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A few small pieces of terrain. He complains constantly if there is more than one item of LOS block, saying that he always has to put up with too much terrain at Uni. Once walked out of a GW apocalypse game because it had "too much terrain". Later played on the same table to his advantage, but claimed thatbthe wide killzones were unfair to him. Despite actually being beneficial.

The odd times I get a win on him, he sulks out. Last year, I used an Emperor's Champion to great effect. Dufe actually cried a little when the EC solo'd 4 terminators and 5 or so sternguard.

This Dave bloke sounds like a real character

You're not close friends with him, are you? I ask because if you aren't, best course of action is to ignore him - I doubt people on that steep a gradient of mind numbing are worth discussing tactics with, even if they speak about it politely. Somehow I don't think Mr Dave does.

At least you only practically play Kill Team Selym; I think he will find it hard to complain about half the things he does in that format

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:

You're not close friends with him, are you?

At least you only practically play Kill Team Selym; I think he will find it hard to complain about half the things he does in that format

G.A

I have known this person since I was five. He's a rather belligerent soul.

He also complains in Kill Team. Stuff like how its unfair that I found sonething that makes sternguard's special ammo not all that effective. Then moaning about how he shouldn't have to pay for it.

Always surprised when I bring some Ap3.

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

You're not close friends with him, are you?

At least you only practically play Kill Team Selym; I think he will find it hard to complain about half the things he does in that format

G.A

I have known this person since I was five. He's a rather belligerent soul.

He also complains in Kill Team. Stuff like how its unfair that I found sonething that makes sternguard's special ammo not all that effective. Then moaning about how he shouldn't have to pay for it.

Always surprised when I bring some Ap3.

You don't have a right to complain about Kill Team until you lose everything before you have a turn....

 Selym wrote:
A few small pieces of terrain. He complains constantly if there is more than one item of LOS block, saying that he always has to put up with too much terrain at Uni. Once walked out of a GW apocalypse game because it had "too much terrain". Later played on the same table to his advantage, but claimed thatbthe wide killzones were unfair to him. Despite actually being beneficial.

The odd times I get a win on him, he sulks out. Last year, I used an Emperor's Champion to great effect. Dufe actually cried a little when the EC solo'd 4 terminators and 5 or so sternguard.

Based on what you are saying, assuming that you are portraying the matter accurately, it sounds like Dave might actually be "that guy."

These behaviors are not indicative of someone who has legitimate complaints about things being OP or not OP and just wants a fun, fair fight. They are indicative of someone who wants to literally re-enact the Space Marines video game and consistently table opponents with no more than a single squad of tactical marines and a generic captain while taking minimal losses to his own forces.

That guy just sounds like a toxic opponent to play against.

He's good for a laugh, and used to be fine. In 5e... When I was a C:SM player...

Come to think of it. Maybe that's why he was fine with it.

Ugh.

 Selym wrote:
I have known this person since I was five. He's a rather belligerent soul.

He also complains in Kill Team. Stuff like how its unfair that I found sonething that makes sternguard's special ammo not all that effective. Then moaning about how he shouldn't have to pay for it.

Always surprised when I bring some Ap3.

So an age old "friend" and one who has ability to complain in a casual, low point format? Deary me how do you live

Has Mr Dave heard about Tactical Marines before? They're a lot like Sternguard, only they don't have to pay for special ammunition. I feel like he should get on that.

Now isn't that queer - I've brought an army well known for having 3+ armour saves across the board, and my friend has brought along some AP3 weapons? Are you blind man?!

In all seriousness, I think this guy may be wholly "on the spectrum" shall we say.

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

Does the real name start with S by any chance? This sounds more and more and more like someone I know.

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

Does the real name start with S by any chance? This sounds more and more and more like someone I know.

You have lost me. I'm in Hertfordshire. Dave's Uni is Hull.

Got a similar tale?

