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I dunno. But from what others have said, they'll be revisiting the Klingon characters as well in Season 2 (which is already ordered).

So here's hoping we see continued fallout from this. And as Burnham said, Klingon's respect strength. That it's a Federation weapon may be of little import, because it's still L'Rell holding the trigger.

She's showing strength in holding the biggest gun, but also in standing up to all the noble houses, and declaring herself leader in the name of unification.

There's a lot left to be explored there, and only time will tell.

I just finished it up and feel, yeah they fumbled the landing. Some take aways...

Glad that Ash Tyler's plot was more complex than 'LOL I'm the evils'. I think they painted themselves a bit into a corner by listing all the tests they'd done (off screen) which still didn't reveal anything (I laughed at the Manchurian test, hopefully it involved a lot of Frank Sinatra Songs). Sorry to see him go.

The death of doctor Culber was a shock, not only because he was a nice guy but also because I would have thought 23rd C medicine could patch up something as minor as a broken neck. Wasn't there a line about them being able to bring someone back within 30 minutes of death? But then we don't know how long Stamets dragged him around the air vents.

Doug Jones who plays Saru deserves special credit for doing a great job under all that makeup. Not since G'Kar in Babylon 5 can I remember such a good job.


Lorka will be back, he fell into the giant plot device thingy and is part of the spore network now. So either Mirror Lorka will be back or we'll learn that OG Lorka somehow survived.

I might care more about the 80,000 souls on Starbase 1 if we'd see some of them, or met them, or just heard them crying for mercy. Lots of ways to tug at our heartstrings and they used none of them. Just a space station with some graffiti.

The ending was rushed with way too many 'we can't do it! Yes we can!' moments. "We lost the war! No, we just lost 10% of our territory". "We don't have any spores! Meh, just terraform the planet in 5 minutes." "We don't have a map of Kronos (don't ask me to spell Klingon)! But we do know where every cave is!" "I'm fine with a scouting mission so we can bomb Kronos to the stone age, but setting off the volcanoes is a bridge too far!" And so on... Too many mini crisis that had to be resolved just leaves the plot with too many holes. Dial it back a bit. Leave out the bit about using ALL the spores, just say we have almost none and you save yourself the pointless terraforming plot (though it was pretty).

Worst stealth/scout team evah! "Watch her like a hawk"=Let her go get laid which you get high. So the sex slaves know where the secret temple is?

So how fast did wasshername convince everyone to make her the leader? Fast enough for the whole fleet to get the word and turn around? Without firing a shot?
After it was established that the houses were divided and that they would never let the humans go until they were all dead? What? Not since Babylon 5 such an anticlimax.

Yay medals!

Fearful about 'pick up the new captain on Vulcan'... better not be Spock.

Oh crap the Enterprise. Look I've been able to turn off my OCD fanboi-ness by just pretending this is set 50 years after Voyager. Don't rub my nose in your comtempt for what has gone before the established rules of the series. Just don't. Really. I don't need to see the Enterprise updated, I saw it updated in... 1980, 1988, 2000 and 2009. TELL A NEW @#$%ing story. This is the third reboot/flashback series in a row, it's the one thing that annoys me about an otherwise decent show, please don't call attention to that fact.

Will I be back?

I got Disco on Netflix because I'm overseas (Netflix has international rights, CBS has US rights) but when I'm back in the US this summer I don't think I'll pay to see this. Sorry I like it but... I'll probably catch up in 2019 when I go overseas again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and latest on season 2:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-boss-gets-candid-big-delays-season-2-1042520

Given the intensive production schedule for Discovery, is this a show that will air every year or is it going to be less frequent? The second half of this season comes out in January. If you were to get a quick season two order, when could you presumably have the first episode of season two ready to air?

There have been preliminary conversations about when and how [a second season could air] and we've been very consistent in our message, which is that rather than announce a date and have to push again, let's take into consideration everything we've learned from this season. Now we know what we can do and where the sand traps are, so let's give ourselves ample time to announce a date that makes sense to everybody — both the needs of production and CBS. Breaking story is, in some ways, the easier and faster thing; it's the ability to execute on it that's much harder. We want to take the right amount of time and don't want to rush.

