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 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Necrons. Boring fluff, boring models, and boring rules.

Knights can go too. Superheavies should be Apoc only.

That sounds like a wonderful idea.
Mind you, I would miss watching my opponent's face fall when they realise my Wulfen can bust up their points sink with Thunder Hammers after they've been stomped to death.

Not interested in killing a faction, I love the depth of conflict too much. I would like to see an overhaul of the Tyranids though into something more fluff stimulating and game unique.

Daemons - they just don't fit into sci-fi.

With that, you could junk the space marine army created specifically to counter them - Gray Knights.

 Stormonu wrote:
Daemons - they just don't fit into sci-fi.

With that, you could junk the space marine army created specifically to counter them - Gray Knights.

Alternate dimension entities that prey on your emotions and are made of the psychic echo of quintillions of people isn't sci-fi enough for you?

Personally if any faction was going to get dropped I'd say Tau. Only because the space they hold really should be given over to a more general xenos book that has Tau and about a dozen other races in it that you can mix and match into an army.

That aside, the solo Marine books need to be folded into a single book. With Black Templars having Crusade Squads to themselves it's not like other "this chapter and it's successors only" stuff couldn't be locked away behind CT walls negating the need for Dark Angels and Blood Angels books. Space Wolves could get a pass on this, but honestly I don't think it could hurt. Only outlier really is Grey Knights and Deathwatch (accoridng to rumors) and I could live with those two having books as long as the rest got done right.

Inquisition could be split up into different Ordos books or pull in the Grey Knights, Sisters (who currently have no mention of their work with the =I= in their own codex despite old fluff), and Storm Troopers into a single book with them an the Assassins and just make it "Forces of the Imperium" with ways to play everythuing pure or mixed together.

Ad Mech should definitely be one book and not two as well.

I think Tyranids just need a down and dirty rework.

I'd vote for Grey Knights. I just think the whole super space marine thing is a bit silly. "I'm so space marine that even space marines tell me to chill the !@#$ out".

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Necrons. Boring fluff, boring models, and boring rules.

Knights can go too. Superheavies should be Apoc only.

That sounds like a wonderful idea.
Mind you, I would miss watching my opponent's face fall when they realise my Wulfen can bust up their points sink with Thunder Hammers after they've been stomped to death.

Bring it, I haven't lost a fight against space wolves yet. Besides An army as one dimensional as SW probably shouldn't be calling other armies boring to fight. I've tried to think of good analogy for them, and the best I could come up with is it's like fighting an army of Labrador retrievers while wearing a jumpsuit covered in tennis balls.

pm713 wrote:
Didn't seem to like the idea Sisters don't sell because they were neglected and managed as badly as the Emperor managed his children.

He probably hears this conspiracy theory hundreds of times a year and is just bored of armchair board-members commenting on areas of the business he has no control over.

If I had to cut any faction it'd be one of the snowflake chapters, any of them. There are just too many and they're becoming comical with how characterised GW is making them. Failing that I'd drop sisters, a bad attempt to add girls to this game of dolls.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Sisters of Battle. I don't want to remove anyone, but removing SoB would at least remove the least amount of content from the game.

Removing Sisters would remove FAR more from the game than generic forgettable marine variation #27,987.

Sisters are actually relatively unique, unlike the various colors of Space Marine.

I honestly wouldn't notice if Sisters were removed. I've literally never seen them on the table top.

I don't think they should be removed though. The players seem extremely passionate about them, and will stick with them through their shoddy treatment.
Sort of the opposite of exactly what I hate about the hobby - those who jump to the flavour of the month, strongest codex whenever they can.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Necrons. Boring fluff, boring models, and boring rules.

Knights can go too. Superheavies should be Apoc only.

That sounds like a wonderful idea.
Mind you, I would miss watching my opponent's face fall when they realise my Wulfen can bust up their points sink with Thunder Hammers after they've been stomped to death.

Bring it, I haven't lost a fight against space wolves yet. Besides An army as one dimensional as SW probably shouldn't be calling other armies boring to fight. I've tried to think of good analogy for them, and the best I could come up with is it's like fighting an army of Labrador retrievers while wearing a jumpsuit covered in tennis balls.

I wouldn't say Space Wolves are one dimensional and that's a....different analogy to what I normally hear.

Tyranids. The setting has the horde threat from the orks, the ancient menace from the necrons, and the big bad in chaos. Plus GW has never gotten them right as I don't think they know how to approach them in models or fluff.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I honestly wouldn't notice if Sisters were removed. I've literally never seen them on the table top.

I don't think they should be removed though. The players seem extremely passionate about them, and will stick with them through their shoddy treatment.
Sort of the opposite of exactly what I hate about the hobby - those who jump to the flavour of the month, strongest codex whenever they can.

Actually having a small Sisters force, I would certainly notice and be filled with pique and spite if Sisters were removed; and I do play them from time to time.

I got mine on something of a lark, and am glad that I kept mine.

Factions that should be dropped (from game not lore necessarily)

Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
AdMech
MT
Tyranids

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Factions that should be dropped (from game not lore necessarily)

Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
AdMech
MT
Tyranids

Nope. These are all fine.

