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r_squared wrote: Not sure what you're saying here? If you think it'll be cheaper to trade with just tariffs, rather than paying a continuation towards access to the single market, you're missing the point, by quite a lot. Our imports and exports are negligible compared to the contribution towards the economy which the service sector which makes, which is about 75% of our economy. Without the passporting made possible by membership, or at least an agreed access to the single market which we will almost certainly have to pay for with a contribution of some kind, we stand to lose a lot more than any tariffs could make up for.
I am hoping there will be a way round this to make the UK the place to go do business with. I don’t have any feasible ideas at the minute.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you're not the only one.
I'm personally hoping that May's decision to remove us from the single market as a full member is because she thinks that we'll able to secure the passporting rights through some other way. That's most likely through paying for access, and that wont be cheap, seeing as how everyone knows it's our jewel in the rough. The EU kind of have us over a barrel. No other sector is close in value to our banking, and tbh many of the countries would love to tempt the financial sector into their fold, especially as they can offer passporting straight away, with minimal investment apart from setting up of a new HQ. The EU don't really have much impetuous to make it easy for us, and they can use this as leverage.
I sincerely hope that we don't get into some sort of crude brinkmanship using tax cuts, but instead have some imaginative, and so far unpublished negotiation tactics.
Either way, the services sector is also going to play hard ball with the government to ensure they get what they want too. It's a tight rope for May and the Govt to walk.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
I don't think you've seen any of Ketara's posts on Brexit. Probably because you've only just got here (not that that's stopping you from making sweeping generalisations about a lot of us here). They sum up our reasons for leaving very well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 20:50:37
The damage to the UK caused by Brexit will be unimaginable.
Unlike Norway we don't have vast oil wealth.
And Switzerland? World-renowned bankers? They admit they are massively disadvantaged by not having an EU "banking passport". Most of them have branches in London so as to be inside the EU! So as well as wrecking the UK banking industry, Brexit will see a bunch of foreign banks (and many other businesses) up sticks and leave the UK too. Going for the Swiss model would be a massive step backwards for a country that has so much of its economy tied up in banking.
What else do we do well? Like, world-leadingly well?
There's research. Colleagues in the UK are already saying they are being excluded from big collaborative European research projects as a direct result of the Brexit vote. Before Brexit has even happened. It will get worse, after. Yes, Norway manages some international research collaborations despite being outside the EU but (a) it uses some of that aforementioned oil wealth to pay about what it would pay for full EU membership, so it's paying in full without getting all the perks, which makes other EU countries want to work with it (the UK is unlikely to want to keep paying in to the EU once Brexit happens; all that dosh is earmarked for the NHS, right, LOL?); and (b) it has long-established research collaborations with the other Nordic countries. Unlike us. I spent a fair chunk of the past year setting up a research collaboration with a Swedish university under the ERASMUS+ scheme but it is likely to be a waste of time due to Brexit.
What else do we do well? Cultural industries stuff mostly. Music and films and videogames. All of which are going to be messed up post-Brexit when the freelancers all those industries used find that travelling to the UK is tougher, and working here, tougher still. I guess Ireland will pick up a bunch of our film & TV industry and animation work. They already have some cool castles and neat tax incentives.
Seriously there are like 3 or so upsides of Brexit and they are that Scotland/Ireland are likely to end up independent soon, and that the house prices in London will finally drop because nobody wants to live in the UK any more, and that we will get crazy post-apocalyptic entertainments, like Thunderdome, in the brave new post-Brexit UK, which no longer has luxuries like protection for workers that would otherwise excluded gladiatorial combat, but which does have a load of desperate wannabe gladiators due to the widespread poverty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 20:51:40
If I may point out, the British public have to my mind never had a chance to vote on what the EU developed into. When this country voted to be part of the EU it was all for free trade, not political inclusiveness and conforming to European standards.
The roadmap was set on the treaty of Rome, long before the UK was a member. It had provision for harmonised legislation, freedom of movement, a single currency (decades before it was deemed possible to introduce).
