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The original democracy only allowed adult, non-slave males who owned land to vote.

"Democracy" doesn't always mean fair, or even good. It's simply a form of government where citizens are allowed to vote.

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.

Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.

Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?

Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.

Charged under US law and then serve time in UK..

Not sure that would work.

I believe that we have a right to request extradition same as US does to their citizens and criminals in other countries which is why the smart ones go to countries without extradition. I also believe its a countries duty to protect its citizens from other countries in situations such as this. A clearly confused and afraid individual with mental health issues facing long long time in a top federal prison to get beat up and shower molested and all those other things that apparently go on in US prisons.

That said, the UK is currently unable to wipe its own backside due to Brexit and the PM resigned, doubt things will get done.

I think extradition only applies if the crime was committed here, we can't extradite him home for a crime committed there.

However I'm pretty sure if he is tried and convicted there he can serve some/all of his sentence here if the US agree, there are other in our jails currently under similar circumstances (at least from other countries). Would clearly be better for the poor lad if he was closer to home, though I'm not sure time in a British jail would be any less unpleasant.

A very sad case.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.

Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?

Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.

Extradition is when you ask for the return of someone so you can prosecute them for crimes they committed under your laws and jurisdiction . He hasn't broken any UK laws in UK jurisdiction by attempting to cap Trump, so they have no grounds for extradition.

Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how fethed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.

 Darkjim wrote:
I think extradition only applies if the crime was committed here, we can't extradite him home for a crime committed there.

However I'm pretty sure if he is tried and convicted there he can serve some/all of his sentence here if the US agree, there are other in our jails currently under similar circumstances (at least from other countries). Would clearly be better for the poor lad if he was closer to home, though I'm not sure time in a British jail would be any less unpleasant.

A very sad case.

Whilst true that time in a british jail may not be any more pleasant, it does mean that those responsible for his welfare are answerable to the british people. Which I think is quite important if the suspect in question is a UK citizen and would be at high risk, as may be the case here.

And after all, he is an illegal immigrant, surely the US would rather the UK foots the bill for his incarceration than they do

 CptJake wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.

Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?

Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.

Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how f***ed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.

If he was as clearly messed up as this guy, I would. Possibly Her Maj too.

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

Hahaha

How can anyone think these are good excuses? "He was a good kid, he couldn't hurt a fly. Yes he tried to steal a gun and shoot a man but he was a great person! He doesn't belong in a prison with other murderers and attempted murderers!"

His parents are in complete denial about how horrid their son is.

If he needs psychiatric help he will have access to one in prison where he belongs. He certainly does not belong with society, who knows when "America needs saving again" or when he might have the urge to kill someone for disagreeing with him again.

 CptJake wrote:
Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how fethed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.

Nah, I'd say the same thing no matter who he tried to assassinate, the point being he didn't succeed, and is clearly not all together mentally. That's why I said he should go to a mental institution, where he can get help. And should sever out his sentence there. Or even longer is he is still considered a danger.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

Hahaha

How can anyone think these are good excuses? "He was a good kid, he couldn't hurt a fly. Yes he tried to steal a gun and shoot a man but he was a great person! He doesn't belong in a prison with other murderers and attempted murderers!"

His parents are in complete denial about how horrid their son is.

If he needs psychiatric help he will have access to one in prison where he belongs. He certainly does not belong with society, who knows when "America needs saving again" or when he might have the urge to kill someone for disagreeing with him again.

Interesting.

Any response from trump at all?

Yeah, he's going to build a wall down the middle of the Atlantic. Plus something about how big his todger is probably.

 Darkjim wrote:
Yeah, he's going to build a wall down the middle of the Atlantic. Plus something about how big his todger is probably.

So we will be 10 trillion dollars more in debt oh great.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 kronk wrote:

There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.

Bravo, sir.

I really have no idea what this means. Don't take stabs at me. If you have something to say, say it. You don't like what I have to say, that's okay, but cut the crap. Thanks.

I said it very plainly and directly.

You don't know what goal post moving means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

Most sociopaths are good at seeming delightful...

I would be fine with a long term in a mental hospital, though. Sounds like he may be touched.

Trump was just over in UK. I don't know why this guy just didn't wait until he had the home field advantage!

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

Nailed it.

Won't be long before the hysteria spills over again. People like this kid who are already at the frayed end of "functioning" in society, are very vulnerable to extreme rhetoric.

 jhe90 wrote:
Charged under US law and then serve time in UK..

Not sure that would work.

It's fairly common, actually. You have to be convicted in the foreign country first, and you have to serve out the proper sentence in your own country. It's probably less like between US and UK as both countries are English speaking so there isn't a peculiar detriment to being in the other jail.

 kronk wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 kronk wrote:

There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.

Bravo, sir.

I really have no idea what this means. Don't take stabs at me. If you have something to say, say it. You don't like what I have to say, that's okay, but cut the crap. Thanks.

I said it very plainly and directly.

You don't know what goal post moving means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/british-man-explains-his-reason-for-attempting-to-assassinate-donald-trump-260616

Most sociopaths are good at seeming delightful...

I would be fine with a long term in a mental hospital, though. Sounds like he may be touched

There term you are looking for is suffering from a mental illness. This guy is sick and deserves the proper medical treatment rather than locked up and throw away the key. The kid is scared and vulnerable, incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).

 Deadshot wrote:
incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).

not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?

Asterios wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).

not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?

Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.

 Deadshot wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).

not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?

Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.

then be worried, be very worried especially when he wins, the fact anyone can put any credence into him doing even half the things he says he will do are not very smart about how the Government works.

Asterios wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).

not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?

Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.

then be worried, be very worried especially when he wins, the fact anyone can put any credence into him doing even half the things he says he will do are not very smart about how the Government works.

