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I'm really confused about the strength and armor penetration of bolters and chainswords. Can they pierce through power armor? What is their limit in general? Is there any accurate instance in any story where this is shown? As well as what do bolts do to an unprotected body (can their explosion rip an arm off for example)?

High power explosive bolter round thats not very accurate.

Its does not really pierce more then it just blasts thought it. not very effective against hardened armored targets as the blast is very easily absorbed. Very good against fleshy targets.

Chains swords are as effective as a saw blade against armor.

Problem is writing is never consistent, so it will depend. But you are guaranteed it will blow off arms and or bodies.

Generally, they're as powerful as whatever they're in needs them to be. If they need to kill a Space Marine, they will. They won't have an easy time of it if whoever's writing it all cares at all about the lore, but they'll manage it in the end. What they can or cannot pierce doesn't really matter if they don't need to pierce it; a lucky shell through a marine's eye could be what does the job, or running a chainsword through a patch of soft armour. The only time that whether PA can be penetrated by bolt shells or chainswords or not comes into play is when the PA user needs to survive.

I suppose the basic answer is: no, they cannot penetrate solid power armour--ignoring weaknesses like soft armour etc, at least not easily or without many repeated attempts, or a lot of strength in the case of chainswords--although Eldar versions tend to be monomolecular, which is a separate can of worms.

As for bolt damage to unarmoured flesh, against humans it's known to range from blasting limbs off, to blasting limbs apart, to blasting an entire person apart; Orks tend more towards lost limbs, but entire detonations aren't exactly uncommon in some fluff.

Though, quite frankly, if Orks can get detonated by a single bolter shell, then Marines can as well. It's just less likely to be explosively spectacular because of armor. More likely they just get liquefied inside of their power armor by it.

I will point out that there is much inconsistancy; MKV PA for example is said to have extra plates of plasteel welded on for the purpose of extra defense vs enemy bolters, suggesting that Bolts can penetrate PA but only just.

Unarmed targets hit with bolts explode outright. A human is annihilated by bolts. An ork can lose limbs or heads or majority of their torso.

In storm of iron a clip took off a leg and a hit took a unarmoured humans entire torso out at times.

When needed. Very effective..
And a chainsword vs flesh... Very bad news for flesh

Bolter shells can't penetrate power armor reliably. That's why they had to make Vengeance rounds.

I can't remember where I got it from, but Chainswords were supposedly able to chip parts off power armour without taking damage when used properly. Proper wielding of a chainsword would be pretty much like using it as a giant metal whacking stick, with some cutting power if you aimed for soft spots, like the back of the knee on power armour.

Boltguns as far as I care act like they do in Space Marine. They make a lot of noise, and make enemies go KASPLOOM.

As well as what do bolts do to an unprotected body (can their explosion rip an arm off for example)?

A .50 calibre non-explosive round can easily take an extremity off.

Bolt rounds are 0.75 calibre (bigger) and explosive. So yes, whilst you may need repeated hits to crack ceramite, or a careful aim to hit weak spots, if you actually hit flesh, you get person salsa pretty reliably.

My understanding is that the armour piercing tip on a bolter and its explosives means it's not likely to just bounce off armour plate.
Each bolter round will do damage, successive bolter rounds chewing through an area of plate.

Likewise, the chainswords adimantium teeth can chew through plasteel/ceramite plate like a chainsaw through hard wood- a glancing swing won't be enough to get through. A thrust that gets past the enemy's guard can be followed through- forcing the blade to cut its way through a breastplate.
The angle is important- the teeth might just slide off if it doesn't come in square.

Finally, consider that a power armoured suit won't offer the same protection all over, even in plated areas. The arms are visibly less armoured than the lower leg, the chest is visibly less armoured than the pauldrons.

A solid chain weapon strike or bolt to the arm might dismember the marine without having to hit the seals.

s4ap5
seems like the emperor(or whoever) created the bolt gun, made it so that they have the power to wound sth as resilient as a marine, and at the same time cut through xenos, who are usually not as big as spacemarines or have lighter or even no armour.

 Melissia wrote:
Though, quite frankly, if Orks can get detonated by a single bolter shell, then Marines can as well. It's just less likely to be explosively spectacular because of armor. More likely they just get liquefied inside of their power armor by it.

Orks are unarmoured. Marines who are naked just as tough if not tad tougher also have armour that's itself for example pretty much impervious to lasgun level caliber.

Bolter can kill marine but by no mean easy task.

Bolters are a lot like the 75mm gun shooting HE on early war M4s. Against light armor, like halftracks and opels, (4+ and 5+) you're going to penetrate and detonate within, causing massive trauma and essentially instant death.

Against medium armor, like against a Panther, (3+ save here) penetration is much sketchier, although targeting weak spots can net a skoshi pen. This is difficult, considering the speed, agility, and situational awareness of most targets bearing that level of protection.

Then finally against heavy armor, like a Tiger (2+ save) the bolter is really only going to be good at announcing your presence and getting your demonically prolapsed by a traitor marine's claw hand. Bad times, man.

People knock the AP system in the game a lot, but it's actually more true to life than the old fantasy system of armor modifiers.

Carapace is decent against it, but getting bolted can't be fun even if it detonated outside the armor

There is no consistent answer.

You will find that what people tell you largely depends on their faction of choice.