So ideally, season two could bow in 2019?

Ideally, on the early side of 2019.

[quote=The ending was rushed with way too many 'we can't do it! Yes we can!' moments. "We lost the war! No, we just lost 10% of our territory". "We don't have any spores! Meh, just terraform the planet in 5 minutes." "We don't have a map of Kronos (don't ask me to spell Klingon)! But we do know where every cave is!" "I'm fine with a scouting mission so we can bomb Kronos to the stone age, but setting off the volcanoes is a bridge too far!" And so on... Too many mini crisis that had to be resolved just leaves the plot with too many holes. Dial it back a bit. Leave out the bit about using ALL the spores, just say we have almost none and you save yourself the pointless terraforming plot (though it was pretty).

Worst stealth/scout team evah! "Watch her like a hawk"=Let her go get laid which you get high. So the sex slaves know where the secret temple is?

Of course once the whole show is out I could sign up for a month (do they have a free trial?) and binge watch.

But if it's not starting till 2019 I can wait till I'm back overseas.

Short answer, i ain't paying anything additional to watch this.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Instead, they were intent on targeting military installations only. And as the only surface scans they had were black market and out of date, hence the scanning scheme they came up with. The plan was never wholesale genocide.

The plan was pretty much always wholesale genocide (except for a very brief moment before someone talked to Georgieu), the only difference was, the only people who needed to know that were Starfleet Command, Sarek and Georgieu.

The whole bombing installation thing? Purely a cover.

 Compel wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Instead, they were intent on targeting military installations only. And as the only surface scans they had were black market and out of date, hence the scanning scheme they came up with. The plan was never wholesale genocide.

The plan was pretty much always wholesale genocide (except for a very brief moment before someone talked to Georgieu), the only difference was, the only people who needed to know that were Starfleet Command, Sarek and Georgieu.

The whole bombing installation thing? Purely a cover.

But one that Burnham believed.

I think that 'I support surgical strikes but nukes are too much for me!' is not enough of a moral message to wrap the whole season around. Especially since Burnham found a way (however pat and unrealisitic) to resolve things without any fighting. Had the wrapped the the message around 'no one has to die today because of my clever cleverness' that would have been a lot more powerful for me and a very Star Trek type message.

Like I said, fumbled the landing, overall a good show but could have been better.

I got round to finishing the show. It had excellent special effects for TV and some strong stylistic designs. All the side characters got fleshed out and grew on me.

I really disliked Michael Burnham. When she isn't using logic to make terrible decisions she's moping because she is apparently suddenly sensing emotions. The actor did the best with what she was given but overall really fell flat. She did shine in the Surak flashback episode. Ditto for Clem Fandango. Worked what he was given which just wasn't a lot, and his whole character was just meh.

Sadly one speech at the end does not Star Trek make. And creating a war arc where people are pushed to their limits only works if we establish their baseline. Either they needed 3 or 4 episodes before the Battle of the Binary Stars to show us the fun dynamics of the Shenzhou before it's ripped away, or start at episode 3 in the show. Show us how her actions have created this dark and moody Starfleet, chuck in a few injuries or battered ships. Get the desperation going.

The 4 episodes in the middle about the mirror universe were fun. I wish they'd spent more time there.

The big Enterprise reveal at the end feels cheap and pointless. Whilst Star Trek shows have had crossovers it always weaved in a narrative. It never cold finished on a surprise, X from tge past is here.

I hope they're done with the Klingon Arc and just move on to something new.

Passable space drama with lasers but not compelling for me. I'm watching it as a fan of the Star Trek setting, but the show hasn't gripped me on its own merits.

See, I appreciated the ‘we are Starfleet’ speech at the end.

On one hand, it was a kind of ‘yes, we know this wasn’t necessarily what Trekkies were expecting’ thing. Part apology, part statement of intent. Definitely not intended as an ‘SO UP YOURS, NERDS. NEEEEEERRRRRRRRRDS’.

