Swedish Police issue "Don't Touch Me" wristbands to start conversations that groping women is wrong.

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**Frazzled**

Respectfully, pepper spray can in no sense be considered a weapon. It is a simple nonharmful temporary deterrence system, like an airhorn.

A Glock 9mm is a weapon, it imparts permanent damage to the target.

Of course I advocate giving the women both spray AND Glocks. My Wife is armed thusly and the daughter has half of that combi with the rest coming as soon as she is legally able, by her own wish-not mine.

**CptJake**

Rosebuddy wrote:
CptJake wrote:
If groping is an issue, give each potential victim a can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun and allow them to use it.

The "Hey, your eyes are burning like the surface of the sun because you assaulted me" conversation ought to work better than the conversation started by the bracelets, and any language barrier won't get in the way of the lesson taught by pain.

Handing out weapons at a festival strikes me as unwise. I understand the impulse but there would absolutely be other consequences even beyond the fact that every weapon you carry can potentially be turned against you. "Each potential victim" means every woman and that is a lot of stun guns. It would be very difficult to keep track of where they go and which uses they are put to.

I live in a place considered relatively free so am jaded by that. I could care less about 'keeping track of where they go'. Give the ladies the tool, let them figure out if/when to use it. As for being 'turned against you', if the other option is show off your bracelet then submit to the resulting groping, I prefer my wife and daughter at least have the option/chance to fight back/deter the gak bag before he harms them. Again, I'm jaded by where and how I live. I want the women in my life to not rely on reporting an assault after the fact.

**Prestor Jon**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Rape has gone up in the UK every time the policy or law has been changed to make it less woman-unfriendly to report or prosecute it.

To me this suggests that the earlier lower stats were the result of under-reporting caused by a stronger culture of social acceptability of rape and sexual violence.

This. It's very convenient to just blame the Swedish statistics on immigrants, because it means not having to accept that there's a large segment of one's own population who are chauvinistic donkeycaves.

How recent and drastic are the changes to the sexual assault laws in Sweden? Everybody has a right to be secure in their own person and nobody should have to tolerate unwanted advances or assaults and society should discourage people from be donkeycaves. If it's just a matter of the laws being broader in scope then you should see a temporary rise in sex crimes and then it will go down as people adjust to the new laws. If behavior that was previously considered innocuous for generations becomes criminalized then it's going to take some amount of time for people to adapt to the new laws even if they're not deliberately trying to be chauvinistic donkeycaves.

**Rosebuddy**

Frazzled wrote:
Respectfully, pepper spray can in no sense be considered a weapon. It is a simple nonharmful temporary deterrence system, like an airhorn.

An air horn can cause permanent hearing loss. Pepper spray is not safe to use on a general population. Handing out guns creates more problems than it solves. *shrug* Sure, if you want to talk about militant feminism, I might be up for that but I'm sceptical of simply giving people more ways of hurting eachother. Okay, self-defence, have fun with that, but we live in a society and should have access to far more effective means of changing men's behaviour.

CptJake wrote:

I could care less about 'keeping track of where they go'.

Which is deeply irresponsible.

**Spetulhu**

Frazzled wrote:
Respectfully, pepper spray can in no sense be considered a weapon. It is a simple nonharmful temporary deterrence system, like an airhorn.

Mostly unharmful, sure. It's also not exactly a thing you should use in a crowded place unless you truly fear for your life. Defending yourself at the cost of spraying up a festival crowd could turn ugly fast if people panic.

As for blaming only immigrants we've seen that here too. Last year's influx gave rise to something called Soldiers of Odin, street patrols claiming they're defending our women against the foreigners. The problem is they've managed about zero defense, though that shouldn't come as a surprise seeing as the core is purely neonazis that already have it in for subhuman scum. As some feminist politicians asked - where were these patrols when it was just ordinary Finnish guys groping women? Nowhere to be seen that's where. It's just an excuse to go out looking for a fight.

**Frazzled**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Respectfully, pepper spray can in no sense be considered a weapon. It is a simple nonharmful temporary deterrence system, like an airhorn.

An air horn can cause permanent hearing loss.

Fair point. That means pepper spray is even safer.

