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If all xenos were hostile, then the Tau Empire would be at constant war with aliens instead of living with them.
The Imperium wants to kill all xenos for the same reason it wants to kill all mutants -- because the Imperium is Nazis in Space (among other things), and the Emperor is Space Hitler.
Or it was before 40K's fluff writers decided to appeal to a younger demographic.
Alcibiades wrote: If all xenos were hostile, then the Tau Empire would be at constant war with aliens instead of living with them.
The Imperium wants to kill all xenos for the same reason it wants to kill all mutants -- because the Imperium is Nazis in Space (among other things), and the Emperor is Space Hitler.
Or it was before 40K's fluff writers decided to appeal to a younger demographic.
I'm not seeing how it isn't still that. It's hardly a typical child friendly thing as it is.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Alcibiades wrote: If all xenos were hostile, then the Tau Empire would be at constant war with aliens instead of living with them.
The Imperium wants to kill all xenos for the same reason it wants to kill all mutants -- because the Imperium is Nazis in Space (among other things), and the Emperor is Space Hitler.
Or it was before 40K's fluff writers decided to appeal to a younger demographic.
Uh...the Tau Empire IS at constant war with aliens. They're constantly harassed by Orks who obviously never submit to the Greater Good, they've been raided several times by the Dark Eldar, they've barely been able to hold their own against minor hive fleets (thanks mainly to deus ex machine like bio-engineered viruses or the Imperium coming in with forces to swing it into their favour). Hell, humans technically count as alien in their case and they've yet to really deal with the existential and monolithic enemy that the Imperium represents towards them. Sure they've incorporated some xenos species but that doesn't say much given the vast bulk of xenos in the galaxy are so far hostile to them.
oldzoggy wrote: Grox are more Dinos / 2 legged gators then that they are cows ; )
They are also technically orkoid tyranid rippers according to the fluff.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
I should really read up on them again. Where is it from ?
It's old, but basically a band of orks were investigating a derelict. The crew had been devoured by Rippers that had then evolved to take advantage of new dna. All they found were these small creatures that they took home with them because they were "downright orky". And thus the squig joined the remainder of the orkoid race.
I just realized I replaced every instance of grow with squiggly in this thread... so yea. Different subject and all, but hey, you learned something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/17 20:55:39
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
I knew that there was a strnge connection between squigish beast and ripper swarms in the past but I have never heard of this one. Can you point me to the book / white dwarf I would really like to read more on this.
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The Emperor Hate Xenos because it makes
the Emperor scary and otherwise the setting would not be grimdark..
Humans are space nazis its their thing.
I like the ugly and serious design of the humans.
Fantasy racism and mutants are the space jews
and xenos well you know what is represents.
The Emperors ideology is basically to
bring humanity to its full potential through just rule
which means conquering the galaxy
and making humans the new master race
the same way the old Slanns or the Eldars.
But all of that is fethed now, now only
irrational hatred and the church remains
and its war all the time.
WAR YEA!
It's cool, grimdark and an critic of real world human history.
The Emperor is an authoritarian figure who represent the best and worst of humanity.
And who are the Xenos, originally the only Xenos where Eldar and Orks I think.
Eldars are the shiny ones, Orks the funny ones and humans slash space marines are the serious ones.
Neither Eldar nor Orks has been very supportive with humanity.
Consider what their relations are to humanity.
Orks and Eldar trade with humans
only in morbid ways, Ork mercenaries can turn on humans anytime
and Eldars trade with human rouge traders is really wierd
because humans cannot fathom Eldar economy and their needs.
The Tau are basically designed to feth with the setting,
I don't like the Tau fluff, it's so superficial.
It is what is exciting with warhammer 40k,
because its realistic and its dark.
In real life we would kill the aliens as soon as we hear about them simply because
they violates our sense of humanity.
40k races are based on space fantasy races which is so fun
and fantasy races don't get along very well.
It is a a fact all races are opposed to each other and cannot coexist
and human colonies have been attacked by aliens for so long
that everyone hates them.
All races basically wants to exterminate all other races
except for the Tau that just doesn't fit in the setting.
It's dark universe where no groups can coexist peacefully ever
and humanity has discovered that the universe
is hostile and horrible place.
