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 Galef wrote:

So maybe that is it for me. If I don't vote, my preferred candidate will win, If I do vote, Trump might win.

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You'd be giving us someone to blame, and that's all we're looking for at this point.

Take one for the team!

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:


Clinton directed her maid to print out classified materials
jfc...

Gee, a Clinton bashing story in a rag owned by Rupert Murdoch, and written by the same guy who wrote "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives have Penetrated Washington".

You genuinely deserve that clueless nob Gary Johnson as your candidate.

So... you're saying that Clinton and her staff didn't direct her maid to print out her emails (classified)?

So you don't believe the FBI?
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_OctWeb/247/DOC_0C05793141/C05793141.pdf
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_OctWeb/247/DOC_0C05793141/C05793141.pdf

If that doesn't prove intent that she broke federal laws... nothing will.

Hey... at least when she's President, her practice of handling this gak would be under the aegis of the President at the Whitehouse... so, it'd be more secured.

I may be misunderstanding, but I thought they had to prove inhtent to harm the US?

Also, do we even know who Marina is?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I may be misunderstanding, but I thought they had to prove inhtent to harm the US?

That's what James Comey argued on his July announcement.

However, the law doesn't state that:
793(f) of the Espionage Act

"Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed...and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

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 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Also, do we even know who Marina is?

Marina Santos... the "maid"?

Regardless, she had to have access to the SCIF at Clinton's residence.

Hard to believe that a maid would have top secret clearance.

How fast do you think the feds can grant her TS access?

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I may be misunderstanding, but I thought they had to prove inhtent to harm the US?

That's what James Comey argued on his July announcement.

However, the law doesn't state that:
793(f) of the Espionage Act

"Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed...and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

So what you are saying is that someone saying "I'm getting x to print some talking points for you." is gross negligence? Because that doesn't seem right.
And it looks like it's someone else doing the ordering anyway, so even if it was prosecute-able, she wouldn't be the one doing anything wrong.

So, America, now it's time to make the West great again !
You have a great responsability, you may be the candle that brightens the world !
For Trump and the West !

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I may be misunderstanding, but I thought they had to prove inhtent to harm the US?

That's what James Comey argued on his July announcement.

However, the law doesn't state that:
793(f) of the Espionage Act

"Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed...and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

So what you are saying is that someone saying "I'm getting x to print some talking points for you." is gross negligence? Because that doesn't seem right.
And it looks like it's someone else doing the ordering anyway, so even if it was prosecute-able, she wouldn't be the one doing anything wrong.

In those two specific emails, and if nothing else was found... it'd be Monica Hanley and Marina Santos that would get in trouble.

You simple "don't" print out classified information outside of the proper procedures (and it stays in SCIF locations).

If Hillary was handed those papers (in direct violations of the law), she has a LEGAL obligation to report it and take measures to secure everything.

But, hey... apparently Hillary's convenience is paramount.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

Gee, a Clinton bashing story in a rag owned by Rupert Murdoch, and written by the same guy who wrote "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives have Penetrated Washington".

I...I have that DVD...

 godardc wrote:
So, America, now it's time to make the West great again !
You have a great responsability, you may be the candle that brightens the world !
For Trump and the West !

This isn't Lord of the Rings.

(But Trump would make a terrible Aragorn. His hands aren't big enough to hold Anduril.)

 godardc wrote:
So, America, now it's time to make the West great again !
You have a great responsability, you may be the candle that brightens the world !
For Trump and the West !

Not yet. Tomorrow!

i early voted, though. You're welcome!

 godardc wrote:
So, America, now it's time to make the West great again !
You have a great responsability, you may be the candle that brightens the world !
For Trump and the West !

Sorry buddy... Trump will not win.

Best hope is for the GOP to win the Senate (coin flip).