 Selym wrote:
I have attempted to make Dave see reason, but any arguent I've tried has largely been discounted by him. Essentially, if it can reliably kill space marines it's op, but if it's in C:SM it's fine.
Unless it's CSM or IG, then it's OP by default.

Send him to me. I will feast on his despair with my Tau and get a game out of it. Friendship is not needed.

 Selym wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

Does the real name start with S by any chance? This sounds more and more and more like someone I know.

You have lost me. I'm in Hertfordshire. Dave's Uni is Hull.

Got a similar tale?

Not really unless you count his master plan of having his Harlequins hang around the board edge to "ambush" the enemy. Boy that was a fun 'team' game

. Three paints but not great on detail sounds like the TFG at my store. As does a unique view of what is and isn't strong. Add in an incredibly bad sense of his own skill and they'd be the same person.

 Gamgee wrote:

Send him to me. I will feast on his despair with my Tau and get a game out of it. Friendship is not needed.

I demand a trial by Vassal!

What I want to know is how Mr Dave gets on with the other members of your community, Selym; does he get many games in with others, Kill Team or bigger?

Has Dave ever played anything other than codex Space Marines?

Has he ever said anything even vaguely complimentary about any faction other than Space Marines?

 Jewelfox wrote:
Has Dave ever played anything other than codex Space Marines?

Has he ever said anything even vaguely complimentary about any faction other than Space Marines?

Yeah, he supports the idea that IK can dance around like ballerinas, as noted in their firt codex. Apart from that, any time I try to talk about some fun aspect of another army (especially xenos), he always spends ages arguing that Space Marines are somehow just better, and that they are much cooler.

Had a weird conversation yesterday, where I was talking about the Officio Assassinorum, and we drew comparisons between them and the heroes/assassins/killlteams of other factions, and Dave was all for supporting the likes of a Vindicare. Seemed to be one of the few non Space Marine things he likes (probably due to the genetic, technological and psychological modifications), but when I suggested using one on the TT he had what I can only describe as a massive [female dog]-fit about how it's so ridiculously unfair to use one. Immediately discounting arguments like "Two lascannon hits will kill it on average" with statements like "but that takes up an entire predator tank". Seemingly incapable of understanding that one turn of a 140-point unit's time is easily worth removing a 150 point model.

T.T

Also, refuses to play other armies, on the grounds that he shouldn't have to pay for another codex. And then moans about how Ultramarines never get anything special or unique.

 Selym wrote:

I crunch'd numbers, and I am going to do an experiment.

I wrote this:
[spoiler]
0.9166 to hit

Shield Breaker: 0.5 to wound
Turbo-Penetrator: 0.5 to wound
Hellfire: 0.8333 to wound

Vs 3+, 4++:

Shield Breaker: 1 to injure
Turbo-Penetrator: 0.5 to injure, 0.66 to inflict 2+ wounds
Hellfire: 0.5 to injure

Overall against 3+, 4++ target:

Shield Breaker has a 0.4583 chance to inflict 1 wound.
Turbo-Penetrator has a 0.2292 chance to injure; 0.0756 chance to inflict 3 wounds.
Hellfre has a 0.3819 chance to inflict 1 wound.

If thats honestly the chances of doing three wounds to T4 with 4+ invuln, my vindicare kills other vindicares way too often first turn. Everyone always tells me to fire shieldbreaker when I say im targeting their assassin and 9/10 I one shot him first turn.

But yeah, the assassins are really not thatOP at all. Especially the vindicare, he struggles to make his points back most games with a combo of people picking wrong targets and putting too much faith in him. Eversor will normally recoup by charging a squad of marines, callidus really messes with people's deployment plans and culexus is a good all rounder imo.

He seems to complain about the minor things that are designed to try balance out armies because he doesn't want a fair fight when playing as marines. Sounds like he is a very much much Movie Marine mindset in that they are the end all to all the enemies of mankind and can never be killed.

