, PZ Cussons
Wed, 27th Jul 2016 13:07
(ShareCast News) - Investors looking for a haven from sterling's post-Brexit vote nadirs could do worse than Games Workshop, which The Telegraph's Questor columns suggests as a potential 'Buy'.

It said the "cheep and cheerful" outfit might have been overlooked by the market, noting revenues had recovered at the tabletop games maker since end-2015.

"Couple with strong cash generation and healthy overseas sales, Games Workshop is an enticing, if risky play," asserted the column.

The outfit has pumped out figurines to a loyal customer base since the 1970s, and yet still received scant analyst coverage in the austere halls of the City.

Games Workshop accrued about 72% of its sales overseas, and had a domestically focused cost base.

"A weaker pound could boost profits beyond the expectation-busting £16.9m achieved in the year to May 29," wrote Questor.

"The company appears to be making good progress in selling its intellectual property to video-game developers, boosting royalty income from £1.5m to £5.9m in its most recent results."

The column noted that this revenue stream would inevitably involve a certain amount of lumpiness, ultimately leading to volatility in share price.

It further added that Games Workshop was wrestling with a secular threat -- it was reliant on a generation of loyalists who, as they have matured, have been able to absorb increasing prices forever.

"They will not be around forever," Questor said.

Thus, Games Workshop's challenge was to recruit a new wave of younger, less affluent customers going forward.

"To overcome these hurdles, management must be careful not to get stuck in a fantasy world of their own," wrote the column, adding it believed the shares possessed upside potential.


I like to imagine Roundtree following Kirby, trying to get his attention all day. Every time Kirby glaces his way Roundtree is just standing there holding up this article he's clipped out of the paper, huge smug grin on his face waiting for Kirby to respond to it.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut







Well, the report seems to be in line with the last few, with them doing just a little worse in gaming sales, yet propped up by IP sales.

It's really too bad, I was hoping it would be much worse for GW. I'd also assume the next report in 6 months will be similar. I don't think anything is really gonna change till we see how the Specialist ranges do at launch, and if the next edition of 40k either craters or soars.

At least Kirby's insane ramblings are still in there and still fun to read!

God sends meat, the devil sends cooks 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

It seems on the surface GW is slowly turning the ship about, but it has a lot of negative inertia and Kirby baggage to still overcome. Prices overall are still stupidly high and there is the looming spectre of what will be coming with 8th edition for 40K. If GW can adequately address those issues with the company itself (and a few other lingering issues from the Kirby era), they have a good future ahead of them - but I don't think that will be reflected in the financials for until a couple years have passed.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I think it is pretty clear AoS is not really doing fantastically. It is difficult to suggest it is doing better than WFB because at this point in time WFB sales are still contributing to the AoS pot.

I do think AoS is gaining a bit of traction (anecdotally) and so it's sales will probably not be drastically worse than WFB would have been. This is also backed up by the financials essentially being more of the same if you strip out the royalties.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

I bet they count all those last chance to buy sales as AoS though, I'd be incredibly surprised if panic buying of old miniatures didn't outstrip AoS.

And total war saving their bacon was no surprise.
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

What I wouldn't give for GW to show their revenue/sales for their various lines individually. I'd love to know how well their burgeoning SG department is doing, compared to say AoS.

Plus, it'd certainly settle a few discussion points we always circle around every half year.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

If it is only the terrains, then I'm fine with it, thanks !

   
Made in au
Steadfast Grey Hunter




hobojebus wrote:
I bet they count all those last chance to buy sales as AoS though, I'd be incredibly surprised if panic buying of old miniatures didn't outstrip AoS.


I was wondering how the hater crowd were going to try and spin this.

You can't keep using that excuse forever I'm afraid.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




motski wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
I bet they count all those last chance to buy sales as AoS though, I'd be incredibly surprised if panic buying of old miniatures didn't outstrip AoS.


I was wondering how the hater crowd were going to try and spin this.

You can't keep using that excuse forever I'm afraid.


Who cares. If they hate, they should move on. It speaks more of them sticking around than them moving on with something they don't like or even worse, hate. End of the day, haters are going to hate no matter what. I will still keep buying if GW is offering me value. Lately they have been offering value, so I am buying some of their products again. Nice to enjoy the hobby again and not be sour about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 20:34:38


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

motski wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
I bet they count all those last chance to buy sales as AoS though, I'd be incredibly surprised if panic buying of old miniatures didn't outstrip AoS.


I was wondering how the hater crowd were going to try and spin this.

You can't keep using that excuse forever I'm afraid.


What excuse?

Based on the information presented, hobojebus' assumption is as valid as any.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I just want to throw this out there, but I spent a feth load of money on last chance Fantasy purchases this year. Unfortunately this does contribute to the AOS pot, I hate AOS, but I will finish my remaining fantasy armies come hell or high water.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I just want to throw this out there, but I spent a feth load of money on last chance Fantasy purchases this year. Unfortunately this does contribute to the AOS pot, I hate AOS, but I will finish my remaining fantasy armies come hell or high water.


And I really doubt you were alone I know several players that wanted to Finish armies for 9th age or kow and bought stuff around that time as well.

