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I too am glad they aren't there, but grand total there were right around 500 of the various 4 marks of Puma's built. The last one with the 7.5cm Pak40 only had about 89 built in the 4 months it was operational before the end of the war. It was pretty much a flop though, the vehicle wasn't built to handle the stresses of that big of a gun.

The 251 was a decent choice and works for me. I think A StuG or Marder would have been cool too.

Looking forward to this set just because I like adding things to my armies. Gotta figure out if I need more Grenadiers or more US Infantry for my Cassino grand battle I want to play in the near future.

I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.

That would be cool, but there's no plastic Marder kit available - and this starter set will be sold in quantities that would make resin production untenable.

The new paras look reasonable in pictures. The machete guy is silly, but the others look okay.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
I agree wit the marder since the box features dday paratroops. Amongst the troops that took action against them, the most famous must be the atypical 21 pzdivision which was provided with a lot of such '' salvaged'' materials.

That would be cool, but there's no plastic Marder kit available - and this starter set will be sold in quantities that would make resin production untenable.

I personaly don't blame them about this according to the essence of this tank, but i think that wouldn't hurt to make a ''panzerjager set'' which would include enough component yo create a french tank based one or a Marder.

And yep, the guy with the machete is a rediculous caricature, otherwise the pthers look freaking awesome to me

Quick summary of tweaks and changes. Here's the quote about templates:

"It's as simple as, instead of rolling when you hit with HE, instead of rolling 2d6 and finding out how many hits was caused and then apply, you just place the template to see how many hits was caused, and apply.
So it literally, the placing of the template replaces the roll of the dice.

There is no scattering of the template, nothing like that. So it's very straightforward. If you miss, you miss. You don't worry about where it goes."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
And yep, the guy with the machete is a rediculous caricature, otherwise the pthers look freaking awesome to me

Methinks they included that so you can make models based on photographs of 101 and Pathfinders with kukri and machetes. I posted pics at
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/673077.page#8818896
and
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/673077.page#8818927

"Armed Transports! Once your squad has piled out of its halftrack, the driver can speed around and unleash a hail of lead at the enemy!"

Oh thank God. So you mean I finally will be able to use my halftracks without having to leave an officer in it to drive it around? Vehicle crews -exist-? Novel concept!

Janwin wrote:
"Armed Transports! Once your squad has piled out of its halftrack, the driver can speed around and unleash a hail of lead at the enemy!"

Oh thank God. So you mean I finally will be able to use my halftracks without having to leave an officer in it to drive it around? Vehicle crews -exist-? Novel concept!

I loved leaving in a medic in my M3 halftrack to operate all four machine guns.

Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers

Depends on the vehicle, and how it was operated historically.

The German half-tracks could operate that way historically. The US, not so much.

Eumerin wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers

Depends on the vehicle, and how it was operated historically.

The German half-tracks could operate that way historically. The US, not so much.

Well you basically repeated in a clearer way what is said . But i do think having a heavy machine gun pintle monted was interesting enough to have one of the crew doing it even if, of course, US, USSR, and british tactics didn't really bother with it.

Anyway, has anyone heard about the new German army book? They told it to be reprinted in 2.0 alongside the rulebook but i doubt there's been any further info about it.

Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

 Vertrucio wrote:
Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

Irrelevant.

But to answer anyway, i'd say there's none.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

Because I put one pin on it and it's out for the rest of the game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Thats darn better since in feal life the crew would probably provide his comrades with support fire, especially in the some of the German army's units such panzergrenadiers

They're about the only ones whose halftracks did that. I wish it was more of a German special rule. US halftracks would retire immediately.

Well, i totally agree to regard and shift it into a german rule. But bereaving it to ohters, in a sens is quite unfair as a matter of ruleset, and lets face it, the case in which the halftrack would serv as fire vehicule even from time to time, justifies it.

To sum all whats been said and what i think, its a good rule upgrade while historically, if not 100 percent true, at least easily defendable enough to remain.

Thus that aint like if their werent propoganda film outnumbering soviet conscript as a special rule to USSR, and the fact that such a joke exists in the game is large enough to compensate and justify minor off track rules

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Well you basically repeated in a clearer way what is said . But i do think having a heavy machine gun pintle monted was interesting enough to have one of the crew doing it even if, of course, US, USSR, and british tactics didn't really bother with it.

For the US, at least, that's the problem - there was no crew to operate it. The squad mounted in the back provided the gunner. I'm guessing that the British and the Soviets did the same, though I don't know for certain.

That was not the case with the Germans.

Pre-Order is up.

Sweet, I can't wait to get started.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.

But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.

But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.

