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Faction, not just Codex?

Imperium. The lore already exists that the Golden Throne's on the verge of going under. When that happens, Terra disappears and the Imperium loses its ability to travel between systems. Supplies and reinforcements can no longer be delivered, and the Imperium crumbles to dust in short order.

If you mean Codex, then any of the Space Marine ones. Any of them. I don't care which. They get way too much attention.

Wolf wolfs from wolf world on giant wolfs named after wolfs who attack with wolf themed wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf.

Kill space wolfs for the naming conventions alone, damnit!

The Imperium of Man.

@jeffersonian000

It was a play on 'bite the bullet' and 'buy the farm'.

Just saying : )

 Vaktathi wrote:
Or it could be that they just dont believe they fit the narrative, tone, or overarching style of the background the universe, or within the context of a force that really suits 28mm play?

I mean, there's usuaslly something a little deeper than just "those people are jerks".

No, pretty sure they're just donkey-caves.

Good people don't usually go out of there way to make other people miserable. It's why I don't have any real desire to remove any faction from the game, no matter how much I might want to in the case of all the unnecessary Space Marine books that share 90% of the same models and rules (and where they do differ people bitch and moan endlessly about it, so being rolled into one book seems like it would benefit everyone anyway, but whatever), because there are people out there who have spent a good amount of time and money on them that they can't get back. We're talking potentially thousands of dollars, years of your life, and no one wants to see all that go to waste, which is what it feels like when your faction loses support.

If you do want that, if you seriously just can't stand the fact that I like something you don't like and want my investment to be all for nothing, to the point where you constantly make or participate in threads like this one where everyone stands around in a circle and basically jerks off while gaking on Tau (with Knight armies coming in a distant second), then you're an donkey-cave. These same people are also the reason why I can't play the game anymore (even if I wanted to), why I'm assumed to be WAAC/TFG by people who don't know jack gak about me other than my online handle and preferred army, and why I lost all passion for the hobby years ago and don't even build or paint models anymore...why bother? I'm not going to waste what little time I have nowadays pursuing a hobby I'm no longer "allowed" to participate in, and attempt to engage with people who hate my fething guts and are rude asses to me for no real reason. And no, believing that Tau "don't fit the narrative/tone of the universe" is not a good enough reason to gak on someone else's hobby.

The only thing threads like this accomplish are telling people that they're not wanted. They're exclusionary. They're a waste of fething space. They reveal a community that looks friendly and accessible on the outside for the toxic cesspit that it really is. "40k is great, come buy a starter box and join us, brother! Just so long as you don't fething pick Tau..."

I think most factions could hold their own in the WH40k Universe... But if I had to choose, it would be Tyranid. Horde armies are covered on the board with Ork and AM (potentially), and I never really cared for their models. I like the idea of an "alien" army, but I don't think they bring as much to the table as the others. In terms of fluff Orks and Necron fill a similar role, with Orks having the numbers and Necron being resilient. Tyranid kind of fit in the middle for me. With that being said, I do not think GW should get rid of them... Or any faction.

But I would like to see some current factions combined (i.e. single Codex for Adeptus Mechanicus combining Skitarii, Mechanicus, and Knights). IMO the only Ally Codexes for IoM should be SoB, Inquisitors/Assassins, and potentially Grey Knights.

I'm convinced at this point that Necrons have a reserved place in hell for them. Boring playstyle, boring to play against, boring to look at. Hell, even the new fluff for them is complete gak. They seriously need to be told where to go.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Good people don't usually go out of there way to make other people miserable.

No, good people don't. But most of the time when people say "this faction should be removed" it's because it's best for the game as a whole. Making someone else unhappy is an unfortunate cost of making the game better for everyone else, not a desired goal. And the simple fact of game design is that you can't make everyone happy. You just have to accept that you're going to get complaints and make the best game you can.

I think the problem you're seeing with the Tau is that there aren't any good reasons to remove them. It's just stupid complaints about "one time I played a guy with a Tau army and he was such a TFG", or people who don't understand the Tau fluff at all and think that "grimdark" is limited to having lots of skulls on every possible surface. These people are clearly wrong but that doesn't mean that the general idea of removing a faction from 40k is some kind of unacceptable TFG behavior.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Or it could be that they just dont believe they fit the narrative, tone, or overarching style of the background the universe, or within the context of a force that really suits 28mm play?

I mean, there's usuaslly something a little deeper than just "those people are jerks".

No, pretty sure they're just donkey-caves.

