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Yeah that's true. Probably best not to spread the word of a known rapist either.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy. If anything it will increase the proportion who retaliate to their perceived persecution.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:15:01
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
So, wanting secure, sovereign borders, and taking measures to prevent anymore Orlandos and San Bernidinos is "preaching hate"?
Sorry, amigo. The world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Fundamentalist Islam is going full tilt, European nations are having internal issues due to an immigration crisis, and Mexico is in the middle of a drug war that's been slowly spilling over the border. People understand that, and Trump played that to win. Whether or not the status quo will change remains to be seen. I have my doubts anything will, but I could be wrong.
In the middle of? Mexico has been having a drug war since the 70's, it's always been leaking into the US, mainly San Antonio. European nations are having internal issues because disenfranchised Muslims are joining with groups like ISIS because they feel a sense of belonging, especially in a post-9/11 world. Is Islam really a hateful religion, or are we reaching a boiling point where people are trying to adjust and coexist in multi-cultural nations and clashing is occurring?
I really hope Trump "makes America great again", but the man's a flat out racist. Saying anything otherwise is asinine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy. If anything it will increase the proportion who retaliate to their perceived persecution.
Or several straight, white, Christian shooters? Nah, it's easier to scapegoat and police an entire minority than face bigger issues like mental stability and why people feel the need to resort to violence.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:17:41
Milo Yiannopoulos visits the abandoned mainstream media buffets and steals cake and ice cream from Fox News.
Milo's monologue at 1:55.
Milo: "America this should tell you something. What it tells you is that these people don't really want to tell you whats happening. Once the narrative falls apart, once the narrative self destructs-"
Milo's companion: -"they abandon ship!"
Milo: "-under the reality of a Trump victory, they just leave! They just leave. So whatever they tell you tomorrow, however they explain this victory, whatever they tell you lead to this victory, they have no clue. They don't know. And this is why. They're not here."
Milo's companion: "They're gone, they've left. This is the titanic."
Milo: "They're not here."
Is this true? The mainstream media just upped and left? They went home? I find that pretty remarkable...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:18:34
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy.
To play satan for a moment: what if the answer to "why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen" is 'Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Western, secular values'?
In other words, what if the fundamentalist Imams are right and you really do have to choose between being a good, tolerant American and submission to the will of Allah?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in a position to make such a judgement. But I also understand that my own religion is at odds with many things in the Western world (owing to the West's Christian foundations). I must come to terms with this (or move, to be fair) through mechanisms in my faith that may (or may not) be applicable to Islamic doctrines.
On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Co'tor Shas wrote: So she won tge popular but lost the EC? It's crazy that this has happened twice in the last two decades. You'd almost think that it's ans outated system thwt no longer works...
Yodhrin wrote: ....even the people who voted for Trump as a last futile "from hell's heart, I stab at thee"..
I think that's a good description of many Trump voters from Ahab
Just as an outsider watching my Facebook, I see a bunch of Trump voters but not any Trump "supporters". I think the latter is a rare group, but the former being quite common.
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy. If anything it will increase the proportion who retaliate to their perceived persecution.
Or several straight, white, Christian shooters? Nah, it's easier to scapegoat and police an entire minority than face bigger issues like mental stability and why people feel the need to resort to violence.
Are they White and Christian, then you can't call them terrorists or a group of gun toting militia taking over a federal building with weapons, why they are just good ol boys having fun. /s
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy.
Farook was radicalized by Malik, a Pakistani-born Sunni Muslim with radical leanings, who traveled to Saudi Arabia several times prior to the incident.
And Mateen was linked to foreign fundamentalists, and had been under FBI investigation back in 2013 and 2014 for jihadist ties.
The immigration system, in general, needs an overhaul. And yes, vetting people from regions subject to insurgent and terrorist activities is warranted, and isn't "scapegoating" as you put it. I agree that we need to take measures to root out and prevent radicalization within the United States, since that genie is already out of the bottle. But I would prefer that they are vetted beforehand, so that the decent folks who want to come here for a better life won't have their lives trampled upon. Unfortunately, as events since 2001 have shown, we are past that point. We need to take measures now, before something happens that will REALLY curtail liberties here at home down the road. The price of peace and liberty is eternal vigilance, not whistling in the graveyard after dar.