Well, an Inexperienced Mortar is easier to pin.... But you can just take a FO, plonk them in some nice heavy cover at the back of the board with LOS to everything and shoot the hell out of your opponent. Nah, Experienced/Veteran mortars are more of a fluff thing.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
Any reason to not take a inexperienced mortar?

Apparently it's seen as the worst form of cheese among some in the Bolt Action community. Post a list with veteran troops and an inexp mortar on the WLG forums and they will flip out. I even read a post where someone said that rules exploit ruined the game for them.

But yes, I am excited too! I am glad they are toning down flamers and HE while buffing machine guns.

Well, an Inexperienced Mortar is easier to pin.... But you can just take a FO, plonk them in some nice heavy cover at the back of the board with LOS to everything and shoot the hell out of your opponent. Nah, Experienced/Veteran mortars are more of a fluff thing.

Not only easier to pin but easier to kill. I've never seen the point to take Inexperienced mortars, unless your list is themed as inexperienced. Usually if one thing shoots them, they're dead or pinned for the rest of the game.

A Veteran mortar team is twice as survivable versus inexperienced (5+ versus 3+ to kill) and can take three pins before they become as ineffective at activating as an Inexperience mortar team with one pin. These two facts alone make them worth the points over an inexperienced team, and when you NEED smoke to be placed to cover your advance _or_ they have zero'ed in on an antitank gun or artillery position, you DO NOT want your mortar team to not activate.

Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.

Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.

Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....

Smoke is where they excel at - but indirect onto units clumped up behind cover is going to change their dynamic very little, I think.

I use vet mortars where appropriate. All FJ list is all veterans regardless. Polish, all regulars. etc.

Guys guys calm down that's no rule discussing trhead!!!

 judgedoug wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Yeah, which is why I think some people's reactions to them can be a bit... extreme. I prefer regular mortars because they are a good value. Veteran mortars feel like a waste of points, at least to me, because they are paying for durability they aren't going to use often. But I could see the appeal to some especially for those who play in a meta with a lot of outflankers.

Though, with the upcoming changes to HE, are mortars going to be the auto-include they are today? I mean, we'll have to see how it is handled but this does seem like a big nerf. But it does make me reconsider the ability of mortars to lay smoke....

Smoke is where they excel at - but indirect onto units clumped up behind cover is going to change their dynamic very little, I think.

I use vet mortars where appropriate. All FJ list is all veterans regardless. Polish, all regulars. etc.

Ah yes, Smoke. So many people laugh at it, but it is really useful.

Anecdotally, last night I saw a US MMG team fire at and wipe out an inexperienced SS mortar team because they were so easy to kill Three hits and three wounds. Those brand new SS didn't know to duck when an MG fires at them

Has anyone gotten the new rules in hand yet? I just picked up a Japanese starter set and was wondering how exactly to kit them out with the new rules. I know the prices didnt change but was curious how their knee mortars were affected before I build a squad of them.

I'm also dying to know what they did to fix up MG's since I've got several LMG's and MMG's spread out across my 4 armies. I'm going to run them no matter how "bad" they are (running anything but Jap or Soviet infantry without LMG's just feels wrong honestly, and even there only in certain situations) but it'd be nice to know exactly how they've changed. Especially for my Germans, since I've got 2 MMG's and something like 6 LMG teams.

Of course I'm kind of weird in that I prefer to only take things that make sense at a 6x4 scale. I don't like taking anything heavier than a light mortar artillery wise unless it's something that tended to be used directly. I tend to stick to lighter tanks/assault guns, and rely more heavily on man portable weapons like Bazookas, AT rifles, Panzerfausts, and satchels for AT work, etc. I think the heaviest gun I own is a PaK 40, and even felt thats a bit large at this scale.

Thankfully Bolt Action works pretty well even when I'm sticking to certain rules like that so it's never been an issue, but it would be nice to know I can actually rely on my MG's for infantry work gameplaywise.

I dont think any rules have been released yet. I am more anxious to learn what the effects of basing is going to be with templates. Are we allowed to use bigger scenic bases which then spread guys out or will the blast templates automatically hit everyone on a base? What if guys dont fit on the issued base?

Theorically no one should have a new ruleset since 2nd is to be release around fall. For now that's pre order but you still gotta wait. The Nips are on added to the russkis, the brits, the US and the krauts in the core rulebook though so you don't need a separate book anymore!

As far as knee mortar that must count as a light mortar.

yeah in V1 they work like a light mortar as far as I'm aware (1d2 hits, smoke, and 12-24" range)

I'm curious about template size, since even a fairly small template will produce more hits than 1d2 unless cohesion distance increases