If the British voter didn't read what it was that they were voting themselves it definitely was not for lack of available information. And again, there were British politicians at the core of the key decisions taken at the EU level, politicians the British voted for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 21:18:52
Ian Sturrock wrote: ....Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
TBF, there's been a lot less frothing. I think some of the realities are starting to sink in. Either that, or there's been some mangamity in victory?
Unless its from those of us who argued that the EU was a good thing and worth staying in? I'm still pretty pissed off if I'm honest though, so occasionally I let a bit of froth slip out, accidentally.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Ian Sturrock wrote: ....Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
TBF, there's been a lot less frothing. I think some of the realities are starting to sink in. Either that, or there's been some mangamity in victory?
Unless its from those of us who argued that the EU was a good thing and worth staying in? I'm still pretty pissed off if I'm honest though, so occasionally I let a bit of froth slip out, accidentally.
Excuse me? "Pro-Brexit froth?"
What would you guys call this then?
Spoiler:
Mr Heretek wrote: Thought this would be interesting, just read last few pages and it makes me feel sick. This isn't UK politics, its the British Right Wing Thread! Anyone with a sensible left wing view is automatically wrong and told what to think by these Right Wing guys. The EU is a good thing, just shows what happens when Right wing takes over!
Whirlwind - you talk sense stand up to these Brit Republicans!
You have summed up everything you have said in this debate in that line! Unlike Whirlwind or r_squarred who actually gives you factual evidence and doesn't lie about what people say you have just spoken your opinion like it should be fact when it is 1) wrong or 2) can't be proven one way or the other
I am not British but am staying in UKatm, I have taken an interest in your voting to leave result. To me as an outsider it is people like you that misled your country. Leaving Europe is a bad, stupid and backward move. You had all those friends, free trade and you couldn't get on and left because you wanted more pumpkin pie. I think you will regret your choices and will certainly feel how hard it is to make real trade deals. You presume free trades deals are instant, in fact it takes years and years and years.
Sentinel1 wrote: I respect your opinion, but your opinion shows you are hypocritical because you state I am wrong as if it is fact when clearly it is just that you don't agree with what I have to say. I am pleased other nationals take an interest in the UK leaving the EU and I welcome more people to this debate, but I don't think you understand the reasons people voted to leave. Currently there isn't many facts to support Brexit because it hasn't been done before, we are history in the making. Of course people can pull up articles, polls and statistics that forecast bad news but it is circumstantial and usually overly negative. Now don't miss quote me I am not saying they are wrong, just it might not be as clear as it seems.
I think I do understand what is going on, so you can't say I am clueless. I might as well say you don't know what your taking about in the US politics thread because your British. That would be wrong too! Until you can prove YOUR VERSION with facts I will remain unconvinced. Also no offence but some of your ideas are not thought out, you have just as much chance convincing people Brexit would work if you said 'Just move the other countries closer to England and then the UK has all the worlds trade'. The problem with Right Conservatives is its all opinion and no truth, the left has the answers but not the guts to speak up and that's why the British people were tricked.
Ian Sturrock wrote: ....Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
TBF, there's been a lot less frothing. I think some of the realities are starting to sink in. Either that, or there's been some mangamity in victory?
Unless its from those of us who argued that the EU was a good thing and worth staying in? I'm still pretty pissed off if I'm honest though, so occasionally I let a bit of froth slip out, accidentally.
Excuse me? "Pro-Brexit froth?"
What would you guys call this then?
Spoiler:
Mr Heretek wrote: Thought this would be interesting, just read last few pages and it makes me feel sick. This isn't UK politics, its the British Right Wing Thread! Anyone with a sensible left wing view is automatically wrong and told what to think by these Right Wing guys. The EU is a good thing, just shows what happens when Right wing takes over!
Whirlwind - you talk sense stand up to these Brit Republicans!