Pepper spray is not safe to use on a general population.

Please support your statement with facts on why.
Also, you assume the risk by committing an illegal act. Thats settled law in English common law countries.

Handing out guns creates more problems than it solves.

Your opinion not supported by facts. If every adult woman had a firearm and was trained in its use, there would be less assaults.

*shrug* Sure, if you want to talk about militant feminism, I might be up for that but I'm sceptical of simply giving people more ways of hurting eachother.

but you seem to have no problem with leaving women at the mercy of men.

Okay, self-defence, have fun with that, but we live in a society and should have access to far more effective means of changing men's behaviour.

So you resort to bracelets. Whats next, public pep rallies. In the words of the immortal bard: sucker please.

**Easy E**

CptJake wrote:
If groping is an issue, give each potential victim a can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun and allow them to use it.

What, no one has suggested handing out pistols yet? Pfft. Is the OT even trying anymore?

**Kilkrazy**

Tank_Dweller wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Statistically immigrants are overrepresented in rape numbers because they are overrepresented in the population of young men who are the most common committers of rape..

I find this kind of talk misleading, you are stating this as fact when in reality all you can say at best is perhaps this is a factor and in which case I would agree with you, perhaps it is.

Here is an academic paper from the USA, which analyzes the statistics on the situations in Sweden and Germany.

https://eucenter.scrippscollege.edu/wp-content/uploads/files//2016/03/Davis-and-Vidler-Paper.pdf

Here is the first half of the abstract:

The New Year's Eve attacks upon women in Cologne, Germany and the subsequent allegations against
male migrants across Europe brings to light an important question. Are European women in danger from
an influx of Middle Eastern men with different social, religious and legal values? Using available data on
rates of immigration and sexual violence, and focusing specifically on Germany and Sweden, we show
that there is no direct correlation between foreign migrant influx and national rape statistics in the two
identified case studies.

To be fair to your point, this paper doesn't support my point, however it does support the argument that immigrants aren't causing an increase in rape.

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
CptJake wrote:
If groping is an issue, give each potential victim a can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun and allow them to use it.

What, no one has suggested handing out pistols yet? Pfft. Is the OT even trying anymore?

Hey what am I chopped liver? Sanctity of OT...maintained!

**Prestor Jon**

Frazzled wrote:
Easy E wrote:
CptJake wrote:
If groping is an issue, give each potential victim a can of pepper spray and/or a stun gun and allow them to use it.

What, no one has suggested handing out pistols yet? Pfft. Is the OT even trying anymore?

Hey what am I chopped liver? Sanctity of OT...maintained!

Pistols? This is Sweden, they should just tuck a bearded axe into their belts whenever they leave the house. Remember, an axe wielding society is a polite society.

**Easy E**

The only way to stop a bad groper, a good guy with a bearded axe!

When seconds count and the police are minutes away!

**jhe90**

Easy E wrote:
The only way to stop a bad groper, a good guy with a bearded axe!

When seconds count and the police are minutes away!

Viking time!

Axes. Hand axes are for all. Light and portable.

**Breotan**

Vikings? This is the 21st Century Sweden.

**Frazzled**

jhe90 wrote:
Easy E wrote:
The only way to stop a bad groper, a good guy with a bearded axe!

When seconds count and the police are minutes away!

Viking time!

Axes. Hand axes are for all. Light and portable.

Now this is whatI think of for Sweden, axes and bikini teams. Why aren't all the Swedes already armed ? I am saddened at the lack of battleaxes and bearshirts in this thread.

**Iron_Captain**

Okay, this is definitely not a good way to combat rape... Do they really think molesters will be deterred by bracelets?

Also, almost everything I read on it says that Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. It also makes it sound like Sweden has some very serious problems with out of control PC lefties. Is it really that bad or just typical internet dramatisation?
I watched this recently, and I thought it was really funny:

But please tell me this video is not correct and Sweden is not actually this bad.

**godardc**

I miss the old days when rapists / criminals were punished, instead now we distribute wristband...
Something is soooo wrong with the 21st century and Europe.
I'm very sad for Europe.