Eh, even if they lose the Senate they still have the house. The only difference is that we'll actually get that SCOTUS seat filled. Plus, they nominated Trump, they deserve to lose it. It might make them tone down,the dogwhistles and rabid partisanship. It would be nice to have two parties that would work together for the good of the country, and not a bunch of petulant children throwing fits because it hasn't all gone their way.

 whembly wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:


Clinton directed her maid to print out classified materials
jfc...

Gee, a Clinton bashing story in a rag owned by Rupert Murdoch, and written by the same guy who wrote "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives have Penetrated Washington".

You genuinely deserve that clueless nob Gary Johnson as your candidate.

So... you're saying that Clinton and her staff didn't direct her maid to print out her emails (classified)?

So you don't believe the FBI?
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_OctWeb/247/DOC_0C05793141/C05793141.pdf
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_OctWeb/247/DOC_0C05793141/C05793141.pdf

If that doesn't prove intent that she broke federal laws... nothing will.

Hey... at least when she's President, her practice of handling this gak would be under the aegis of the President at the Whitehouse... so, it'd be more secured.

I've already made it quite clear where I stand on this email nonsense. This horse continues to get deader by the minute and the only doggies that seem to still be attempting to gnaw on it are Murdoch and his ilk, and those with no skin in the game who just like to throw stones. After reviewing the recently discovered cache of emails, the FBI just reiterated their standing by of their original findings, so keep on beating this equine cadaver as I'm sure it gets more relevant with time.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Eh, even if they lose the Senate they still have the house. The only difference is that we'll actually get that SCOTUS seat filled. Plus, they nominated Trump, they deserve to lose it. It might make them tone down,the dogwhistles and rabid partisanship. It would be nice to have two parties that would work together for the good of the country, and not a bunch of petulant children throwing fits because it hasn't all gone their way.

Ha, that's a load of horse gak. The GOP has already made it abundantly clear that they'll do everything they can to keep the government from working as long as Clinton is president.

What this should do is motivate Clinton, Sanders, and the rest of the Democratic Party to make sure Democratic voters turn out for the 2018 midterms. Trump's arrival on the scene this year should help as a motivator.

 BigWaaagh wrote:
My "ideal" outcome:

POTUS - Clinton
Senate - Democratic
House - GOP

I would like the same, but there are certain key figures in the House I would like gone, but, more importantly, i want the GOP's control of the House to be very slim. Reason being that they need a fire lit under their asses to start doing their jobs again. Make it clear they've got one more chance to be a useful, functional part of governing this country. The Republican party does still have a lot to offer, but only if they reject the destructively extreme elements of their party.

 whembly wrote:

Sorry buddy... Trump will not win.

I certainly hope not.

Pence scares me more than Trump.


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 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
My "ideal" outcome:

POTUS - Clinton
Senate - Democratic
House - GOP

I would like the same, but there are certain key figures in the House I would like gone, but, more importantly, i want the GOP's control of the House to be very slim. Reason being that they need a fire lit under their asses to start doing their jobs again. Make it clear they've got one more chance to be a useful, functional part of governing this country. The Republican party does still have a lot to offer, but only if they reject the destructively extreme elements of their party.

Term limits for house an senate
they should also be forced to use the same healthcare systems we do.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
My "ideal" outcome:

POTUS - Clinton
Senate - Democratic
House - GOP

I would like the same, but there are certain key figures in the House I would like gone, but, more importantly, i want the GOP's control of the House to be very slim. Reason being that they need a fire lit under their asses to start doing their jobs again. Make it clear they've got one more chance to be a useful, functional part of governing this country. The Republican party does still have a lot to offer, but only if they reject the destructively extreme elements of their party.

I have an immense amount of faith in the ability of Clinton and Ryan to work together. Clinton, for reasons I just mentioned a page ago and Ryan because he saw the bullgak that Boehner had to endure at the hands of the Tea Party insurgents. He's going to want to neuter them and the best way to do that is pass some legislation in compromise with the Dems that impacts the economy, i.e. corporate tax reform that helps repatriate the T$2.5 being held overseas by US Corporations. That will get this economy jump started because it will immediately go to work and really spur jobs growth. As the saying goes, "It's the economy stupid."...it always has been.