On the other? Well we’ve just seen Starfleet and the Federation face it’s first full on War. And it emerged with its moral compass battered, but importantly, largely unchanged. I found that tied into the Georgiou Mirror stuff quite nicely.

It worked for me, but I can see why not for others.

Also, lovely to see someone else stuck on calling him Clem Fandango.

For those wondering what that’s about? Spoilered, as it’s a wee bit sweary. Couldn’t find any without. You have been warned.

I'm not really a serious Star Trek fan. I've seen every episode, but evidently not as heavily into the lore as those who were burning this series at the stake when it came out. That put me off watching it, but now that its finish I gave it a whirl.

Well its much better than how they put it across (...though that's not unexpected). Overall I liked the acting and where it going. Saru began to grind me a bit with how he choose to go about things, as was did the Federation's tenets seem to go out the window for him and other characters (outside the influence of the Captain) a fair bit. However, I *much* prefer this portrayal of Star Trek.

What gets me in particular is how Trek fans have been asking for a series were the Federation's ways are tested, and lost - usually asking for a war story (where by the end the "lets all be friends" types win out). ...Isn't this it?

Meh, gimme more Jason Isaacs. ...Or just more grimness in this setting. Gene Roddenberry can turn in his grave for all I care about his intentions for the series ("no crewman can ever be in conflict with each other").



Oh, and I liked The Orville as well, just in case any Trek fans who disagree with my points want to point and go "this is the enemy" some more. Though yes, ideally with its second series they'll be a bit more focused with the humour instead of smattering it in with plots that wouldn't be out of place in a Star Trek episode - if a bit darker. ...Though I guess in retrospect, having watched that first, there's not enough exposed organs for The Orville to be as dark as Trek is now. And here's me thinking the new Star Trek would be a pile of toss after watching those horrible Abrams movies (Lens flares!!!).

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well we’ve just seen Starfleet and the Federation face it’s first full on War.

Point of information!

Canonically the Federation already fought a war against the Romulans!

However it was fought in deep space with the only communications over voice so they never learned what the Romulans look like.

[/Nerd]

PS Hey! Why didn't the Prime Directive apply to the Mirror Universe? Shouldn't they have just kept their heads down and tried to find a way home rather than depose the government and blow up the Cool Ship? I guess Lorca threw it out early and no one ever picked it up as a guiding light.

Prime Directive only applies to primative/pre-warp civilizations, doesn’t it?

There's also the Temporal Prime Directive (pretty much...just...just don't, yeah? And if you do, don't much anything up)

But I can't think of any mention of a Parallel Reality type Prime Directive? Doesn't mean there isn't one. And if there is, this is the first confirmed instance, pre-dating TOS' trip there?

AduroT wrote:Prime Directive only applies to primative/pre-warp civilizations, doesn’t it?

Oh yeah good point

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:There's also the Temporal Prime Directive (pretty much...just...just don't, yeah? And if you do, don't much anything up)

But I can't think of any mention of a Parallel Reality type Prime Directive? Doesn't mean there isn't one. And if there is, this is the first confirmed instance, pre-dating TOS' trip there?

Crew of the Defiant in ST Enterprise. Course they all died...

Only technically....at the time of Disco the Defiant hadn't actually gone back in time to the parallel

Shame no one the Discovery thought to warn the crew of the Defiant... I guess they were busy and stuff.

Ah. Now that would definitely be The Temporal Prime Directive - which Kirk and Spock were aware of.

It would also mean they couldn't have taken the actions they had, threatening their ret

Picked up Netflix and binge watched the series

Hugely impressed - love the show, the characters are well crafted, the plots interesting and coherent.

A most impressive first season.

And it had the glorious Mirror Universe.

(If the Klingons had been normal looking it would be near perfect, -they act like them, talk like them)

Overall I’ve enjoyed the series. Star Trek has always been of uneven quality and this show is better more often than not. The resolution to the war story doesn’t really make sense though. The Klingon lady should have at least had to blow up one continent or something to make her point. I don’t see any reason anyone would take her seriously about this bizarre doomsday weapon. Like can’t anyone just put some nukes in orbit and threaten the planet? Also it can’t take them that long to work up some kind of counter to it.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Overall I’ve enjoyed the series. Star Trek has always been of uneven quality and this show is better more often than not. The resolution to the war story doesn’t really make sense though. The Klingon lady should have at least had to blow up one continent or something to make her point. I don’t see any reason anyone would take her seriously about this bizarre doomsday weapon. Like can’t anyone just put some nukes in orbit and threaten the planet? Also it can’t take them that long to work up some kind of counter to it.