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy.
To play satan for a moment: what if the answer to "why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen" is 'Islam is fundamentally incompatible with Western, secular values'?
In other words, what if the fundamentalist Imams are right and you really do have to choose between being a good, tolerant American and submission to the will of Allah?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in a position to make such a judgement. But I also understand that my own religion is at odds with many things in the Western world (owing to the West's Christian foundations). I must come to terms with this (or move, to be fair) through mechanisms in my faith that may (or may not) be applicable to Islamic doctrines.
Or what if it's 'sometimes people aren't all there or need someone to blame for their problems, turn to violence, and justify it through religion"?
Frazzled wrote: On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
Yes, it voted to secure its borders based on a vague promise of some sort of undefined physical barrier (which have been shown to be extremely expensive, easily defeatable by elements that wish to do so, and extremely controversial in the long run, in multiple real world instances) with zero details on how it will be built and maintained, and the promise this will all be done on the dime of a foreign government.
In other words, they voted for something that sounded like what they wanted, but is far more fairy tale and pixie dust than reality. We have zero real details on what any sorts of actual measures will be taken, how they will be implemented, and where the resources will come from.
We'll see if anything actually happens. I expect we'll see some budget shuffling and maybe a nice bump to the border patrol, but probably no fortress america wall any time soon.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
File this under "not all republicans are racists, but many racists voted Trump".
And the Democrats picked the one candidate who could lose to him.
Trump had less votes then McCain but still lost.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: Won't Republican Senators and Congress people have to go along with Trump?
What with the whole "if we don't, we look like traitors to the base who just voted him in?"
No... this isn't like your westminster style government.
Every poltiical critter can vote anyway they want. The worst to happen to US congress critters who bucks the party is that they may not get the cushy committee jobs or Party infrastructure/money during their re-elections.
I know America might be in trouble here, and I hate to sound selfish, but what about me?
A lot of politicians and people in Scotland annoyed Trump over his new gold course.
Is Scotland at risk of being invaded? Do I need to start constructing a fall out shelter in my back garden?
Will the 101st Airborne be attacking, because I warn you, I've got a German infantry company from the FOW Arnhem lists that will be more than happy to have a re-match against the 101st!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy.
Farook was radicalized by Malik, a Pakistani-born Sunni Muslim with radical leanings, who traveled to Saudi Arabia several times prior to the incident.
And Mateen was linked to foreign fundamentalists, and had been under FBI investigation back in 2013 and 2014 for jihadist ties.
The immigration system, in general, needs an overhaul. And yes, vetting people from regions subject to insurgent and terrorist activities is warranted, and isn't "scapegoating" as you put it. I agree that we need to take measures to root out and prevent radicalization within the United States, since that genie is already out of the bottle. But I would prefer that they are vetted beforehand, so that the decent folks who want to come here for a better life won't have their lives trampled upon. Unfortunately, as events since 2001 have shown, we are past that point. We need to take measures now, before something happens that will REALLY curtail liberties here at home down the road. The price of peace and liberty is eternal vigilance, not whistling in the graveyard after dar.
I'm all for reforming an immigration system that has been in dire need of an overhaul for way too long but I'm also entirely fed up with the calls for some kind of domestic police state and unconstitutional infringement on civil liberties under the guise of protecting us from a handful of religious fanatics who may be out there somewhere and whose attacks don't pose any existential threat to our country except for the deplorable fact that our politicians use them as an excuse to strip away our liberties, that's just a bunch of authoritarian bullgak. There are limits as to what the federal govt can do to prevent attacks, terrorist or otherwise, and that's a good thing that we don't need to and shouldn't change. Freedom is far more valuable to society than a false sense of security.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I know America might be in trouble here, and I hate to sound selfish, but what about me?
A lot of politicians and people in Scotland annoyed Trump over his new gold course.
Is Scotland at risk of being invaded? Do I need to start constructing a fall out shelter in my back garden?
Will the 101st Airborne be attacking, because I warn you, I've got a German infantry company from the FOW Arnhem lists that will be more than happy to have a re-match against the 101st!
No true Scotsman would fear an invasion over a golf course.