Americans on both sides of the aisle are pissed and more than anything want our government to work, regardless of politics. Remember, approval ratings dropped to historical lows when government locked up and partisanship was at it's highest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vash108 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Sorry buddy... Trump will not win.

I certainly hope not.

Pence scares me more than Trump.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
My "ideal" outcome:

POTUS - Clinton
Senate - Democratic
House - GOP

I would like the same, but there are certain key figures in the House I would like gone, but, more importantly, i want the GOP's control of the House to be very slim. Reason being that they need a fire lit under their asses to start doing their jobs again. Make it clear they've got one more chance to be a useful, functional part of governing this country. The Republican party does still have a lot to offer, but only if they reject the destructively extreme elements of their party.

Term limits for house an senate
they should also be forced to use the same healthcare systems we do.

Term limits, eh, I'm mixed on this one. But they shouldn't get a dime from taxpayers to pay for their healthcare. They get blue chip coverage for free and that is just fething criminal. How can someone show the empathy necessary with regards to access to health care when they're so out of touch and insulated? It can't be done.

 Breotan wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
A day and a half and counting. The question is, will this election be called early in the evening or will the results be unknown until a week later as recounts are done?

I'll answer the question with a question.

What specific reasons do you have for thinking that the election aftermath will be any less of a clusterfeth than the race has been to this point? Especially given Trump challenging the legitimacy of the election before the results are even known? If Trump wins, Clinton is more likely to stand down, but she'll still probably challenge something.

Unfortunately, I think our long, national reality show nightmare will keep airing new episodes after November 8.

Challenges only happen when automatic recounts are involved. If things get too close to call in a State, expect recounts and court challenges to happen. Should the margin be wide enough then the State will be declared without issue. As long as we don't wind up with a situation like Florida in 2000 then any shouting match between Clinton and Trump will be irrelevant.

What I'm wondering is, will there be enough States with significant absentee voting to postpone the results and keep the rest of us waiting and stressed out for longer than is really necessary? There were three or four last time, if I recall correctly.

Well, you're talking about technical points, I'm talking about drama finding a way. And it'll be fanned and fed by the media, who would LOVE to keep this stuff rolling well after November 8.

A peaceful, quiet aftermath simply makes no sense based on what we've seen to this point from both sides.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Eh, even if they lose the Senate they still have the house. The only difference is that we'll actually get that SCOTUS seat filled. Plus, they nominated Trump, they deserve to lose it. It might make them tone down,the dogwhistles and rabid partisanship. It would be nice to have two parties that would work together for the good of the country, and not a bunch of petulant children throwing fits because it hasn't all gone their way.

In a strange kind of way I think the best result might be for Trump to win, because the ensuing 4 year dumpster fire of gak starting with a stock market meltdown on Nov 9th might convince even the most die hard GOP extremists that things have gone too far.

However my gut feeling now is that Clinton will edge it or do better.

Clinton will crush Trump mostly in New England and the West Coast and a few Northern Midwest states. Trump will fail to flip Nevada, Florida, PA, or New Hampshire.

However, Trump will win most of the middle of the Country. North Carolina and Georgia will stay Red.

On election night, once they call the results for PA and New Hampshire if Clinton wins you can go to bed knowing she is the next president.

 Easy E wrote:
Clinton will crush Trump mostly in New England and the West Coast and a few Northern Midwest states. Trump will fail to flip Nevada, Florida, PA, or New Hampshire.

However, Trump will win most of the middle of the Country. North Carolina and Georgia will stay Red.

On election night, once they call the results for PA and New Hampshire if Clinton wins you can go to bed knowing she is the next president.

eh... I still say FL/OH are the important early indicators.