Each race in 40k are non-human, there is nothing in common with humanity
because that is what an extraterrestrial would be like.
Eldars look like humans but their minds are not human.
Orks only wants to kill you, the only trade is to help the ork kill something else and then you.
Eldars, are so technologically superior that there is nothing they need from humans
and Eldars see humans as we see apes.
The Tau are designed to be an exception.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/18 00:20:19
Tau aren't an exception. They fight with some races. They subjugate some races instead of exterminate. It's just as bad if not worse. Would you rather die fighting for your independence or become a castrated mind controlled drone?
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: Tau aren't an exception. They fight with some races. They subjugate some races instead of exterminate. It's just as bad if not worse. Would you rather die fighting for your independence or become a castrated mind controlled drone?
Uhh, you know that the Farsight Enclaves are a multi-species, multi-ethnic confederation of democratically-governed worlds, right? #NotAllTau
Besides that, even taking FSE fluff into account -- where the Tau Empire proper being a theocratic dictatorship is portrayed as a bad thing -- the Ethereals' rule is still a better deal than most humans get, outside of Rogue Traders and planetary governors. Imperial commanders assumed that the gue'vesa human auxiliaries on Taros would be broken, dispirited slaves. But it turned out they were willing to fight, and fight hard, for the so-called Greater Good.
You don't have to look far to find rumours of potentially dodgy stuff that imperial Tau did, like how they may have mind-controlled the Vespids and may have sterilized the humans of Kronus. But however creepy and underhanded you find them, a Water Caste diplomat's "Hello! We would like to be friends" is better than what literally every other playable faction in 40k will offer you at first sight. With the possible exception of FSE, who really do want to be friends (albeit cautiously) rather than consume your resources and supplant your way of life.
oldzoggy wrote: Because the emperor is a technobarbarian warlord who and his empire is build on conquering all who bow before him and purging all those who don't or are too different to fit in his grand idea.
He is not the good guy in this story.
IF there is a good guy in this universe.. Who would it be? I would venture to say the tyranids as they don't have an agenda save for consumption, reproducing and moving.. Basically just pure animalistic intentions of survival.
oldzoggy wrote: Because the emperor is a technobarbarian warlord who and his empire is build on conquering all who bow before him and purging all those who don't or are too different to fit in his grand idea.
He is not the good guy in this story.
IF there is a good guy in this universe.. Who would it be? I would venture to say the tyranids as they don't have an agenda save for consumption, reproducing and moving.. Basically just pure animalistic intentions of survival.
That's more an absence of evil than good. I'd give it to Eldar or Tau. While they do horrible things to other races it's born of a need to survive whereas others like Orks do it for fun and humanity wages war willy nilly out of stupidity.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
The argument that there are 'no peaceful aliens' just isn't true. But I've had this same discussion on this site before so I'll not put the same amount of effort into making it, suffice to say in the Horus Heresy we meet a collection of space bound humans and aliens who desire no conflict with the Imperium but the Great Crusade kills them all anyway, if I'm not mistaking the last captain's line before he dies is literally something like 'we just wanted to be left alone' but its a while ago and my memory's hazy on the matter.
Then there's the aliens living peacefully with the Interex, to my knowledge we're never told of any offensive actions taken by the Tarellians before they get virus bombed, there's that alien race who was mentioned to have helped an Imperial Fleet fight off a Tyranid hive fleet then the Imperium wiped them out anyway, the Macharian Crusade met some weird Squid Aliens who tried to initiate peace talks and were very friendly with the humans but then the human general tried to just blow them up from orbit but they had a shield of some sort so he ran away.
There are more, these are what I pull from memory and can be bothered to put up. Also, yeah, as has been pointed out the Tau have multiple, over ten, peaceful alien races they cooperate with without having to genocide them. Also a sweeping statement such as 'all aliens under Tau rule are castrated enslaved mind drones' is just ridiculous and invective and shows that you've never read virtually the majority of the fluff displaying Tau interactions with humans or Kroot.
Suffice to say peaceful aliens exist. Suffice to say genocidal aliens exist. But, the thing is, everyone has to put up with those genocidal aliens. The Imperium isn't uniquely persecuted by Orks, as pointed out Orks threaten ALL RACES. But the Tau, for example, don't use the existence of the Orks and Tyranid as an excuse to argue that any alien species must automatically be exterminated.