Imperial Knights. Gotta go as a standalone army.

We implemented a local fix by allowing people to bring one as a Lord of War option. But we banned it as a standalone codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
Tyranids. The setting has the horde threat from the orks, the ancient menace from the necrons, and the big bad in chaos. Plus GW has never gotten them right as I don't think they know how to approach them in models or fluff.

Without Tyranids, there'd be no Xenomorph copy, which is somehting I enjoy. Orks are a bit too comical to fit the role, IMO.

Martel732 wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Factions that should be dropped (from game not lore necessarily)

Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
AdMech
MT
Tyranids

Nope. These are all fine.

Why? I can see arguments for all of them except Nids and Ad mech.

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Factions that should be dropped (from game not lore necessarily)

Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
AdMech
MT
Tyranids

Nope. These are all fine.

Why? I can see arguments for all of them except Nids and Ad mech.

I'm not saying remove AdMech from the lore as their lore is pretty cool and they're an essential part of the IoM. However, as their own standalone army? It just seems like it doesn't fit. I can imagine some of them as allies for Guard but that's about it, they shouldn't have their own codex. And can someone explain the difference to me between 40k and 30k AdMech outside of fluff?

For 'Nids I think they actually fit the setting pretty well and I really want to like them, I do. I just hate the way they were implemented in both crunch and fluff. Their army was nerfed into a single semi-competitive mono-build (flyrant spam) and many of their units are useless thanks to the Crudd. Their fluff is also fairly boring apart from the whole "unseen impending doom" aspect of it. Just my opinion though. For horde armies I'd prefer blob guard or da green tide any day. Their only cool looking models IMO are Hormagaunts, Lictors and Carnifexes. It's sad to see them in this state.

Imperial Knights are only making the whole Riptide/Wraithknight spam problem worse. They're clearly an attempt by GW to make more money by selling big models and there are enough mini-Titans already.

MT are pointless, a few new Stormtroopers models for IG would suffice.

Grey Knights are the worst example of Matt Ward's in terms of fluff and crunch (at least in 5th ed). They epitomise everything wrong with his Codices (Space Marine fanboyism, Mary Sues, OP units, favouritism and awful fluff).

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Factions that should be dropped (from game not lore necessarily)

Imperial Knights
Grey Knights
AdMech
MT
Tyranids

Nope. These are all fine.

Why? I can see arguments for all of them except Nids and Ad mech.

I'm not saying remove AdMech from the lore as their lore is pretty cool and they're an essential part of the IoM. However, as their own standalone army? It just seems like it doesn't fit. I can imagine some of them as allies for Guard but that's about it, they shouldn't have their own codex. And can someone explain the difference to me between 40k and 30k AdMech outside of fluff?

For 'Nids I think they actually fit the setting pretty well and I really want to like them, I do. I just hate the way they were implemented in both crunch and fluff. Their army was nerfed into a single semi-competitive mono-build (flyrant spam) and many of their units are useless thanks to the Crudd. Their fluff is also fairly boring apart from the whole "unseen impending doom" aspect of it. Just my opinion though. For horde armies I'd prefer blob guard or da green tide any day. Their only cool looking models IMO are Hormagaunts, Lictors and Carnifexes. It's sad to see them in this state.

Imperial Knights are only making the whole Riptide/Wraithknight spam problem worse. They're clearly an attempt by GW to make more money by selling big models and there are enough mini-Titans already.

MT are pointless, a few new Stormtroopers models for IG would suffice.

Grey Knights are the worst example of Matt Ward's in terms of fluff and crunch (at least in 5th ed). They epitomise everything wrong with his Codices (Space Marine fanboyism, Mary Sues, OP units, favouritism and awful fluff).

Why don't they fit though?

MT let you have a special forces army while letting you have the human theme.

I don't mind MT's existence-- I think we should have more codices, not less-- but you could do the same with Kasrkyn, Sisters, or Inquisition.

pm713 wrote:

Why don't they fit though?

MT let you have a special forces army while letting you have the human theme.

To avoid starting a pyramid I cut down the quotes.

For your question I assume you mean the Mechanicum. I'd believe the Tech-Priests would be maintaining technologies, checking for deviation from STC's and (at most) be defending their forge worlds from uprisings and Xenos. It's not their models that don't fit. It's just having them as an army that doesn't fit. I don't know too much about them but I don't imagine them mustering their own armies, on their own to go and fight Xenos. IIRC, when they want something, they petition the guard, or if it's really serious they get the Space Marines.

I get your point about the MT, they just have so few units and even fewer unique ones and if you want that feel you could just play Veteran Guard. I think they should be absorbed into regular AM TBH.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Necrons. Boring fluff, boring models, and boring rules.

Knights can go too. Superheavies should be Apoc only.

That sounds like a wonderful idea.
Mind you, I would miss watching my opponent's face fall when they realise my Wulfen can bust up their points sink with Thunder Hammers after they've been stomped to death.