Good people don't usually go out of there way to make other people miserable. It's why I don't have any real desire to remove any faction from the game, no matter how much I might want to in the case of all the unnecessary Space Marine books that share 90% of the same models and rules (and where they do differ people bitch and moan endlessly about it, so being rolled into one book seems like it would benefit everyone anyway, but whatever), because there are people out there who have spent a good amount of time and money on them that they can't get back. We're talking potentially thousands of dollars, years of your life, and no one wants to see all that go to waste, which is what it feels like when your faction loses support.

If you do want that, if you seriously just can't stand the fact that I like something you don't like and want my investment to be all for nothing, to the point where you constantly make or participate in threads like this one where everyone stands around in a circle and basically jerks off while gaking on Tau (with Knight armies coming in a distant second), then you're an donkey-cave. These same people are also the reason why I can't play the game anymore (even if I wanted to), why I'm assumed to be WAAC/TFG by people who don't know jack gak about me other than my online handle and preferred army, and why I lost all passion for the hobby years ago and don't even build or paint models anymore...why bother? I'm not going to waste what little time I have nowadays pursuing a hobby I'm no longer "allowed" to participate in, and attempt to engage with people who hate my fething guts and are rude asses to me for no real reason. And no, believing that Tau "don't fit the narrative/tone of the universe" is not a good enough reason to gak on someone else's hobby.

The only thing threads like this accomplish are telling people that they're not wanted. They're exclusionary. They're a waste of fething space. They reveal a community that looks friendly and accessible on the outside for the toxic cesspit that it really is. "40k is great, come buy a starter box and join us, brother! Just so long as you don't fething pick Tau..."

Nobody is going out of their way to make anyone miserable. You're projecting a whole lot here. A simple question was asked and people gave their answers. Nobody is going out of their way to actively hate on anyone or actively force Games Workshop to ban someone from playing their favorite faction ever again. People are responding to "if one has to go, which one would you prefer?". That's not an unfair or horrible question. It really isn't. That's not going out of their way to make other people miserable unless those other people are just far too fragile to deal with the fact that someone doesn't like their faction. You're bringing a whole lot of hostility into this that really wasn't here to begin with.

Tau simply because their entire gameplay style is not suited for 40k... and I know some TFG who play only Tau.

You forgot to give me credit for that quote Sidstyler.

Its unfortunate I've come to own a Tau army unintentionally.

 Quickjager wrote:
Tau simply because their entire gameplay style is not suited for 40k...

Only if you assume that 40k is WHFB with different models. It isn't, and Tau work just fine.

Sisters of Battle. I don't want to remove anyone, but removing SoB would at least remove the least amount of content from the game.

Chaos Marines. Because GW has no intention of properly supporting them with either new codex or models. Also, im a necron player, before some cheeky imperal player wants to make a chaos whiner remark

 Peregrine wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Tau simply because their entire gameplay style is not suited for 40k...

Only if you assume that 40k is WHFB with different models. It isn't, and Tau work just fine.

I would agree with you if they had units that could actually be part of the other 2/3rds of the game.

 Quickjager wrote:
I would agree with you if they had units that could actually be part of the other 2/3rds of the game.

Tau have lots of units that are part of movement. The only thing they lack is melee units, but that's no worse than a pure Khorne demon army having no shooting units.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
I would agree with you if they had units that could actually be part of the other 2/3rds of the game.

Tau have lots of units that are part of movement. The only thing they lack is melee units, but that's no worse than a pure Khorne demon army having no shooting units.

The more I play this game and the better my own army has gotten, I'm finding myself re-evaluating my previous opinions.

I'm not as convinced as I used to be that Tau don't belong in 40k. I'm not particularly afraid, e.g., of crisis suits.

And Tau become pretty ineffective once you start killing their marker lights.

There are, however, certain elements of the Tau codex which require tweaking/revision (riptides are complete bull gak, as are ghost keels and stormsurges). I stand by a previous assertion of mine, namely, that Tau players are generally forced either to run cheesy gak, or else, get curbstomped by any reasonably well constructed list in the hands of a player who even half knows what he's doing.

Back to the OP:

I'm fine with basically all of the factions in the game, at least, in concept. I do think that there are too many codices and we could stand to have a lot more things "rolled together," so to speak.

IKs don't need their own codex. Neither do sisters of battle. Neither do blood angels.

Guys, Tau should definitely stay.

Necrons are the army that simply isn't any fun to play against, so that gets my vote for outright removal.

As Tau stay, they should be massively nerfed << Imperial Guard power level. IG should win Tau 4 games out of 5. Keeping Tau around as IG's whipping boy is far better than banning them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Good people don't usually go out of there way to make other people miserable.