A real figure, this fella of yours. I bet he says 'back in 5e, when this and that didn't exist, I was the king!'

We have one guy that complains a lot about other armies - but he plays DE, so he's allowed to. Also, his complaints are funny and, most of the time, spot on.

When our SM player complains about something, on the other hand... we give him the sideways look of 'Really?'.

 Vector Strike wrote:
A real figure, this fella of yours. I bet he says 'back in 5e, when this and that didn't exist, I was the king!'

Not quite, but he's still complaining about how 4E got changed by 5E...

Sometimes people just need to quit things they complain about too often. I feel like Mr Dave would be much happier and nicer if he stopped playing 40k. At the very least it'd be beneficial for your gaming group.

Speaking of which, I'd be interested to hear how he interacts with other players at your LGS, if you have any stories to share; I could do with a good Sunday read that doesn't involve giggling at Daily Mail headlines.

G.A

My gaming group consists of him and myself.

The others either moved too far away, or got kicked out for being an even worse tfg than Dave.

Oh my, it's worse than I thought - I only had one buddy to play games with for a long time, and it was very frustrating, but for different reasons; we preferred to play with painted armies, so we spent little time actually gaming, and when we did we were both rusty with the game itself.

I'm sure you have probably tried to find a good LGS, but I think Dave's influence will be diluted the moment you get more mates to join your group who haven't been kicked out prior, since he won't be the centre of your attention anymore. He may even be convinced by other people to play with a different head on his shoulders if everyone gets annoyed enough about him.

I've met plenty of stubborn people like Dave at my old clubs, and have even experienced worse with cheaters and rich, arrogant . It didn't help that many of them weren't even teens then. God I pray that I never have to play a TT game with a kid ever again - I think playing at my old LGS actually gave me my paedophobia

But point being that Dave is unlikely to change his ways. You said that you've been trying since 2007; I wouldn't have bothered for even a month of my time with someone like that, especially if they were the only person who I could play the game with. However, if you could find more people to join your group, it could help out, even if it only offers an alternative to playing with Dave.

 Selym wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

Does the real name start with S by any chance? This sounds more and more and more like someone I know.

You have lost me. I'm in Hertfordshire. Dave's Uni is Hull.

Got a similar tale?

Dave... um ... I'm at Hull Uni too.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 Selym wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

At least he has to be a good painter? Right? Right?

He's fully painted in at least 3 colours. Not so great on the details though.

Does the real name start with S by any chance? This sounds more and more and more like someone I know.

You have lost me. I'm in Hertfordshire. Dave's Uni is Hull.

Got a similar tale?

Dave... um ... I'm at Hull Uni too.

Know any Ultramarine players who just won't stop moaning?

That 'boy' needs to grow the hell up.

Sounds like the kind of person who wants to play 2 player video games, but doesn't want the other player to have a controller, and who wants to win without trying against people who don't have a chance. In other words, the illusion of 2-player play.

My solution? Walk away. Guy's not worth your time.

Deadnight wrote:

Sounds like the kind of person who wants to play 2 player video games, but doesn't want the other player to have a controller, and who wants to win without trying against people who don't have a chance. In other words, the illusion of 2-player play.

Last time I played a 2 player game with him we played a 1v1 deathmatch in CoD. Kept calling assault rifles OP because I was silly good at getting quick shots to the head from half the map away. Threw the game after I got a 5 killstreak.

Can't actually say I do - I've seen Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Grey Knights. Haven't seen Ultramarines.

Are the UM painted like UM?

The PERFECT time to use the Picard Facepalm Meme!

I bet he is gonna say that SoB are Stupidly OP!

 Wolfblade wrote:
Are the UM painted like UM?

Yes. Uses white instead of gold because he thinks he's the 1st company.

 Selym wrote:
Yes. Uses white instead of gold because he thinks he's the 1st company.

Of course he does But hey, they're painted in 3 colours!