Bring it, I haven't lost a fight against space wolves yet. Besides An army as one dimensional as SW probably shouldn't be calling other armies boring to fight. I've tried to think of good analogy for them, and the best I could come up with is it's like fighting an army of Labrador retrievers while wearing a jumpsuit covered in tennis balls.

I was replying to the Knight comment, not the Necron one but if we must swap insults the Necrons don't even understand what re-animation means. Come on, an undead army that no longer has the army wide ability to come back from the dead? How lame is that? On top of that the whole Egyptian theme has been done before, in Fantasy and in the Thousand Sons, by the way, the Sons did it so much better, nothing tops their awesome hats, except the army that chased them and their hats into the warp.

In terms of actual in game rules?

Imperial Knights - army of Superheavies does not need to be in 40k. Really. It doesn't. That's what Apocalypse is for. That's why the Detachments have the 1 LoW slot.

Superheavies are obnoxious because they force certain armies to have to build very specifically to deal with them - wildly off tangent from their general All Comers Lists.

KDK are a close second - they just feel redundant. It's a very weak Codex that seems to be just a better version of Khorne CSM or Chaos Daemons...yet inexplicably unable to take the figurehead Khorne CSM special character or the figurehead Khorne Daemon special character. It's like Skarbrand and Kharn were just left to languish. They don't feel like a faction. It feels like a glorified supplement to be honest and even then not really great.

As far as quietly fading into the ether to be only mentioned in fluff and never again in Gameplay as a functional army for fluff reasons?

Sisters of Battle.
Grey Knights.

It makes no sense for the relatively small or secretive forces like these to be a great whopping big army. Like, I could see as a dataslate like Inquisition - you know, a unit or two you tack onto another IoM army as allies of a sort...but a whole army?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
It makes no sense for the relatively small or secretive forces like these to be a great whopping big army

Using that argument, not a single Space Marine chapter would have a codex.

 Melissia wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
It makes no sense for the relatively small or secretive forces like these to be a great whopping big army

Using that argument, not a single Space Marine chapter would have a codex.

Space Marine Chapters have functional fleets and armouries that rival entire planetary systems.

Soritas Covenants literally sit on a planet or shrine to protect just that.

And Grey Knights are literally bogeymen called out in extreme situations that warrant their existence.

In real world terms...

Most 40k forces are the equivalent of a country's armed forces.

Space Marines are the equivalent of a prominent or famous unit or type - Marines, Paratroopers, etc.

Sisters of Battle are the equivalent of a covenant of nuns.

Grey Knights are the equivalent of something like the Ghostbusters or the A-Team.

I mean, hell, it'd be jolly fun to play the Sisters of St Mary's Chapel in Aberystwyth or whatever in Bolt Action or any other WW2 based wargame but it sure as hell doesn't make a lot of sense.

Oh look, goalpost-moving! Isn't that always fun?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Space Marine Chapters have functional fleets and armouries that rival entire planetary systems.

And number a thousand soldiers plus support staff.
I quote you:

DarkStarSabre wrote:It makes no sense for the relatively small or secretive forces like these to be a great whopping big army

This applies to every single Space Marine chapter. They are all "relatively small or secretive forces", on the same size scale as Grey Knights, and on a smaller size scale to Sisters of Battle while also being far more secretive than the Sisters of Battle are.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Soritas Covenants literally sit on a planet or shrine to protect just that.

The lore begs to differ.

Actually...
- Imperial Guard and Navy are the actual military;
- PDF are reservists;
- Stormies are the Special Forces;
- Space Marines are the extra-special Special Forces;
- Grey Knights are the extra-extra-special Special Forces;
- Knight Households are like Blackwater; and
- Sisters are akin to the Holy See's Vatican Guard. On Steroids. With 'roid rage turned to 11.

If the Holy See sent the Vatican guard out constantly on crusades, maybe, but that makes it a bad comparison to any modern army.

And if the Vatican Guard was considered to be on a level equal to that of extra-special Special Forces, for that matter, which they aren't.

That's actually part of the appeal of the Sisters to be honest, that they don't have an easy equivalent to modern forces.

It's "Buy the farm" or "Bought the farm." From World War Two Refers to crashing a plane into a field and destroying the crops. So that the Government has to pay for them (or buy the farm).

Gobbla wrote:It's "Buy the farm" or "Bought the farm." From World War Two Refers to crashing a plane into a field and destroying the crops. So that the Government has to pay for them (or buy the farm).

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:@jeffersonian000

It was a play on 'bite the bullet' and 'buy the farm'.

Just saying : )

He knows already lol

 carldooley wrote:
and I'll say it again. . . the Emperor. It doesn't require the 'squatting' of another race or army, but rather forces a breakup of the IOM. As long as they can no longer ally at BB level, I'm fine with most stuff staying as it is.

This x10.

But let the emperor go out swinging.

Have him wake up. Then command the tech priests to convert the golden throne into a huge dreadnought...and then let him fight Papa Nurgle himself right on Holy Terra. In death his walker's fingers can be permanently curled around the space that used to be Nurgle's neck.

Good ol Nurgle doesn't die, of course...just back the warp for some fish sticks and bucket of cream. The Empra' isn't so lucky...