You have summed up everything you have said in this debate in that line! Unlike Whirlwind or r_squarred who actually gives you factual evidence and doesn't lie about what people say you have just spoken your opinion like it should be fact when it is 1) wrong or 2) can't be proven one way or the other
I am not British but am staying in UKatm, I have taken an interest in your voting to leave result. To me as an outsider it is people like you that misled your country. Leaving Europe is a bad, stupid and backward move. You had all those friends, free trade and you couldn't get on and left because you wanted more pumpkin pie. I think you will regret your choices and will certainly feel how hard it is to make real trade deals. You presume free trades deals are instant, in fact it takes years and years and years.
Sentinel1 wrote: I respect your opinion, but your opinion shows you are hypocritical because you state I am wrong as if it is fact when clearly it is just that you don't agree with what I have to say. I am pleased other nationals take an interest in the UK leaving the EU and I welcome more people to this debate, but I don't think you understand the reasons people voted to leave. Currently there isn't many facts to support Brexit because it hasn't been done before, we are history in the making. Of course people can pull up articles, polls and statistics that forecast bad news but it is circumstantial and usually overly negative. Now don't miss quote me I am not saying they are wrong, just it might not be as clear as it seems.
I think I do understand what is going on, so you can't say I am clueless. I might as well say you don't know what your taking about in the US politics thread because your British. That would be wrong too! Until you can prove YOUR VERSION with facts I will remain unconvinced. Also no offence but some of your ideas are not thought out, you have just as much chance convincing people Brexit would work if you said 'Just move the other countries closer to England and then the UK has all the worlds trade'. The problem with Right Conservatives is its all opinion and no truth, the left has the answers but not the guts to speak up and that's why the British people were tricked.
LOL, A bit of enthusiasm from a new thread contributor?
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Ian Sturrock wrote: ....Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
TBF, there's been a lot less frothing. I think some of the realities are starting to sink in. Either that, or there's been some mangamity in victory?
Unless its from those of us who argued that the EU was a good thing and worth staying in? I'm still pretty pissed off if I'm honest though, so occasionally I let a bit of froth slip out, accidentally.
Excuse me? "Pro-Brexit froth?"
What would you guys call this then?
Spoiler:
Mr Heretek wrote: Thought this would be interesting, just read last few pages and it makes me feel sick. This isn't UK politics, its the British Right Wing Thread! Anyone with a sensible left wing view is automatically wrong and told what to think by these Right Wing guys. The EU is a good thing, just shows what happens when Right wing takes over!
Whirlwind - you talk sense stand up to these Brit Republicans!
You have summed up everything you have said in this debate in that line! Unlike Whirlwind or r_squarred who actually gives you factual evidence and doesn't lie about what people say you have just spoken your opinion like it should be fact when it is 1) wrong or 2) can't be proven one way or the other
I am not British but am staying in UKatm, I have taken an interest in your voting to leave result. To me as an outsider it is people like you that misled your country. Leaving Europe is a bad, stupid and backward move. You had all those friends, free trade and you couldn't get on and left because you wanted more pumpkin pie. I think you will regret your choices and will certainly feel how hard it is to make real trade deals. You presume free trades deals are instant, in fact it takes years and years and years.
Sentinel1 wrote: I respect your opinion, but your opinion shows you are hypocritical because you state I am wrong as if it is fact when clearly it is just that you don't agree with what I have to say. I am pleased other nationals take an interest in the UK leaving the EU and I welcome more people to this debate, but I don't think you understand the reasons people voted to leave. Currently there isn't many facts to support Brexit because it hasn't been done before, we are history in the making. Of course people can pull up articles, polls and statistics that forecast bad news but it is circumstantial and usually overly negative. Now don't miss quote me I am not saying they are wrong, just it might not be as clear as it seems.
