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 Manchu wrote:
Unfotunately, it seems that the ship in the trailer is the Shenzhou rather than the Discovery.

For clarification, this series takes place in the Prime aetting and NOT in the so-called JJverse.

They can say that all they want, but it clearly doesn't.

They should just come out and admit they like the Kelvinverse but can't legally use it. "Welcome to Celsius."

Or just set the damn show in future-future instead of the future-past!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They can say that all they want, but it clearly doesn't.

Literally the exact opposite of how fiction works.

 Manchu wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They can say that all they want, but it clearly doesn't.

Literally the exact opposite of how fiction works.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Aligned

In the above example, Hasbro states how three disparate series are the same continuity, when there is no way that works. They even mention the "squint test" to plead their case. If you can tell me that the WFC/FOC verse is remotely like Rescue Bots or TF: Prime, then I'll agree with you with the Trek verse. If not, you have a clear example to compare to as far as intention vs. execution.

 Ahtman wrote:
I didn't realize half-human/half-Vulcan was so common.

Vulkans look all logical, but throw down some tequila shooters and they party like rock stars.

 Manchu wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They can say that all they want, but it clearly doesn't.

Literally the exact opposite of how fiction works.

First of all, I think we're talking at cross purposes. I am aware of "how fiction works." I've also spent enough time in fandom to swe just how unprofitable it can be (over time) for a franchise to shovel gak at paying customers and force them to mix it into the delicious product they already know and love. Besides, it can always be retconned a la Superman Returns.

Second, "works" is far too optimistic a word to apply to a sci if prequel.



If Gene Roddenberry himself told me that DSC was canon I would ignore him as he'd clearly be a few midi chlorine short of a Jedi counsel.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I've also spent enough time in fandom to swe just how unprofitable it can be (over time) for a franchise to shovel gak at paying customers and force them to mix it into the delicious product they already know and love.

It is true we all like the original series with adventure and thoughtfulness combined then they tried to shove that crap hole The Next Generation on us with its tea drinking and talking about their feelings. Ugh, just terrible.

Personally, I'm not seeing why the hate here. . .

EVERY sci-fi show/movie has been constrained in some manner by the technology of the day. Personally, I think things look about right, and I can't see show creators looking at the 1960s set saying, "we need our new ship set to look old and dirt cheap like this one!"

Im firmly in the camp of asking why they didnt make a show post Voyager era, or move the current timeline on with a new series. So many possiblities left unexplored.

I'll give it a shot being a total Trekky nerd but it hasnt really grabbed me thusfar.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I've also spent enough time in fandom to see just how unprofitable it can be (over time) for a franchise to shovel gak at paying customers and force them to mix it into the delicious product they already know and love

Sure but it's kind of an issue that those two categories are absolutely subjective. For example, I unironically agree with:

 Ahtman wrote:
It is true we all like the original series with adventure and thoughtfulness combined then they tried to shove that crap hole The Next Generation on us with its tea drinking and talking about their feelings. Ugh, just terrible.

I guess as a "true fan" I tend to like a very small amount of ST, hold it up as the ideal, and then shake my head in disappointment at the rest. That said, only the owner of the IP has the capacity to declare in which fictional setting a fictional story takes place.

 Manchu wrote:
That said, only the owner of the IP has the capacity to declare in which fictional setting a fictional story takes place.

Nope. I get to make that decision for myself. It is like deciding whether or not Star Wars prequels actually exist or not. They do not, for the record, exist. Can you imagine how just terrible they would be if they did?

What you're describing (evincing) is a kind of nervous disorder brought on by chronic exposure to toxic sequels, prequels, reboots (soft and hard), reimaginings, and parallel timelines.

I'm sorry, there is no cure.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That said, only the owner of the IP has the capacity to declare in which fictional setting a fictional story takes place.

Nope. I get to make that decision for myself. It is like deciding whether or not Star Wars prequels actually exist or not. They do not, for the record, exist. Can you imagine how just terrible they would be if they did?

Its ok, the Prequels are just a Bob Newhart moment when the Grand Moff Tarkin wakes up and realizes it was all just a really lame dream. whew!

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That said, only the owner of the IP has the capacity to declare in which fictional setting a fictional story takes place.

Nope. I get to make that decision for myself. It is like deciding whether or not Star Wars prequels actually exist or not. They do not, for the record, exist. Can you imagine how just terrible they would be if they did?

Its ok, the Prequels are just a Bob Newhart moment when the Grand Moff Tarkin wakes up and realizes it was all just a really lame dream. whew!

Makes sense. And explains the slippers.

 Ahtman wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I've also spent enough time in fandom to swe just how unprofitable it can be (over time) for a franchise to shovel gak at paying customers and force them to mix it into the delicious product they already know and love.

It is true we all like the original series with adventure and thoughtfulness combined then they tried to shove that crap hole The Next Generation on us with its tea drinking and talking about their feelings. Ugh, just terrible.

Best to think of them as separate continuities. It's how I sleep at night.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Personally, I'm not seeing why the hate here. . .

EVERY sci-fi show/movie has been constrained in some manner by the technology of the day. Personally, I think things look about right, and I can't see show creators looking at the 1960s set saying, "we need our new ship set to look old and dirt cheap like this one!"

First, the point doesn't really hold up, since we've been "back" to TOS several times in the latter series where they had the chance to use better special effects to update the look, and instead they reinforced that yes, things really did look like that in-canon, primary colours, blinky-lights and all. Second, even if the point is accepted for the sake of argument, then there's a vast chasm of difference between updating the existing look with modern technology and creating a completely new look - nothing in that trailer looks like it comes from TOS. Not the ships, not the uniforms, not the space suit, none of it ties back to Prime TOS even a little - you could just as easily say this show was set ten years after DS9 as ten years before TOS, so little does the updated appearance relate to the classic one.