Next year will be the real indicator as there's going to be no legacy sales to cloud things.

   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM





-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/15 01:59:38


Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






ok...my post was in response to the post about haters making excuses. And I'm saying that people spending money on last chance stuff was a legitimate buff to AOS sales, some to finish their fantasy armies, some because they wanted to add on to AOS armies. We can't separate them, and can't tell if this is an indicator that those would have contributed to AOS being popular, or if it was falsely added into the AOS pile.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





According to lady Atia on the last chance stuff.

"Too bad that the "panic buying", atleast for the last chance to buy section stuff isn't really huge - the warehouses weren't full of the stuff, especially characters. That's why most of it was sold within minutes ^^"

Believe her or don't.

I am just slightly annoyed that people said this report would be the indicator if AOS is doing good or not. GW say's it's doing better WAIT WE GOTTA WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR! Right so if AOS is still selling more next year what then? Do we wait for the one after that? Or the next? Or perhaps it was the sylvaneth and ironjaw's release that boosted sales also. Espically the sylvaneth release it went out of stock in several territories and the 200+ bundles as well? I guess people forgot that as well. I personally believe Atia and I think the last chance helped but it was not as much as we think it was.

Well we don't have the numbers so it's speculation anyway I am just happy AOS done well this year. Eh kinda tired of this just going to enjoy the hobby.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/07/27 21:59:56


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






"Too bad that the "panic buying", atleast for the last chance to buy section stuff isn't really huge - the warehouses weren't full of the stuff, especially characters. That's why most of it was sold within minutes ^^"

Believe her or don't.


Probably true, and If it came from Atia I am inclined to believe it.

Basically it is selling more than Fantasy did for the last few years, which shouldn't be that difficult if the rumoured numbers are true.

You might be slightly annoyed at people not wanting AOS to succeed. Imagine how the rest of us feel after spending years (in my case a decade and a half) enjoying a game only to be destroyed and replaced with something we despise. I gotta tell you, I feel a little bit more than "annoyed".

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





 Brutus_Apex wrote:
"Too bad that the "panic buying", atleast for the last chance to buy section stuff isn't really huge - the warehouses weren't full of the stuff, especially characters. That's why most of it was sold within minutes ^^"

Believe her or don't.


Probably true, and If it came from Atia I am inclined to believe it.

Basically it is selling more than Fantasy did for the last few years, which shouldn't be that difficult if the rumoured numbers are true.

You might be slightly annoyed at people not wanting AOS to succeed. Imagine how the rest of us feel after spending years (in my case a decade and a half) enjoying a game only to be destroyed and replaced with something we despise. I gotta tell you, I feel a little bit more than "annoyed".


I understand that but it's some of the double standards some people display. I still recall people gloating saying AOS is going to crash and burn the company and it's going to do even worse than how WHFB(plus calling people shallow for liking it) was doing and that this report will show everyone how bad it is and it did the opposite. Someone who even disliked AOS told me this about the report "people voted with their wallets which game they preferred that's the end of it". It's not about me being annoyed at them not wanting to succeed(I could care less if people like it or not people like different things) it's annoying me they keep changing the goal posts of their arguments. "It must be some other reason for AOS doing well" etc.

Plus it did not help that the last CEO priced people out of the old game(look at witch elves 30 pounds for 10 which is barely a unit) plus if at least half of those people who only play the video games of warhammer or just buy books did the table top WHFB would of still been here I think(I liked the old world AND 8th but money constraint's and the like turned me off it since I wanted to play vampire counts and friends were not interested due to the size of the rulebook, this changed with AOS.) . My friend who is a GW manager said the simple fact why his AOS stuff is selling more is that it's simply an easier sale than fantasy considering how it's setup and price ranges. Plus considering the new starting set it should be easier. At the end of the day I am a firm believer that's it's going to be the IP video games which keep GW afloat that's what most people are into for warhammer what we do with the models is a niche hobby.

Honestly I think I should stop thinking hard about this financial stuff and just enjoy the hobby.



This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2016/07/27 22:28:30


 
   
Made in au
Steadfast Grey Hunter




 Brutus_Apex wrote:

You might be slightly annoyed at people not wanting AOS to succeed. Imagine how the rest of us feel after spending years (in my case a decade and a half) enjoying a game only to be destroyed and replaced with something we despise. I gotta tell you, I feel a little bit more than "annoyed".


I think people are perfectly entitled to their own opinion regarding AoS and anything else.

The thing I take objection to is reading the same repeated negative arguments, often from the same posters, over and over and over again in AoS forums and threads. I don't see AoS players intruding into forums for 9th age or KoW or whatever and doing this sort of thing.

It's pretty annoying when I see a new post in the rumour thread or on the forum and it turns out to be the same kind of negative post I've read a million times before. After twelve months of this it starts to get really irritating.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Indeed, Fantasy was too costly to get into at the end there. One of it's major downfalls for sure.

It's pretty annoying when I see a new post in the rumour thread or on the forum and it turns out to be the same kind of negative post I've read a million times before. After twelve months of this it starts to get really irritating.


Sure, I can get that. It's one of the main reasons I stay out of the AOS forum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 22:30:23


Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
 
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