I think I do understand what is going on, so you can't say I am clueless. I might as well say you don't know what your taking about in the US politics thread because your British. That would be wrong too! Until you can prove YOUR VERSION with facts I will remain unconvinced. Also no offence but some of your ideas are not thought out, you have just as much chance convincing people Brexit would work if you said 'Just move the other countries closer to England and then the UK has all the worlds trade'. The problem with Right Conservatives is its all opinion and no truth, the left has the answers but not the guts to speak up and that's why the British people were tricked.
LOL, A bit of enthusiasm from a new thread contributor?
Well you certainly know when the Heresy Preachers online! They got pretty toxic quickly, I like to have slapped *cough* continued the banter but if I did the mods would be swinging the ban hammer on us left, right and centre (no pun intended). If only frothing meant a nice cool pint of beer
Any how back to topic, I did have one bright idea about solving the potential economic pitfalls of a post Brexit Britain! We need more money! Well how do we make money you may well ask? Greenland! Yes Greenland is the key to all our woes. Greenland a big sparse landmass with very few people yet under all that ground is untold wealth: Gold, iron, lead, zinc, diamonds, uranium and oil. The UK used to be good at mining, and if anyone up top had any sense we should be setting up mining companies all over Greenland before the 'big rush'. A steady supply of valuable mineral resources would make the UK very rich indeed. What do you think?
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Thanks, I haven't heard about a lithium discovery, but if there is one good for us! It would also be handy if we found a big helium deposit on home turf, because last time I heard the current known Helium reserves (wherever in the world they are) are running out - the party balloon could become extinct! (If what I have just said is correct).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 22:32:33
On one hand it's an acknowledgement of reality (that they're not building enough homes, and tacitly; that selling off as much council housing as they have done has created a problem). So that's good. But it feels like a band aid over a gashing wound. Small steps I suppose?
Labour continues its most excellent trend of making the most wonderful announcements, but refusing to specify how any of their greener grass is to be paid for. Whilst it's entirely possible for energy rises to be capped, who's footing the difference? The Government? Will they just dictate to the companies to just completely eliminate their profit margins? If so, how will they get anyone to run the plants afterwards? Hopefully he'll deign to give some actual detail to his fantastic(al) scheme, y'know, before we're actually voting on it.
David Mundell lets on his secret fear to the press, namely that if another referendum happened Scotland might leave, costing him his only guaranteed ministerial portfolio it would get 'seriously upleasant'. And none of us want that. So can you please stop asking him about it?
Apparently waiting lists are up a large percentage. This is down to a few factors, a fair one of which is that as the population ages, waiting lists for certain types of operation (hip replacements, etc) keeps growing. The fact that NHS funding has more or less flatlined can't be helping though. The question is, where are the additional funds to keep it ticking over to be found? Things aren't as bad as they were 25 years ago yet according to Private Eye, but it's a problem that looks to keep growing.
Ian Sturrock wrote: The damage to the UK caused by Brexit will be unimaginable.
Unlike Norway we don't have vast oil wealth.
And Switzerland? World-renowned bankers? They admit they are massively disadvantaged by not having an EU "banking passport". Most of them have branches in London so as to be inside the EU! So as well as wrecking the UK banking industry, Brexit will see a bunch of foreign banks (and many other businesses) up sticks and leave the UK too. Going for the Swiss model would be a massive step backwards for a country that has so much of its economy tied up in banking.
What else do we do well? Like, world-leadingly well?
There's research. Colleagues in the UK are already saying they are being excluded from big collaborative European research projects as a direct result of the Brexit vote. Before Brexit has even happened. It will get worse, after. Yes, Norway manages some international research collaborations despite being outside the EU but (a) it uses some of that aforementioned oil wealth to pay about what it would pay for full EU membership, so it's paying in full without getting all the perks, which makes other EU countries want to work with it (the UK is unlikely to want to keep paying in to the EU once Brexit happens; all that dosh is earmarked for the NHS, right, LOL?); and (b) it has long-established research collaborations with the other Nordic countries. Unlike us. I spent a fair chunk of the past year setting up a research collaboration with a Swedish university under the ERASMUS+ scheme but it is likely to be a waste of time due to Brexit.