Which is what's so silly about the whole thing - it's so obviously not TOS in aesthetic, and there are no main TOS characters, so why set it in Prime TOS at all? If they wanted to make a JJTrek show without having to actually negotiate for the right to call it that, they could just have left it ambiguous. They clearly hope they can tap both existing fans who want more Prime universe material and also JJTrek fans at the same time but it's just such a wasted opportunity.

EDIT: To use an analogy - what Bethesda did with Fallout was using modern technology to update an existing franchise aesthetic. People will obviously have different degrees of satisfaction with the result, but there's no arguing that the T-51b armour in Fallout 4 is fundamentally linked back to the Power Armour in the original isometric games, and the same holds true across most of the newer games. This nuTOS thing would be like if Bethesda had made their Fallout games look like Mass Effect - the graphics are certainly better, and there would be things they could justifiably claim to be suits of sci-fi powered armour, but they wouldn't be visually related to the originals in any meaninful way.

 Manchu wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I've also spent enough time in fandom to see just how unprofitable it can be (over time) for a franchise to shovel gak at paying customers and force them to mix it into the delicious product they already know and love

Sure but it's kind of an issue that those two categories are absolutely subjective. For example, I unironically agree with:

 Ahtman wrote:
It is true we all like the original series with adventure and thoughtfulness combined then they tried to shove that crap hole The Next Generation on us with its tea drinking and talking about their feelings. Ugh, just terrible.

I guess as a "true fan" I tend to like a very small amount of ST, hold it up as the ideal, and then shake my head in disappointment at the rest. That said, only the owner of the IP has the capacity to declare in which fictional setting a fictional story takes place.

Again, a good reason to consider the series to have separate continuities. I imagine all of Kirk's heroics take on a sickly cast when you realize the infant in the crib he saved was the Starfleet of Voyager.

Personally, I enjoy both TOS and TNG, but in different ways and for different reasons. While the studio has the capacity to declare official canon, for me and plenty of fans like me their proclamations are less than useless. If they have to declare their strikingly different show is in the same continuity, then it isn't. It's not like Star Trek fans have trouble with multiple timelines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Personally, I'm not seeing why the hate here. . .

EVERY sci-fi show/movie has been constrained in some manner by the technology of the day. Personally, I think things look about right, and I can't see show creators looking at the 1960s set saying, "we need our new ship set to look old and dirt cheap like this one!"

Which is why Rogue One tried so hard to establish a new visual lexicon for the Star Wars universe. Because who cares how the original looks? This is just a prequel. It doesn't have to mesh, guys.

then they tried to shove that crap hole The Next Generation on us with its tea drinking and talking about their feelings. Ugh, just terrible.

Hmmm? TNG had some genuinely classic sci fi episodes. Really thought provoking stuff especially when watching them circa 1993 et al.
Sure it had some stinkers too but with what 178(?) episodes it was never going to be fully consistent especially with the model they used of multiple (almost random) script writers.
It did miss a beat by not having more over arching plot arcs but some of the stand alone pure sci fi episodes were terrific.

I think the point is that one was "Wagon Train To The Stars", and the other was "Every Sidney Episode Of MASH In Space".

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Again, a good reason to consider the series to have separate contI imagine all of Kirk's heroics take on a sickly cast when you realize the infant in the crib he saved was the Starfleet of Voyager.

Best thing I have read on the internet for a long while.

Of course, Voyager is an easy target. It started to go very, very wrong woth TNG. DS9 is likeable (to the extent it is) because it understands as much.

 Just Tony wrote:
I think the point is that one was "Wagon Train To The Stars", and the other was "Every Sidney Episode Of MASH In Space".

Anyone besides me old enough to get the reference?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I think the point is that one was "Wagon Train To The Stars", and the other was "Every Sidney Episode Of MASH In Space".

Anyone besides me old enough to get the reference?

Oh yea.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
I think the point is that one was "Wagon Train To The Stars", and the other was "Every Sidney Episode Of MASH In Space".

Anyone besides me old enough to get the reference?

I got it. And I actually liked Dr. Sidney Friedman.

I too got the reference.

I'm not even that old and I got it XD

Yay! I started a fossil club on here!!!! I'm also old enough to remember the premier of Battle Of The Planets in the US.

Apparently the internet is really upset because this new tv series is performing white genocide...

 Compel wrote:
Apparently the internet is really upset because this new tv series is performing white genocide...

'The internet' isn't upset. A small subset of the internet that dislikes any suggestion that white people aren't the dominant species in the universe is upset that a show that has always been about diversity has a diverse cast.

 insaniak wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Apparently the internet is really upset because this new tv series is performing white genocide...

'The internet' isn't upset. A small subset of the internet that dislikes any suggestion that white people aren't the dominant species in the universe is upset that a show that has always been about diversity has a diverse cast.

I wonder how much cross over that subset has with the section of the internet that's all pissy about some movie theaters doing "women only" screenings of "Wonder Woman"...

If there's anything to be upset about, it's that CBS is coupling Star Trek: Discovery with their streaming service last I saw.

 Kanluwen wrote:

If there's anything to be upset about, it's that CBS is coupling Star Trek: Discovery with their streaming service last I saw.

This right here is literally the only thing I'm upset about in regard to ST. . .