Honestly I'm always incredibly shocked the Tau aren't genocidal to humans. They put themselves at an enormous disadvantage, as shown in Taros, because they're willing to show mercy when they're enemy is not. Farsight and other Tau commander's constant willingness to spare enemies and humans shocks me when one considers that their enemies will literally hunt down and kill every Tau man, woman and child.
But I agree the Farsight Enclaves are probably the best overall.
EDIT: Oh, also, I do find it interesting that someone argues that if there are only humans there will be no war...because humans never war with themselves, right? I mean its not like the biggest conflicts the Imperium is ever embroiled in aren't literally civil wars?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/18 20:39:26
The emporer is a xenophobic power hungry megalomaniac who is manipulating the human race to obtain enough psychic energy to empower himself into chaotic godlike entity in the warp. Not dissimilar from slannesh ascendancy into the warp by consuming billions of eldar psychic souls.
The emporer however and ironically designed his own golden throne that siphons whatever psychic power he can from humanity in order to fill up his own gas tank to make it into the warp and establish himself as the "star child" which is basically his own plan to become a god to "protect" mankind. If he truly designed the golden throne then he knew all of this was going to Happen but it was all planned and set up from the start.
gungo wrote: The emporer is a xenophobic power hungry megalomaniac who is manipulating the human race to obtain enough psychic energy to empower himself into chaotic godlike entity in the warp. Not dissimilar from slannesh ascendancy into the warp by consuming billions of eldar psychic souls.
The emporer however and ironically designed his own golden throne that siphons whatever psychic power he can from humanity in order to fill up his own gas tank to make it into the warp and establish himself as the "star child" which is basically his own plan to become a god to "protect" mankind. If he truly designed the golden throne then he knew all of this was going to Happen but it was all planned and set up from the start.
That is not what happened with Slaanesh. Slaanesh happened because of years of crazy pleasure cults.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
I like the "If the Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device" answer, myself.
It basically amounts to "Because Xenos are dicks, I wouldn't have a problem if they weren't dicks, but they are."
The thing is, the Emperor is out to maximize humanity's future. As a general rule, powerful alien empires are often opposed to his implementation of this idea.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/19 05:05:17
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
The Emperor doesn't just oppose 'powerful' alien empires. He opposes, and destroys, an Xenos encountered, as demonstrated with the group who simply wished to be 'left alone' or the virus bombing of the Tarellians.
Also humans are enormous dicks* in the setting, catastrophically xenophobic ones. There as bad as Orks and Tyranids since, like the Orks and Tyranids, they wish to extinguish all other life in the galaxy.
Although they are still several shades of horrible Necron (in the new fluff where we are told Imotekh has dozens of alien nations as his vassals), Eldar and Tau are all three preferable alternatives to Humans, Orks, Tyranids or Chaos since the first three mentioned races do not seek to eradicate all other life in the galaxy.
In fact in the Asurmen book we're even told Eldar absolutely ignored any race which did not attack them, except for the elder equivalent of hippies who would live with these races to understand 'mortality' a bit better.
If all powerful Xenos Empires were dicks then the old Eldar Empire would have eradicated mankind ages ago, Imotekh would not allow a dozen alien nations to be his vassals, Tau would not allow human subjects of their Empire to practise freedom of religion by worshipping the state religion of their xenophobic opponent and many examples beyond this I'm too tired to list.
The Emperor is a xenophobe (on top of several other serious issues) and if the only reason he can advance for his position is that SOME alien races like the Orks represent an existential threat then that's a fine justification...to commit xenocide on the Orks, but cannot be rationally stretched to justify xenocide against any alien automatically (or human too mutated, one must not forget that humans who don't fall into the correct phenotype were murdered as well).
If, on the other hand, the justification is simple 'destroy something which may POTENTIALLY threaten you before it can realize that potential' then fine...except then the Emperor, and humans, should eradicate each other first since we pose, and are historically documented within this universe to pose, the greatest threat to ourselves barring Chaos (which is only powerful and a threat to us largely because of ourselves).