If Clinton wins one of those, it's over... Clinton would've won by then.

 Easy E wrote:
Clinton will crush Trump mostly in New England and the West Coast and a few Northern Midwest states. Trump will fail to flip Nevada, Florida, PA, or New Hampshire.

However, Trump will win most of the middle of the Country. North Carolina and Georgia will stay Red.

On election night, once they call the results for PA and New Hampshire if Clinton wins you can go to bed knowing she is the next president.

GA is looking a little more purple than usual

Shocking news as Trump makes up more rubbish about Obama

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKBN12Z2MU

Yeah, if Trump loses Florida, it's over. He needs those EC votes desperately.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Shocking news as Trump makes up more rubbish about Obama

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKBN12Z2MU

yep
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-obama-cerebral-palsy_us_581ffb8de4b0aac62485438c

Trump lies about President Obama's public video recorded speech at a rally.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKBN12Z2MU

Glenn Beck calls Trump dangerously unhinged.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/glenn-beck-tries-out-decency

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ipsos-polls-commentary-idUSKBN12Y22O?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=morefromreuters

Interesting article about polling and swings in polling data.

He's escaping his handlers again...anybody still on the fence or discouraged to vote, think r-e-a-l-l-y hard about a potential leader that demonizes wholesale groups by religion, ethnicity, etc. the way this feth of a human being does. Look at just about any diabolical and murderous dictator in history and that is a very common theme to their story. Create a false boogeyman for everyone to point their vitriol and blame at for their "problems" and horrible things then ensue. This is not rhetoric, it's happening right now so get off your asses, vote and make sure this "thing" posing as a GOP POTUS candidate never gets in the White House.

http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/07/terror-threat-us-is-there-any-truth-to-donald-trumps-rhetoric/21600575/

 BigWaaagh wrote:
He's escaping his handlers again...anybody still on the fence or discouraged to vote, think r-e-a-l-l-y hard about a potential leader that demonizes wholesale groups by religion, ethnicity, etc. the way this feth of a human being does. Look at just about any diabolical and murderous dictator in history and that is a very common theme to their story. Create a false boogeyman for everyone to point their vitriol and blame at for their "problems" and horrible things then ensue. This is not rhetoric, it's happening right now so get off your asses, vote and make sure this "thing" posing as a GOP POTUS candidate never gets in the White House.

http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/07/terror-threat-us-is-there-any-truth-to-donald-trumps-rhetoric/21600575/

But... but... Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil! Ya know... because if given the option to have $100 taken out of your wallet or $50 taken out of your wallet, the best choice is to say 'I don't care, both are bad, someone else decide for me!'

 kronk wrote:

 godardc wrote:
So, America, now it's time to make the West great again !
You have a great responsability, you may be the candle that brightens the world !
For Trump and the West !

Not yet. Tomorrow!

i early voted, though. You're welcome!

I voted by mail. Wanna see my button?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
But... but... Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil! Ya know... because if given the option to have $100 taken out of your wallet or $50 taken out of your wallet, the best choice is to say 'I don't care, both are bad, someone else decide for me!'

So you are saying that if I don't want Trump to be POTUS, I HAVE TO vote Clinton. How about I choose the option to not let ANY money get taken out of my wallet?
You could say that I am voting, but not for either, so what does it matter. Can I just write in Obama for another term? Didn't think so

In the past I have not voted because I was so "out of the loop" that I didn't even know an election was coming until a few days after it was over. But now the stakes seem so damn high.
If Trump becomes Potus, then the American people will have failed, and I'll be among them.
I would have voted Clinton in the past, but mainly because I've always considered myself liberal. Talking to some of my more politically savvy friends and they inform me that I am more of an idealistic socialist. I want to see things the way they "should" be and am confused by how things actually "are".

Anyway it doesn't matter now, since I have yet to register to vote nor get time off tomorrow to vote.

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