And yet, Necrons are still a thing... :(

 Traditio wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
I would agree with you if they had units that could actually be part of the other 2/3rds of the game.

Tau have lots of units that are part of movement. The only thing they lack is melee units, but that's no worse than a pure Khorne demon army having no shooting units.

The more I play this game and the better my own army has gotten, I'm finding myself re-evaluating my previous opinions.

I'm not as convinced as I used to be that Tau don't belong in 40k. I'm not particularly afraid, e.g., of crisis suits.

And Tau become pretty ineffective once you start killing their marker lights.

There are, however, certain elements of the Tau codex which require tweaking/revision (riptides are complete bull gak, as are ghost keels and stormsurges). I stand by a previous assertion of mine, namely, that Tau players are generally forced either to run cheesy gak, or else, get curbstomped by any reasonably well constructed list in the hands of a player who even half knows what he's doing.

Back to the OP:

I'm fine with basically all of the factions in the game, at least, in concept. I do think that there are too many codices and we could stand to have a lot more things "rolled together," so to speak.

IKs don't need their own codex. Neither do sisters of battle. Neither do blood angels.

Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

Pouncey wrote:Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

A general inquisition codex?

Table wrote:
Chaos Marines. Because GW has no intention of properly supporting them with either new codex or models. Also, I'm a necron player, before some cheeky impeiral player wants to make a chaos whiner remark

Undead Whiner.

 Traditio wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

A general inquisition codex?

Sororitas don't work for the Inquisition though, they work for the Ecclesiarchy. Their weird pairing with the Ordo Hereticus isn't really mentioned anymore.

Pretty much every faction that has come out since the beginning of sixth edition. I feel that everything that has come out have just added to the bloat that makes the game the mess it has become.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

A general inquisition codex?

Sororitas don't work for the Inquisition though, they work for the Ecclesiarchy. Their weird pairing with the Ordo Hereticus isn't really mentioned anymore.

"The Sisterhood's Orders Militant serve as the Ecclesiarchy's fighting arm, mercilessly rooting out corruption and heresy within humanity and every organization of the Adeptus Terra. There is naturally some overlap between the duties of the Sisterhood and the Imperial Inquisition; for this reason, although the Inquisition and the Sisterhood remain entirely separate organisations, the Orders Militant of the Sisterhood also act as the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Hereticus."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas

Adepta Sororitas, Gray Knights and Inquisition could easily be rolled into one codex.

One totally badass codex that might actually stand a chance of being updated every once in a while.

 Traditio wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

A general inquisition codex?

Sororitas don't work for the Inquisition though, they work for the Ecclesiarchy. Their weird pairing with the Ordo Hereticus isn't really mentioned anymore.

"The Sisterhood's Orders Militant serve as the Ecclesiarchy's fighting arm, mercilessly rooting out corruption and heresy within humanity and every organization of the Adeptus Terra. There is naturally some overlap between the duties of the Sisterhood and the Imperial Inquisition; for this reason, although the Inquisition and the Sisterhood remain entirely separate organisations, the Orders Militant of the Sisterhood also act as the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Hereticus."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas

Adepta Sororitas, Gray Knights and Inquisition could easily be rolled into one codex.

One totally badass codex that might actually stand a chance of being updated every once in a while.

So, how long before we get fluff about Logan Grimnar executing Sisters and Grey Knights because they share a codex with the inquisition?

 Traditio wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mkay, I guess Imperial Knights could just be a couple of Lords of War dataslates, and Blood Angels could be standard Space Marines, but whose Codex would you roll the Sororitas into?

A general inquisition codex?

Sororitas don't work for the Inquisition though, they work for the Ecclesiarchy. Their weird pairing with the Ordo Hereticus isn't really mentioned anymore.

"The Sisterhood's Orders Militant serve as the Ecclesiarchy's fighting arm, mercilessly rooting out corruption and heresy within humanity and every organization of the Adeptus Terra. There is naturally some overlap between the duties of the Sisterhood and the Imperial Inquisition; for this reason, although the Inquisition and the Sisterhood remain entirely separate organisations, the Orders Militant of the Sisterhood also act as the Chamber Militant of the Inquisition's Ordo Hereticus."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas

Adepta Sororitas, Gray Knights and Inquisition could easily be rolled into one codex.

One totally badass codex that might actually stand a chance of being updated every once in a while.

Could work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
So, how long before we get fluff about Logan Grimnar executing Sisters and Grey Knights because they share a codex with the inquisition?

The Space Wolves already killed Battle Sisters and vice-versa. There was a few-weeks-long incident where the Ecclesiarchy turned up at Fenris to investigate claims of heresy relating to the Wolves' rituals, resulting in a space war with the Ecclesiarchy eventually withdrawing.