What else do we do well? Cultural industries stuff mostly. Music and films and videogames. All of which are going to be messed up post-Brexit when the freelancers all those industries used find that travelling to the UK is tougher, and working here, tougher still. I guess Ireland will pick up a bunch of our film & TV industry and animation work. They already have some cool castles and neat tax incentives.
Seriously there are like 3 or so upsides of Brexit and they are that Scotland/Ireland are likely to end up independent soon, and that the house prices in London will finally drop because nobody wants to live in the UK any more, and that we will get crazy post-apocalyptic entertainments, like Thunderdome, in the brave new post-Brexit UK, which no longer has luxuries like protection for workers that would otherwise excluded gladiatorial combat, but which does have a load of desperate wannabe gladiators due to the widespread poverty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I am not really seeing most of the more frothingly extreme pro-Brexit posts here due to the joys of the Ignore button.
Seconded. UK has not much industry. Secondary production. Just tertiary which is fine but maybe not enough.
U.K. certainly doesnt want the deals of Norway or Switzerland.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 22:36:13
Former moderator 40kOnline
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Sentinel1 wrote: The UK used to be good at mining, and if anyone up top had any sense we should be setting up mining companies all over Greenland before the 'big rush'. A steady supply of valuable mineral resources would make the UK very rich indeed. What do you think?
I'll take "Greenland is an overseas territory of which EU nation?" for 500, please.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Sentinel1 wrote: The UK used to be good at mining, and if anyone up top had any sense we should be setting up mining companies all over Greenland before the 'big rush'. A steady supply of valuable mineral resources would make the UK very rich indeed. What do you think?
I'll take "Greenland is an overseas territory of which EU nation?" for 500, please.
The Viking raiders of course!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 22:40:59
Greenland has a gradually increasing level of home rule and isn't a member of the EU, so talking to them about mining is quite possible.
From Wikipedia:
Greenland can gradually assume responsibility for policing, judicial system, company law, accounting, and auditing; mineral resource activities; aviation; law of legal capacity, family law and succession law; aliens and border controls; the working environment; and financial regulation and supervision, while the Danish government retains control of foreign affairs and defence. It also retains control of monetary policy, providing an initial annual subsidy of DKK 3.4 billion, which is planned to diminish gradually over time. Greenland expects to grow its economy based on increased income from the extraction of natural resources.
China will probably come knocking, so it's important to get in first. And we need to make it clear that we'll be a lot nicer and more friendly about it too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 22:50:52
On one hand it's an acknowledgement of reality (that they're not building enough homes, and tacitly; that selling off as much council housing as they have done has created a problem). So that's good. But it feels like a band aid over a gashing wound. Small steps I suppose?
It's certainly a new direction for the conservatives. As you say, small steps. Maybe we'll start to see a return to widespread council housing?
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
A very long analysis article on the BBC Website examines correlations between age, educational attainment and other factors, with voting behaviour at the referendum.
Kilkrazy wrote: A very long analysis article on the BBC Website examines correlations between age, educational attainment and other factors, with voting behaviour at the referendum.
Old, white, low-qualified people in deprived areas were more likely to vote Leave.
There is a lot of irony, and a lot of things coming full circle when you think about it.
For example, we know that in the 1970s, the Tories loved the EEC and that Thatcher pushed for the single market, so obviously, the Tories have been pro-EU for a long time. And then of course, Thatcher shut down pits, shipyards went, and sadly, the old industrial areas of the UK suffered.
So, you have these people who feel left behind, created by previous Tory actions, who end up being the people to destroy the Tory pet project and pull us out of the EU.
On one hand it's an acknowledgement of reality (that they're not building enough homes, and tacitly; that selling off as much council housing as they have done has created a problem). So that's good. But it feels like a band aid over a gashing wound. Small steps I suppose?