 Ashiraya wrote:
There is no consistent answer.

You will find that what people tell you largely depends on their faction of choice.

I play Guardsmen. I say bolt shells make humies go KASPLOOM, and that chainswords make humies go all over the shop.

Limbs falling from the sky, and a nice carpet of blood.

Flak armour may as well be confetti.

Largely, not entirely!

(You also use those weapons yourselves!)

 Selym wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
There is no consistent answer.

You will find that what people tell you largely depends on their faction of choice.

I play Guardsmen. I say bolt shells make humies go KASPLOOM, and that chainswords make humies go all over the shop.

Limbs falling from the sky, and a nice carpet of blood.

Flak armour may as well be confetti.

Flak armor is ironically more efficient than power armor vs the dreaded scatterlaser.

How? Scatter lasers are Ap6, both get their saves. The Guardsman will survive 1/3 of wounds, the SM will survive 2/3.

In fluff, the power armour pretty much always wins out on anything, unless someone really has a hardon for killing marines.

Unless you're directly comparing the points of a base IG to a base SM, in which case sure.

 Selym wrote:
How? Scatter lasers are Ap6, both get their saves. The Guardsman will survive 1/3 of wounds, the SM will survive 2/3.

In fluff, the power armour pretty much always wins out on anything, unless someone really has a hardon for killing marines.

Unless you're directly comparing the points of a base IG to a base SM, in which case sure.

It probably is points. Martel does not believe in the background.

Martel, please, you know you're not supposed to come here and say things like that. This is the Background forum.

*Gently escorts Martel back to the 40k Tactics retirement home*

I would say that it depends a lot on the power armor itself. Like all armor, it doesn't offer consistently the same level of protection to the entire body. Space Marine pauldron, knees and chest plate are massive and heavily armored. You will never see a bolt passing through these portion of the armor, but there is a weakness between the chest and abdominal plates, the neck, beneath the arms and around the waist. There, a bolt could cause damage. As for a chansword, the strength of the person weilding it will have a major impact. A Space Marine will hit with frightening strength and will be able to keep the blade in place while it saw through the ennemy instead of bouncing back when it hits a hard surface. Ironically, I would say the chainsword is more dangerous, no matter the user, because its easier to target the weaker part of the armor in close combat than at distance.

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:
How? Scatter lasers are Ap6, both get their saves. The Guardsman will survive 1/3 of wounds, the SM will survive 2/3.

In fluff, the power armour pretty much always wins out on anything, unless someone really has a hardon for killing marines.

Unless you're directly comparing the points of a base IG to a base SM, in which case sure.

It probably is points. Martel does not believe in the background.

Damn straight its on points. What else matters? Certainly not fanfic.

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:
How? Scatter lasers are Ap6, both get their saves. The Guardsman will survive 1/3 of wounds, the SM will survive 2/3.

In fluff, the power armour pretty much always wins out on anything, unless someone really has a hardon for killing marines.

Unless you're directly comparing the points of a base IG to a base SM, in which case sure.

It probably is points. Martel does not believe in the background.

Damn straight its on points. What else matters? Certainly not fanfic.

I'd say it's the canon but we know where that goes.

Canon is fanfic that GW was foolish enough to pay an author to write.

Okay. Go back to other forums where people don't talk about it.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Bolters are a lot like the 75mm gun shooting HE on early war M4s. Against light armor, like halftracks and opels, (4+ and 5+) you're going to penetrate and detonate within, causing massive trauma and essentially instant death.

Against medium armor, like against a Panther, (3+ save here) penetration is much sketchier, although targeting weak spots can net a skoshi pen. This is difficult, considering the speed, agility, and situational awareness of most targets bearing that level of protection.

Then finally against heavy armor, like a Tiger (2+ save) the bolter is really only going to be good at announcing your presence and getting your demonically prolapsed by a traitor marine's claw hand. Bad times, man.

People knock the AP system in the game a lot, but it's actually more true to life than the old fantasy system of armor modifiers.

I think you are seriously confusing a 75mm weapon with a .75 caliber one.

I dunno, bolters are powerful stuff and it would not surprise me if they were considerably above the .75 of today.

Indeed, that bolters are .75 is not consistent either.

Still doesn't come anywhere close near 75mm

 amanita wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Bolters are a lot like the 75mm gun shooting HE on early war M4s. Against light armor, like halftracks and opels, (4+ and 5+) you're going to penetrate and detonate within, causing massive trauma and essentially instant death.

Against medium armor, like against a Panther, (3+ save here) penetration is much sketchier, although targeting weak spots can net a skoshi pen. This is difficult, considering the speed, agility, and situational awareness of most targets bearing that level of protection.

Then finally against heavy armor, like a Tiger (2+ save) the bolter is really only going to be good at announcing your presence and getting your demonically prolapsed by a traitor marine's claw hand. Bad times, man.

People knock the AP system in the game a lot, but it's actually more true to life than the old fantasy system of armor modifiers.

I think you are seriously confusing a 75mm weapon with a .75 caliber one.

Plus a Panther is much better armoured than a Tiger.

Talking of WW2. On the eastern front the German and Soviet snipers were known to use explosive rounds. The German ones were not as effective and would some times pass through before detonation. However the soviet rounds would put a fist sized hole in a torso or blow arms off. I belive a .75 caliber rocket will do a lot more than that.