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Mymearan wrote: I really hope the new rules will be a HUGE revamp. The current edition is a complete mess of complicated and unintuitive rules. Halfway between AoS and 7th would be perfect.
Same here. 40k needs a complete re-write/reboot of the rules.
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
The Ghostkeel wasn't too big for the Tau and obviously the FW/Breacher kit was small. So it's not outside the realm of possiblity.
Honestly? I think they have fatigue for Chaos and a lot of other factions with the small stuff. Every faction other than Tau, DE, and like one other have fairly large rosters. We have the smallest rosters so the most ways to creatively expand. Which is why you can see small stuff for us.
Chaos is kind of bloated with small stuff and many other factions. There's only so many ways you can sculpt troops without it basically just being a slight spin on an existing unit. So it kind of gets boring to create them. So they turn to the big stuff which was really lacking for most factions.
I think we'll see a return to small stuff eventually, but it will be a longer wait depending on how much your faction has of smaller things.
Or so goes my theory but trying to predict what a company does can be guesswork at the best of times and knowledge and doubly so with GW and its unpredictability.
Edit
In other words your suffering first factions syndrome. Heh. No doubt Tau, De, and Necrons will hit that point sometime in the future, but we don't get a lot of release so its far away. Chaos gets a lot and many of the other factions get tons compared to us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/28 09:50:20
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
The vast majority of the 40K kits to come out in the past two years have been infantry...
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
The vast majority of the 40K kits to come out in the past two years have been infantry...
Kind of a necessity when most of them belong to entirely new factions.
How many basic troops were redone for WHFB End Times?
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
The vast majority of the 40K kits to come out in the past two years have been infantry...
Kind of a necessity when most of them belong to entirely new factions.
How many basic troops were redone for WHFB End Times?
Pretty much none.
Eldar got new models and surprise surprise no redone basic infantry that's sorely lacking. Instead new units and vechiles.
What's last resculpt of basic infantry that's not space marines? (space marines are bit of exception as they sell like hot cake so they have good reason to go for blood angels etc variants). Tau had one. Others?
New factions aren't resculpts(duh). So just because new faction gets new infantry sculpt doesn't mean chaos is likely to get new basic chaos marines(which they need).
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
The vast majority of the 40K kits to come out in the past two years have been infantry...
Kind of a necessity when most of them belong to entirely new factions.
How many basic troops were redone for WHFB End Times?
Even if you take Harlequins and AdMech(the only two new armies) out, the majority of the kits have been infantry since 7th Edition came out (probably since 6th actually).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 11:06:40
Fire Warriors, Harlequins, Plastic Wracks, new Windriders, Skiitari, SM Tacticals, BA Tacticals?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: Fire Warriors, Harlequins, Plastic Wracks, new Windriders, Skiitari, SM Tacticals, BA Tacticals?
The one exception. New faction. Okay that's suitable though did they have existing plastics before? Not infantry. New faction. Last two are good examples but again space marines sell like hot cakes so less surprise they get. It's print money button. Chaos doesn't sell that much...
So again not much of good list for showing there's good chance existing infantry kits on chaos gets revamped...
New factions aren't relevant because well guess what? Those didn't exist before. Chaos space marine basic infantry kit does...So just because they released COMPLETELY NEW UNIT does not mean they will REDO EXISTING KIT.
So no. Still not holding much hope chaos kits will be getting revamps. New units yes. Especially terminator sized+, monsters and vechiles. But basic chaos marines or khorne berserkers or other old dated kits...Not holding my breath.
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
They redid tau firewarriors. Albeit with new unit but you could see similar dual combo upgrade for existing stuff.
Though I'm afraid you are still right. GW isn't too keen on updating or even giving new regular sized stuff. It's bigger models all the time. They seem to assume bigger model=better quality.
I see 2 ways to look at this...
The troops choices are the rank and file marines and don't have much in common with the legions or veterans and such. They'll represent the renegade factions and their armor will be more in line with loyalist so the basic troops box won't be redone.
Alternatively, they're going to have to redo havocs and noise marines due to the hybrid/finecast kits. They'll likely redo berserkers and possessed as well since they're hideous. With needing to do so many 'infantry' type models with so much in common cosmetically, they may take this opportunity to make a standard tactical box that they can simply repackage with an additional frame to make havocs, berserkers, noise marines, and thousand sons, etc.
With thousand sons coming out later this year, it may give us some indication where they're taking things. If they turn out to be a combo box that can make multiple different units, or are highly ornate then we may not get a new infantry box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 12:22:31
The majority of major releases we have seen coming out of GW in the past few years have included new basic troops, I really don't get where you're coming from with this "nobody ever gets basic troops" kick. Are there basic troop kits that need to be updated? Sure. Eldar Guardians, CSM, arguably Orks (though with the exception of the boss nob theirs have aged relatively well), Necron Warriors, and 'Nid basic troops are all pretty old.
But looking back...
Dark Eldar line relaunch: Kabalite warriors and Wytches get new plastics
Necron Line relaunch: Immortals get new plastics
Guard Update: Stormtroopers get new plastics
Eldar Update: Windriders (they are troops) get new plastics
Tau Update: Fire Warriors get new plastics
Dark Eldar 7th update: Wracks get new plastics (finecast before)
Space Marine Update: Tacticals get new plastics
Blood Angels 7th update: Tacticals get new plastics
The only major updates we've had where troops didn't get an update to my memory are the Tyranid "chapter house wave" (with the spores, flyrant kit, and big bugaboo), the recent ork update with the big gunz meganobz and gitz, and the chaos update with the dinobots. In every other launch we've had for years, basic troops choices of at least some kind get a relaunch...which makes sense because basic troops sell quite well for GW.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
According to GW itself the basic CSM kit was one of their top sellers last year along side the updated Tactical Squad box.