It's certainly a new direction for the conservatives. As you say, small steps. Maybe we'll start to see a return to widespread council housing?
Tory rhetoric these past years on housing does not match up to cold, hard reality.
I'll believe it when I see it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/06 08:34:31
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
And now Julian Assange is asking the UK and Sweden to 'restore his liberty'....
Except, it's you, Mr Assange. It's you that's chosen to restrict your liberty by hiding from a very serious charge (rape, in case anyone's forgotten) by holing up in an embassy.
You want your liberty back, just got to walk outside. Yes, you will be immediately arrested on an international arrest warrant on suspicion of rape, because PEOPLE HAVE ACCUSED YOU OF RAPE, and extradited to Sweden.
But hey, YOU'VE BEEN ACCUSED OF RAPE, so my empathy for you is pretty much nil.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Kilkrazy wrote: A very long analysis article on the BBC Website examines correlations between age, educational attainment and other factors, with voting behaviour at the referendum.
Old, white, lowj-qualified people in deprived areas were more likely to vote Leave.
Borne out in Boston, where I live.
A huge elderly, mostly ex-agricultural population, utilising the NHS to such a degree it took my wife 2 months to get a doctor's appointment, for an initial examination.
Mostly conservative, but also with a large immigrant population, it's only through luck that UKIP haven't romped it, but that maybe because the local conservative MP is a "nice young man". Lots of young, immigrant, families taking up school places and talking in their native language in public places has led to quite a but of resentment, hence the profusion of Britain First nonsense cropping up on my feeds.
However, the big increase in tax raised by local immigrants, and EU funding has supported badly needed infrastructure, like rural bus services, new bridges, and the beginnings of a relief road. That is, unfortunately, largely ignored when drunk Latvians gak in the park, or near the war memorial. A drinking ban and extra policing has mostly taken care of that, but behaviour is a problem, and creates massive resentment with the locals, unsurprisingly.
Kilkrazy wrote: A very long analysis article on the BBC Website examines correlations between age, educational attainment and other factors, with voting behaviour at the referendum.
Old, white, low-qualified people in deprived areas were more likely to vote Leave.
There is a lot of irony, and a lot of things coming full circle when you think about it.
For example, we know that in the 1970s, the Tories loved the EEC and that Thatcher pushed for the single market, so obviously, the Tories have been pro-EU for a long time. And then of course, Thatcher shut down pits, shipyards went, and sadly, the old industrial areas of the UK suffered.
So, you have these people who feel left behind, created by previous Tory actions, who end up being the people to destroy the Tory pet project and pull us out of the EU.
I suppose that's some form of justice...
Except, in this case, the "justice" will mean that the very people at the bottom are likely to be the ones who will suffer, financially, the most. So not really justice, more, self-harm?
The likely cuts in the NHS, pensions and associated benefits that will be a part of Tory handling as they try to balance the books, will also disproportionately hurt the elderly and poor. On the plus side, we might just ditch Trident, at long last.
I also think that as the economy settles, and Tory rule becomes more entrenched, we may see a strengthening for independence arguments in Scotland. Sturgeon just needs to wait, and let everyone see what's going on. If the economy starts to tank, or American business is let loose on the NHS, it's likely that'll tip the edge towards a yes.
On one hand it's an acknowledgement of reality (that they're not building enough homes, and tacitly; that selling off as much council housing as they have done has created a problem). So that's good. But it feels like a band aid over a gashing wound. Small steps I suppose?
It's certainly a new direction for the conservatives. As you say, small steps. Maybe we'll start to see a return to widespread council housing?
Tory rhetoric these past years on housing does not match up to cold, hard reality.
I'll believe it when I see it.
I agree, it's unlikely beyond lip service atm, but it is at least an acknowledgement that home ownership isn't for everyone, and the current system of private landlords has taken us back to the Victorian era, in some cases.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/06 09:00:29
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Never though I'd type this, being a lefty, but having actually met my landlady for the first time this weekend, I do feel sorry for landlords who get tarred with the same brush.