They can't attack from orbit due to the klingon fixed defences - its why the ship had to

I think the

Of course the war could always resume

I wonder how long it would take me to convince the UN that my TV remote is connected to a planet-killer bomb?

Think they'll make me King of Earth?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder how long it would take me to convince the UN that my TV remote is connected to a planet-killer bomb?

Think they'll make me King of Earth?

I’ll vouch for you.

Here's an interesting bit of news, the design of the NCC-1701 (no bloody A, B, C or D!) had to be altered for legal reasons.

Which again raises the question, why the FETH did you do another prequel!

https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discoverys-version-of-the-enterprise-had-to-1825276401?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Star Trek: Discovery's Version of the Enterprise Had to Be Modified for Legal Reasons

Julie Muncy
Yesterday 2:15pmFiled to: STAR TREK: DISCOVERY
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The Enterprise as it’s featured in Discovery
Image: CBS
The finale of Star Trek: Discovery gave us a short glimpse at the most legendary ship in the entire Starfleet: the Enterprise, ten years before the original Star Trek television show. Befitting the different visual style of Discovery, the ship looks a little different than we remembered, but that apparently wasn’t just for creative reasons.

(Trek Movie has a great comparison of the two designs.)

Taking to Facebook to discuss the release of a calendar featuring an early design of the Discovery version, show designer John Eaves explained a bit about the process.

“Back in April of 2017 the task of the Enterprise making an appearance came to be and work was to start right away,” Eaves explained (with some of the grammar modified for readability). “The task started with the guideline that the Enterprise for Discovery had to be 25% different, otherwise production would have most likely been able to use the original design from the 60's. But that couldn’t happen so we took Jefferies’ original concepts and with great care tried to be as faithful as possible. We had the advantage of a ten-year gap in Trek history to retro the ship a bit with elements that could be removed and replaced somewhere in the time frame of Discovery and the Original series.”

That guideline, apparently, came from legal, as Eaves went on to explain in a comment below the main post.

“After Enterprise, properties of Star Trek ownership changed hands and was divided,, so what was able to cross TV shows up to that point changed and a lot of the crossover was no longer allowed,” he said. “That is why when JJ [Abrams]’s movie came along everything had to be different. The alternate universe concept was what really made that movie happen in a way as to not cross the new boundaries and give Trek a new footing to continue.”

So that explains it. Creativity is shaped by constraints, after all. And I for one think the new old version of the Enterprise looks awfully sharp, all things considered.

 Mr Morden wrote:

(If the Klingons had been normal looking it would be near perfect, -they act like them, talk like them)

I got a some amount of amusement out of the fact that the character that looks the most like a Kilingon is the Kilingon 'disguised' as a human...

The klingons changed in each movie they were in, too.

There was outrage from "fans" when TMP made them into ridgeheads with British teeth.

Then again in ST3,5 & 6 and again in the kelvin 1&2 (they're in the deleted scenes for JJ's ST, under the helmets, they look much like they did in Into darkness. It's just that they didn't have all the prosthetics ready for filming for the first one.

The only thing constant about the way klingons look in star trek is how much they change in each iteration.

I think that honestly the reason Klingons DIDN'T look like that from the get go is because of budget. I also like that Romulans are mildly different looking than Vulcans now.

The Klingon redesign for TMP did make them a little more interesting. The Romulan eyebrow ridge addition never made a much sense, given that the fact that they were identical to Vulcan's was a big part of their original reveal.

Divergent evolution. How long had the Romulans and Vulcans been separate?

A few thousand years, IIRC.

Not enough for headlumps to form, unless there was some inbreeding.

Or genetic modification. It's a fairly established technology in the Trek universe.