Its no what he says he'll do, its that A) people believe him B) people want him. And its also not "the Government," its the US government. There are other governments and contrary to popular belief the universe isn't America-centric.

So we see what is coming through Trump.
He loves to fear-monger because he thinks the weak will gravitate to him since he is "tough" and a "winner" and all those racy alpha-male descriptions.
It is amazing how using 4th grade level language, repetition and being loud can be confused with leadership qualities.
The funny thing is, anyone that actually IS an alpha-male sees he cannot argue his way out of a paper-bag.
He says he always wins, because the one thing he is smart with is not putting himself in a position where he has a chance to lose.
Have you seen Trump try a debate with Obama?
You know who would slaughter who?

This article is a rather interesting an observation from Obama on Trump's rise:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/12/president-obamas-brutal-assessment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/
"So if you don’t care about the facts, or the evidence, or civility, in general in making your arguments, you will end up with candidates who will say just about anything and do just about anything. And when your answer to every proposal that I make, or Democrats make is no, it means that you’ve got to become more and more unreasonable because that’s the only way you can say no to some pretty reasonable stuff. And then you shouldn’t be surprised when your party ultimately has no ideas to offer at all."

Trump is a certainly a threat to democratic process.
He would not tolerate "red tape" or anyone else's opinion so you can be sure he will try to trim or circumvent many systems that really are there to keep people like him in check.
Do you honestly think he will happily represent the "will of the people"?
Yeah you get a chance and possibly vote him in but then for 4 years he does anything he wants and too bad for you.

Seeing a democratic process that people feel less faith in, you can see why more radicalized methods of solving problems is considered.
So many violent options seem to get things done in the world so why not fall back on a more direct approach?
Trump is so divisive that yes, even a murderer would be lauded as a hero in some circles so that is all the justification some people need.

I always liked Plato and back in the day public service was an honorable thing and it cannot be said so well as now:
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."

 kronk wrote:


You don't know what goal post moving means.

When having a discussion, no, I don't. Care to explain?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
So we see what is coming through Trump.
He loves to fear-monger because he thinks the weak will gravitate to him since he is "tough" and a "winner" and all those racy alpha-male descriptions.
It is amazing how using 4th grade level language, repetition and being loud can be confused with leadership qualities.
The funny thing is, anyone that actually IS an alpha-male sees he cannot argue his way out of a paper-bag.
He says he always wins, because the one thing he is smart with is not putting himself in a position where he has a chance to lose.
Have you seen Trump try a debate with Obama?
You know who would slaughter who?

This article is a rather interesting an observation from Obama on Trump's rise:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/12/president-obamas-brutal-assessment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/
"So if you don’t care about the facts, or the evidence, or civility, in general in making your arguments, you will end up with candidates who will say just about anything and do just about anything. And when your answer to every proposal that I make, or Democrats make is no, it means that you’ve got to become more and more unreasonable because that’s the only way you can say no to some pretty reasonable stuff. And then you shouldn’t be surprised when your party ultimately has no ideas to offer at all."

Trump is a certainly a threat to democratic process.
He would not tolerate "red tape" or anyone else's opinion so you can be sure he will try to trim or circumvent many systems that really are there to keep people like him in check.
Do you honestly think he will happily represent the "will of the people"?
Yeah you get a chance and possibly vote him in but then for 4 years he does anything he wants and too bad for you.

Seeing a democratic process that people feel less faith in, you can see why more radicalized methods of solving problems is considered.
So many violent options seem to get things done in the world so why not fall back on a more direct approach?
Trump is so divisive that yes, even a murderer would be lauded as a hero in some circles so that is all the justification some people need.

I always liked Plato and back in the day public service was an honorable thing and it cannot be said so well as now:
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."

My goodness, where to begin.

Our Democratic leaders have been feeding us lies for 8 years now. Anytime they are opposed, they say that their opposition are "racist", bigots" or "xenophobes".

They have been violently opposed to any ideals that are not theirs, which is evident by the many times Trump supports try to gather. The argument is that "Trump incites violence", but it is not his followers being violent. The way to oppose your opponent is not to throw rocks and eggs at them. Forcibly remove thier clothing and burn it, nor tear down tents and yell obscenities at armed guards.

In this very thread, people have said they wouldn't "mind" if Trump were shot. Killed perhaps. Really? This is the mind of a reasonable opposition?

When certain of our Democratic upper leadership are faced with facts, they are twisted by those who follow them and the media who support them wholeheartedly and blindly. One of which is actually going to be their Presidential nominee while under investigation by the FBI for treason.

You are Canadian. Why are your countrymen so keen on our Political process? I can tell you categorically that very few in the USA cares a rip about Canadian politics. The only they care about is how low your dollar goes so they can get a cheap vacation.

Please explain how Trump is a threat to the Democratic Process.If he is voted in as our next President via the Democratic Process, the process is working as intended. Obama is amuch bigger threat when he takes directives without consulting the people voted in to represent The People. Especially when these directives are not in his jurisdiction in the first place. THAT's a huge threat to the Democratic Process. Other Presidents from both parties have done this in the past. Were they a threat, too? I guess they weren't if you agreed with them, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spinner wrote:
The original democracy only allowed adult, non-slave males who owned land to vote.

"Democracy" doesn't always mean fair, or even good. It's simply a form of government where citizens are allowed to vote.

Right so if some citizens aren't allowed to vote, it's not a Democracy?

Well, considering the founders of Democracy only allowed a portion of their population to vote (Non-slave males), I'd say the definition is a bit broader then people tend to paint it with.

Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.

Not exactly.

According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.

Not exactly.

According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]

And according to political scientist me, it doesn't. Yay appeal to authority!