Mine is lovely. She's happy for me to remain as long as I wish and as long as I keep paying the rent.
She doesn't mind me sub-letting out the other room, as it's all on me - lease is in my name, as are the bills. I earn enough to cover all that on my own. And because I remain solely liable, she's exposed to No Risk.
She's happy for me to get some new shelves up - and has an Odd-Job Man who I've met before.
And given Saturday was the first time I've seen her since I moved in Halloween 2015, one could say she's gloriously hands-off.
Borne out in Boston, where I live.
A huge elderly, mostly ex-agricultural population, utilising the NHS to such a degree it took my wife 2 months to get a doctor's appointment, for an initial examination.
Mostly conservative, but also with a large immigrant population, it's only through luck that UKIP haven't romped it, but that maybe because the local conservative MP is a "nice young man". Lots of young, immigrant, families taking up school places and talking in their native language in public places has led to quite a but of resentment, hence the profusion of Britain First nonsense cropping up on my feeds.
However, the big increase in tax raised by local immigrants, and EU funding has supported badly needed infrastructure, like rural bus services, new bridges, and the beginnings of a relief road. That is, unfortunately, largely ignored when drunk Latvians gak in the park, or near the war memorial. A drinking ban and extra policing has mostly taken care of that, but behaviour is a problem, and creates massive resentment with the locals, unsurprisingly.
Boston is God-forsaken place of racial tension, congested traffic and the Pilgrim Hospital - I wouldn't touch Boston with a barge pole unless I have too, which thankfully isn't very often. Pretty much all towns in South Holland and the Deepings have the Boston effect to a lesser extent as well. At least here we have an outstanding Conservative MP John Haynes who speaks his mind, helps the community and has represented the area since 1997. South Lincs has always been Conservative and will likely remain so. http://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/no-justification-for-second-referendum-1-7804102 http://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/we-have-what-it-takes-to-succeed-1-7794559
In other news we are heading somewhat in a better direction with the NHS now so that people who are indeed not entitled to free health care are made to pay for it. Your thoughts?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38876527
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/06 09:38:58
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/06 09:53:33
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
It seems to me entirely fair that non-emergency foreign cases who are liable to pay ought to pay. It is the same in reverse if you go to France with your EHIC card, for example. Since there is a problem tracing people retrospectively, they should pay up front.
Ketara wrote: So contemporary happenin's in the PolitBritro:-
Government says they're going to focus on building homes for renters instead of to sell:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38873524 On one hand it's an acknowledgement of reality (that they're not building enough homes, and tacitly; that selling off as much council housing as they have done has created a problem). So that's good. But it feels like a band aid over a gashing wound. Small steps I suppose?
It was a huge mistake by the Tories to believe Council Houses would be replaced at the rate of ownership purchase. I am not against people owning there own home, but perhaps with hindsight it is easy to see how badly wrong things went. I see this as a step forward but not the final solution to the issue. Affordable housing is still unaffordable in many areas with premium prices, and also the resentment of certain developers to build them when they could be building bigger houses and sell them at a higher rate.
Ketara wrote: Labour continues its most excellent trend of making the most wonderful announcements, but refusing to specify how any of their greener grass is to be paid for. Whilst it's entirely possible for energy rises to be capped, who's footing the difference? The Government? Will they just dictate to the companies to just completely eliminate their profit margins? If so, how will they get anyone to run the plants afterwards? Hopefully he'll deign to give some actual detail to his fantastic(al) scheme, y'know, before we're actually voting on it.
I doubt Labour has a real plan to tackle the issue, the only way I see them capping energy prices is either against inflation for so many years or to nationalise the entire sector.
Tory Secretary for Scotland says another independence referendum can't happen because it would be a bit nasty http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38872823 David Mundell lets on his secret fear to the press, namely that if another referendum happened Scotland might leave, costing him his only guaranteed ministerial portfolio it would get 'seriously upleasant'. And none of us want that. So can you please stop asking him about it?