**Monkey Tamer**

godardc wrote:
I miss the old days when rapists / criminals were punished, instead now we distribute wristband...
Something is soooo wrong with the 21st century and Europe.
I'm very sad for Europe.

They're barely bothering to punish them on this side of the pond, too. It's all about the rehabilitate/hug it out approach to crime.

**godardc**

Do we have any Swedish here ? Is it really an outbreak ?

Yeah, I agrea Monkey, I hope it will change in 2017, as the patriots seem to be winning in America, France, maybe in Austria...

**LethalShade**

*Sigh*

You know the FN won't do jack gak though.

But that's off-topic.

I'd like to have some links to real, trustworthy studies about rape in Sweden.

**jreilly89**

godardc wrote:
Do we have any Swedish here ? Is it really an outbreak ?

Yeah, I agrea Monkey, I hope it will change in 2017, as the patriots seem to be winning in America, France, maybe in Austria...

Partiots?

I really hope you're not referring to people like Trump. They're just (not so) closet homophobes, xenophobes, and racists.

**godardc**

The fact a city of 44,000 inhabitants didn't turned off its light for the Earth Hour because of rape risk is enough to worry, for me:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/18/swedish-city-cancels-earth-hour-without-lights-electricity-because-of-rape-risk/#ixzz43YAyr3f7

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here are some links:

11th country (before Russia, Thailand, philippines...)

http://www.planetoscope.com/Criminalite/1202-viols-dans-le-monde.html

An EU survey:
http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2014/violence-against-women-eu-wide-survey-main-results-report

This link is in French, but you can read the graphic:

http://fr.gatestoneinstitute.org/7320/suede-viol

**CptJake**

jhe90 wrote:
Easy E wrote:
The only way to stop a bad groper, a good guy with a bearded axe!

When seconds count and the police are minutes away!

Viking time!

Axes. Hand axes are for all. Light and portable.

Yeah, when the Swede on the board is appalled at the idea of potential victims having and then using pepper spray and/or stun guns, I strongly suspect any weapon that can actually hurt someone is out of the question.

**Tank_Dweller**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Tank_Dweller wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Statistically immigrants are overrepresented in rape numbers because they are overrepresented in the population of young men who are the most common committers of rape..

I find this kind of talk misleading, you are stating this as fact when in reality all you can say at best is perhaps this is a factor and in which case I would agree with you, perhaps it is.

Here is an academic paper from the USA, which analyzes the statistics on the situations in Sweden and Germany.

https://eucenter.scrippscollege.edu/wp-content/uploads/files//2016/03/Davis-and-Vidler-Paper.pdf

Here is the first half of the abstract:

The New Year's Eve attacks upon women in Cologne, Germany and the subsequent allegations against
male migrants across Europe brings to light an important question. Are European women in danger from
an influx of Middle Eastern men with different social, religious and legal values? Using available data on
rates of immigration and sexual violence, and focusing specifically on Germany and Sweden, we show
that there is no direct correlation between foreign migrant influx and national rape statistics in the two
identified case studies.

To be fair to your point, this paper doesn't support my point, however it does support the argument that immigrants aren't causing an increase in rape.

No it doesn't it is incredibly misleading. I'm not going to pick it all apart here I do not have the time but I will show you something glaringly obvious.

To determine the viability of the proposed correlations between migrants and sexual assault rates,
the Eurostat immigration data set for Sweden and rape rate data from the Swedish National Council for
Crime Prevention (Brå) was consulted. Figure 4 below indicates the number of non-
EU immigrants
entering Sweden per year and the annual number of rapes from 2008 to 2013.

As shown by the data, Sweden has been admitting a consistent number of refugees since 2008, with slight
periods of variation. Unlike Germany’s case, it is more difficult to determine if the Swedish rape rate is
correlated with the number of admitted immigrants. However, the 95% confidence interval shown in
Figure 5 indicates that the rape rates for the years 2011 and 2012 exceeded the range in which the true
average of rap
e rate lies from 2008 to 2013.