Space Wolves are awesome for stickin it to the two jerkiest of jerk factions in the Imperium - Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy.

Also he did the same with the Grey Knights, but that small war was much larger and longer, resulting in the loss of multiple planets from Exterminatus following the First War for Armageddon.

Inquisition. I'll eat gak for this comment but I was never into future scify that mimics Gothic. Yes yes space marines are based on rome(let's be real rome was a sick time period) but world purgers bases on the crusades? Not my thing. Strangely I like grey knights as a secret order but the religious zealots are the sisters and should just be the sisters, everone else is just some form or SM who are the elites of the IOM. That being said wolfs are getting silly to the point where they look like somthing on the side of deamons.

P.s. ORKS OR NIDS?!?!?!?!? No way they are the natural bad guys who just exist like animals should. Just as important as the unnatural (deamons) who we can agree are truly evil


If any SM faction were to go down I'd hope it was inquisition. Honestly the wolf's are cool just not the wolfen

What books?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
What books?

No idea. I haven't been able to enjoy reading a novel in years.

I read about it on Lexicanum, I think.

Here's the one with the Ecclesiarchy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fenris_Incident

And the beautiful piece of lore where they wage war on the Inquisition and Grey Knights.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Months_of_Shame

I feel like the IoM could be narrowed down some, better than half of the codexs are IoM. Not gotten rid of, just consolidated. Lore wise the easiest faction to get rid of is the tau, they are about a crusade or a hive fleet away from being a memory. Craftworld eldar are also on the bubble, but are significantly more crafty than the tau. Out of game wise, nids are an endangered species, I know one person that plays them competitively, and despite being such a great villain in other GW games (space hulk, deathwatch, lost patrol) they get zero love in 40k.

As for the necrons being shoehorned in and not fitting, Necrons first mention is in rouge trader (you can see a picture of a necron warrior), and they had figures as far back as second/third ed so they have been there since the beginning. The jarring part was the retcon from old crons to new crons, one of GWs biggest lore mistakes. Old Crons fit the setting perfectly, slaves to chtulu-esque monsters who consumed stars, who in turn consumed the lesser races to make more of themselves. The insinuations that Ad Mech was worshiping the C'Tan Dragon, and outright mentions of Necron tech in the assassins codex, pretty much made them the largest threat to the IoM because they were already inside it. Then someone influential had a stroke or something while watching stargate, and we got loony tomb kings in space (and we have all seen how well the tomb kings have done). It was the most awful retcon in a setting known for horrible retcons, and has yet to be equaled in terms of sheer WTF? All of the prior ground work got trashed and we got awkward hand wavey non answer as to the relationship between ad mech and necrons. People see necrons as not quite fitting in and that's why, their story has had to live with the worst retcon since earl flyn gave the count of monte cristo a happy ending.

 Grimgold wrote:
I feel like the IoM could be narrowed down some, better than half of the codexs are IoM. Not gotten rid of, just consolidated. Lore wise the easiest faction to get rid of is the tau, they are about a crusade or a hive fleet away from being a memory. Craftworld eldar are also on the bubble, but are significantly more crafty than the tau. Out of game wise, nids are an endangered species, I know one person that plays them competitively, and despite being such a great villain in other GW games (space hulk, deathwatch, lost patrol) they get zero love in 40k.

As for the necrons being shoehorned in and not fitting, Necrons first mention is in rouge trader (you can see a picture of a necron warrior), and they had figures as far back as second/third ed so they have been there since the beginning. The jarring part was the retcon from old crons to new crons, one of GWs biggest lore mistakes. Old Crons fit the setting perfectly, slaves to chtulu-esque monsters who consumed stars, who in turn consumed the lesser races to make more of themselves. The insinuations that Ad Mech was worshiping the C'Tan Dragon, and outright mentions of Necron tech in the assassins codex, pretty much made them the largest threat to the IoM because they were already inside it. Then someone influential had a stroke or something while watching stargate, and we got loony tomb kings in space (and we have all seen how well the tomb kings have done). It was the most awful retcon in a setting known for horrible retcons, and has yet to be equaled in terms of sheer WTF? All of the prior ground work got trashed and we got awkward hand wavey non answer as to the relationship between ad mech and necrons. People see necrons as not quite fitting in and that's why, their story has had to live with the worst retcon since earl flyn gave the count of monte cristo a happy ending.

I always feel bad for Tyranids fans. It's so rare that they actually become a playable faction in 40k video games instead of just the NPC enemies.