Pretty much! His seat is useless anyway, anything north or the border is firm S.N.P territory.
Apparently waiting lists are up a large percentage. This is down to a few factors, a fair one of which is that as the population ages, waiting lists for certain types of operation (hip replacements, etc) keeps growing. The fact that NHS funding has more or less flatlined can't be helping though. The question is, where are the additional funds to keep it ticking over to be found? Things aren't as bad as they were 25 years ago yet according to Private Eye, but it's a problem that looks to keep growing.
The issue will never be solved unless more money is continually pumped into it which can’t keep happening. Policies like charging foreign nationals will help somewhat but won’t make much of a dent on the issue. The NHS is on the slippery slope of relying on third party agencies.
That’s a pretty much brand new John Deere with front loader, nothing to be snuffed at! A £60,000 tractor theft is a bigger crime than you think, even if it was done for stupid reasons.
If I may point out, the British public have to my mind never had a chance to vote on what the EU developed into. When this country voted to be part of the EU it was all for free trade, not political inclusiveness and conforming to European standards.
The roadmap was set on the treaty of Rome, long before the UK was a member. It had provision for harmonised legislation, freedom of movement, a single currency (decades before it was deemed possible to introduce).
If the British voter didn't read what it was that they were voting themselves it definitely was not for lack of available information. And again, there were British politicians at the core of the key decisions taken at the EU level, politicians the British voted for.
I think there probably should have been a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty. That said, the EU is far less undemocratic than is often said or thought. The main difficulty is that we have to get along with all the other nations, and our PM can't just make decisions and set new policies.
However, to my mind, that is a problem that always exists, since treaties, trade agreements and international standards create these situations and are unavoidable. In fact the process needed to get to a workable agreement ensures that issues are examined in depth and a good compromise worked out.
At any rate, even after leaving the EU Britain cannot retreat into a little bubble, isolated from the world. My personal view is the same as Churchill's, we should be working towards a United States of Europe.
It is clear that the most crucial issue of the referendum was immigration, though. That is what May is concentrating on. Access to the single market is dependant on free movement of EU citizens, so it seems very unlikely the UK will be able to get around that point. The question is what economic damage will be caused by whatever arrangements are brought in to replace it.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Will Britain still be included in that EU-Canada trade deal? Assuming of course the European Parliament agrees to it.
Obviously, we were a signatory as part of the EU, but when we exit the EU, will the UK still have to honour the deal?
I'm scratching my head at this one...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Kilkrazy wrote: A very long analysis article on the BBC Website examines correlations between age, educational attainment and other factors, with voting behaviour at the referendum.
Old, white, lowj-qualified people in deprived areas were more likely to vote Leave.
Borne out in Boston, where I live.
A huge elderly, mostly ex-agricultural population, utilising the NHS to such a degree it took my wife 2 months to get a doctor's appointment, for an initial examination.
Mostly conservative, but also with a large immigrant population, it's only through luck that UKIP haven't romped it, but that maybe because the local conservative MP is a "nice young man". Lots of young, immigrant, families taking up school places and talking in their native language in public places has led to quite a but of resentment, hence the profusion of Britain First nonsense cropping up on my feeds.
However, the big increase in tax raised by local immigrants, and EU funding has supported badly needed infrastructure, like rural bus services, new bridges, and the beginnings of a relief road. That is, unfortunately, largely ignored when drunk Latvians gak in the park, or near the war memorial. A drinking ban and extra policing has mostly taken care of that, but behaviour is a problem, and creates massive resentment with the locals, unsurprisingly.
...
Bad behaviour by young men certainly is not the exclusive preserve of foreigners, of course.
Greenland! Yes Greenland is the key to all our woes. Greenland a big sparse landmass with very few people yet under all that ground is untold wealth: Gold, iron, lead, zinc, diamonds, uranium and oil. The 