Admittedly that''s probably because you need it to build every infantry unit in the CSM codex that aren't Bezerkers, Terminators, Cultists or Possessed, but it selling should be enough of a reason for them to update it when they release a new codex if they use the same logic they did with the updated Tactical Squad box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 12:23:31
Neronoxx wrote: Can't wait. I've held off on a chaos army due to the plastics being older, maybe now they'll get some nice stuff?
I wouldn't expect any existing plastics to be updated. End Times is about dropping fancy new stuff, not redoing the rank and file. Expect Greater Daemons, Primarchs, daemon engines, maybe Obliterators or new Obliterator-sized superCSM.
QFT.
Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get.
the_scotsman wrote: The majority of major releases we have seen coming out of GW in the past few years have included new basic troops, I really don't get where you're coming from with this "nobody ever gets basic troops" kick.
Well, if you read what I said, you wouldn't be listing a bunch of irrelevant examples. Or you still would, I dunno. Some folks just want to be contrary. I'll give you SM Tacticals and Fire Warriors. Two examples in how many years? And neither part of a big escalating event like End Times.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
I hope there is. The game is so stagnant and lacking in possibilities nowadays.
If there is a 40k end times, then hopefully it won't end like WHFB end times did.
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
Oh God please no. This sounds absolutely horrible.
I'm perfectly fine with new model releases and updates, hell, I'm fine with daemon primarchs making their way into 40k (those who are still alive, that is).
But we are talking about GW here. They won't stop there. They barely even know how to stop, especially with all the possibilities to utterly screw 40k setting and lore to make more money off those shiny primarch models.
I can only hope that AoS disaster had teached them something, so this won't be as garbadge as end of times, but there is still much more potential for it to be bad, than to be good.
2016/06/28 14:59:00
Subject: Re:40k moves forward - The End times begin?
Liberal_Perturabo wrote: Oh God please no. This sounds absolutely horrible.
I'm perfectly fine with new model releases and updates, hell, I'm fine with daemon primarchs making their way into 40k (those who are still alive, that is).
But we are talking about GW here. They won't stop there. They barely even know how to stop, especially with all the possibilities to utterly screw 40k setting and lore to make more money off those shiny primarch models.
I can only hope that AoS disaster had teached them something, so this won't be as garbadge as end of times, but there is still much more potential for it to be bad, than to be good.
Then again AOS might have been best thing eva that has happened to FB. Finally push players needed to take the game into their own hands rather than be at the mercy of whatever crap GW throws up.
40k could benefit from same.
Either way luckily won't affect me. I switched to 2nd ed long time ago. Short of good models won't bother me either way. I have only to gain from this. Good models gets released? I can buy them. Bad models gets released? I skip them. It's not like I need them to play since I don't have to worry about being at the top of meta. Rules gets screwed? Well good luck for GW for trying to twist me from 2nd ed. Fluff gets raped? I have all the fluff I need already in books and ebay gives me rest as I wish.
So I'm comfortably on win-win scenario. It can never be bad for me. Only neutral or various level of good.
the_scotsman wrote: The majority of major releases we have seen coming out of GW in the past few years have included new basic troops, I really don't get where you're coming from with this "nobody ever gets basic troops" kick.
Well, if you read what I said, you wouldn't be listing a bunch of irrelevant examples. Or you still would, I dunno. Some folks just want to be contrary. I'll give you SM Tacticals and Fire Warriors. Two examples in how many years? And neither part of a big escalating event like End Times.
He literally just proved you wrong. All of the units he listed were basic troops from existing faction, not new releases. GW has been updating troops, you just refuse to admit it.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
the_scotsman wrote: The majority of major releases we have seen coming out of GW in the past few years have included new basic troops, I really don't get where you're coming from with this "nobody ever gets basic troops" kick.
Well, if you read what I said, you wouldn't be listing a bunch of irrelevant examples. Or you still would, I dunno. Some folks just want to be contrary. I'll give you SM Tacticals and Fire Warriors. Two examples in how many years? And neither part of a big escalating event like End Times.
He literally just proved you wrong. All of the units he listed were basic troops from existing faction, not new releases. GW has been updating troops, you just refuse to admit it.
Very scarcely. Immortals are also hardly basic troops more. Windriders ARE NOT BASIC INFANTRY! Since when is JET BIKE MOUNTED GUYS basic infantry? Try to put them on 25mm round base. Or even 32mm...That's like claiming new terminators would be resculpting basic troops!
Scions. Again elite unit. Not basic bogstandard troop. Not to mention unit that did not exists in plastic before.
Space marines sell like hotcake so that's less of surprise. Special snowflake treatment.
Only good example from that was dark eldars which was basically full range rework and even older kit than chaos.
Again bad examples for hoping basic chaos marines gets reworked. Elites, space marines, units that didn't even exists as plastic before(so hardly redoing) and then even bike unit that wasn't even part of consideration. Yes no surprise they got new unit. Not basic troop and was done like over a decade ago and was just waiting for release...So that unit was even done when the new units rather than redo's policy became effective. Gee really good indication of current policy mentioning unit that did not even fit into parameters and that was sculpted before GW shifted releases to focus on new units not existing on previous version...Yeah really good!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/28 15:09:44
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2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