Yet, the increases in rape rates do not follow increases in the numbers of refugees admitted. The initial
spike in rapes in 2011 was also a year in which the number of immigrants admitted decreased from the
previous year. Relatedly, in 2012, the number of migrants admitted grew, but the rape rate decreased from
the 2011 figure of 6,532 rapes to the 2012 figure
of 6,324 rapes. In other words, the expected correlations
between the rise and fall of rape and immigrants entered are not evident in the data.

This is a complete red herring they are trying to trick the reader by showing the increase in yearly immigration has no correlation with increasing rape figures but note they do not show any data from 2007 prior to when the refugee influx started en mass, now look at the graph I have added from Wikipedia which includes data from prior years and you can clearly see why they have omitted it, because it doesn't support the "facts" that they are pushing

Please don't attach nonwargaming images to Dakka. If you wish to share any such images you need to use image tags and an offsite host.
Reds8n .

**Ashiraya**

godardc wrote:
Do we have any Swedish here ? Is it really an outbreak ?

No.

I feel safe going out at night and I am a 19 year old in the middle of the danger zone.

**NinthMusketeer**

I believe the topic is referring to the epidemic that has been going on for the past 4000+ years.

**Tactical_Spam**

Ashiraya wrote:
godardc wrote:
Do we have any Swedish here ? Is it really an outbreak ?

No.

I feel safe going out at night and I am a 19 year old in the middle of the danger zone.

So as a resident Swede, how would you describe the situation?

**Peregrine**

Tank_Dweller wrote:
This is a complete red herring they are trying to trick the reader by showing the increase in yearly immigration has no correlation with increasing rape figures but note they do not show any data from 2007 prior to when the refugee influx started en mass, now look at the graph I have added from Wikipedia which includes data from prior years and you can clearly see why they have omitted it, because it doesn't support the "facts" that they are pushing.

Omitting data prior to 2007 shouldn't matter. If immigrants are more likely to commit rapes then there should be an increase in rapes every year since 2007. The increase from the first year of "en mass" immigrants should be repeated every year that a similar number of immigrants enters the country. If you add ~150,000 new immigrants between 2011 and 2013 while the number of rapes goes down then one of three things must be true: the ~150,000 new immigrants must be countered by an equal or greater amount of former immigrants leaving the country, new immigrants only commit a higher number of rapes over the first year they are in the country and then stop, or new immigrants are no more likely to commit rapes than anyone else. And either of the second two options rather conclusively disprove the idea that immigrants are somehow inherently worse than the existing residents.

Also, I'd like to point out that this is not a question of ideology here. Like it or not, the math simply does not support your argument.

**Kilkrazy**

Do you content that the data within the ranges covered does actually show a statistically significant correlation between the number of immigrants and the increase in rapes?

Or, do you claim that there was a massive increase in rapes correlated with increased immigration but it happened earlier than the years covered?

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:

Please support your statement with facts on why.

Asthma is the obvious response, there's also the possibility of capsaicin allergies.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Okay, this is definitely not a good way to combat rape... Do they really think molesters will be deterred by bracelets?

Also, almost everything I read on it says that Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. It also makes it sound like Sweden has some very serious problems with out of control PC lefties. Is it really that bad or just typical internet dramatisation?

Internet hyperbole. As an example, take the debate in Sweden about the so-called "negerboll", a small chocolate pastry literally translated as "[see forum posting rules] ball". Lately there's been calls to call it chockladboll, or "chocolate ball", instead, seeing as "neger" has been used in a derogatory sense for ages. Cue the anti-PC brigade with 0 sense of appropriateness or common decency. There's seriously a bunch of people fighting tooth and nail for their right to keep calling the pastry "negerboll", as if the fate of the world hung in the balance. To these people, any attempt to consider the point-of-view of anyone who's not in the majority (i.e. a white Swede) is cultural Marxism and PC. These people also tend to dislike homosexuals and feminists, so they're thoroughly displeased with the current situation and are thus doing everything they can to change it.

I'll also confidently say that anyone that's describing Sweden as "the rape capital of Europe" with a straight face either has an agenda or does not understand statistical comparisons at all.

godardc wrote:
Do we have any Swedish here ? Is it really an outbreak ?

Have you tried reading the thread you're responding to?

In short: no.

Slightly longer: noooooooooo.