*Dicks here clearly meaning more than simply being 'jerks' or 'crimes against humanity' something everyone in this setting (barring perhaps the Farsight Enclaves) practises to some extent or another. Dicks here refers to a sufficient scale of atrocity, murder and evil which is only really perpetuated in the current setting by the Chaos Gods, their servants, the Tyranid and Ork Races, the Dark Eldar and the Imperium of Man. Falling below these is most likely the New Fluff Necron, a bit below them the Craftworld Eldar, significantly below them the Tau Empire and then way at the bottom the Farsight Enclaves. Just want to clarify the use of Dicks since its clearly something stronger than the colloquial use of it we normally make use of.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/19 11:09:46
Anemone wrote: The Emperor doesn't just oppose 'powerful' alien empires.
Like I said:
Melissia wrote: It basically amounts to "Because Xenos are dicks, I wouldn't have a problem if they weren't dicks, but they are."
He probably just doesn't believe aliens that claim that they just don't want to be left alone. Like Tzeentch, he can't fathom the idea of a species not scheming to be on top of the food chain.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Anemone wrote: The Emperor doesn't just oppose 'powerful' alien empires.
Like I said:
Melissia wrote: It basically amounts to "Because Xenos are dicks, I wouldn't have a problem if they weren't dicks, but they are."
He probably just doesn't believe aliens that claim that they just don't want to be left alone. Like Tzeentch, he can't fathom the idea of a species not scheming to be on top of the food chain.
Exactly. It is pragmatism in a sense, he believes (rightly for the most part) that given the opportunity every xenos race would eradicate all of humanity in a heartbeat if it meant a better situation for their own species. So why bother giving them the opportunity?
The thing is that most xenos want humanity dead because of their stupid hostility. If the Emperor had been rational and attempted to make alliances then humanity could have a stronger position than the current guaranteed extinction scenario.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: The thing is that most xenos want humanity dead because of their stupid hostility. If the Emperor had been rational and attempted to make alliances then humanity could have a stronger position than the current guaranteed extinction scenario.
Incorrect. The disposition of Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and Necrons in regards to humanity have nothing to do with how hostile humans have or haven't been. Craftworld Eldar would likely have cooperated with, or at the very least ignored, humanity if not for the Imperium's xenophobic policies but they would still gladly sacrifice billions of humans if it meant putting one of their craftworlds in a more favorable situation.
Remember the Long Night after the birth of Slaneesh?
That is when all trade and alliances with xenos crumbled and they set upon feasting the isolated and defenceless worlds of humanity.
The Emperor remembered. He did not forgive. He does not want this to happen again.
It is grim, it is dark, he is racist - for a reason. You do not call someone that is worried about a fire a firephobe after he saw is house burn down.
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pm713 wrote: The thing is that most xenos want humanity dead because of their stupid hostility. If the Emperor had been rational and attempted to make alliances then humanity could have a stronger position than the current guaranteed extinction scenario.
Incorrect. The disposition of Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and Necrons in regards to humanity have nothing to do with how hostile humans have or haven't been. Craftworld Eldar would likely have cooperated with, or at the very least ignored, humanity if not for the Imperium's xenophobic policies but they would still gladly sacrifice billions of humans if it meant putting one of their craftworlds in a more favorable situation.
You're telling me that there are so few species in the GALAXY that four makes a majority?
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: The thing is that most xenos want humanity dead because of their stupid hostility. If the Emperor had been rational and attempted to make alliances then humanity could have a stronger position than the current guaranteed extinction scenario.
Incorrect. The disposition of Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and Necrons in regards to humanity have nothing to do with how hostile humans have or haven't been. Craftworld Eldar would likely have cooperated with, or at the very least ignored, humanity if not for the Imperium's xenophobic policies but they would still gladly sacrifice billions of humans if it meant putting one of their craftworlds in a more favorable situation.
Na eldar are not the friendly or even spathic neighbours you want them to be to them we are vermin, cattle or apes at best.
A large faction of those murderous pointy eared xenos soul preys upon the weak and steal their loved ones in the night while poisoning and slaughtering the rest.
The other factions ignore you until they predict that you planet of civilisation somehow interferes with their grand plans. Then they exterminate you like the vermin we are to them.
It might be best to consider all playable xenos races as a serious threat to humanity. What would be the fun in playing a peaceful and harmless race in a tabletop wargame.
Note that this does not mean that there are no harmless npc races it is just that you can't play them as a player
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Hive Fleet Grootslang 