Frazzled wrote: On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
I had this conversation with you 1-2 years back, and although I think the wall is a batgak crazy idea, more steps should be taken to secure the border against drugs cartels and people smugglers.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
As a Democrat in California, last night was horrifying.
But this morning? Right now I feel like this is kind of refreshing. There's something really profound about seeing so many predictive statistics be so wrong about something.
I didn't take Trump seriously, and thought him a buffoon. As obviously did so many others.
But regardless of being a buffoon or not, the thing that also seems clear is that he just doesn't give a **** about the current establishment of either party. He's obviously not one to cave to the agendas of others. In and of itself, that's kinda great.
Frazzled wrote: On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
Yes, it voted to secure its borders based on a vague promise of some sort of undefined physical barrier (which have been shown to be extremely expensive, easily defeatable by elements that wish to do so, and extremely controversial in the long run, in multiple real world instances) with zero details on how it will be built and maintained, and the promise this will all be done on the dime of a foreign government.
In other words, they voted for something that sounded like what they wanted, but is far more fairy tale and pixie dust than reality. We have zero real details on what any sorts of actual measures will be taken, how they will be implemented, and where the resources will come from.
We'll see if anything actually happens. I expect we'll see some budget shuffling and maybe a nice bump to the border patrol, but probably no fortress america wall any time soon.
But how many people do you reckon voted for Trump based on the idea of a physical wall between them and Mexico and will be disappointed if one doesn't materialise?
I can't imagine it was actually that many. Of the people who voted for immigration based reasons (of which I'm sure there was a lot) I think they'd be more interested in changes to immigration policies and policing illegal immigration more so than a physical wall to Mexico. But then who knows, maybe lots of people are really hoping for a wall that can be seen from space.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I know America might be in trouble here, and I hate to sound selfish, but what about me?
A lot of politicians and people in Scotland annoyed Trump over his new gold course.
Is Scotland at risk of being invaded? Do I need to start constructing a fall out shelter in my back garden?
Will the 101st Airborne be attacking, because I warn you, I've got a German infantry company from the FOW Arnhem lists that will be more than happy to have a re-match against the 101st!
No true Scotsman would fear an invasion over a golf course.
I feel sorry for our politicians who insulted Trump, because now they have to pretend to like him...
Awkward
At least our Prime Minister was wise enough to sit on the fence.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Co'tor Shas wrote: So she won tge popular but lost the EC? It's crazy that this has happened twice in the last two decades. You'd almost think that it's ans outated system thwt no longer works...
That's how federalism works.
You could mitigate the chance of it happening by introducing some Leveling seats a.k.a Adjustment seats. A group of electors distributed with the whole nation counting as one district, allocated in order for the composition of electors to match the popular vote. Such systems exist in Scandinavia (and I believe in Germany, which is very much a federal state) in order to retain local representation, but still having the overall result conform with the overall popular votes. In Norway recently though, despite the Adjustment seats, the winning coalition got more seats with slightly less votes.
Good luck on making any changes to the American voting system though. As I understand, there's a metric f-ton of red tape and qualified majorities (unanimous decision by all states even?) needed.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:43:38
Frazzled wrote: On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
Yes, it voted to secure its borders based on a vague promise of some sort of undefined physical barrier (which have been shown to be extremely expensive, easily defeatable by elements that wish to do so, and extremely controversial in the long run, in multiple real world instances) with zero details on how it will be built and maintained, and the promise this will all be done on the dime of a foreign government.
In other words, they voted for something that sounded like what they wanted, but is far more fairy tale and pixie dust than reality. We have zero real details on what any sorts of actual measures will be taken, how they will be implemented, and where the resources will come from.
We'll see if anything actually happens. I expect we'll see some budget shuffling and maybe a nice bump to the border patrol, but probably no fortress america wall any time soon.
I'd be happy with the federal govt treating secure borders as a serious legitimate concern and creating a metaphysical version of the wall by putting knowledgeable and capable people in charge of border security and equipping them with the resources needed to enact practical solutions. There's a lot of other policies such as labor laws, drug laws and immigration laws that factor into illegal immigration that goes beyond just needing more effective and comprehensive border security. I'd really like to see an intelligent holistic approach that goes beyond catchy bumper sticker slogans.
In other words, they voted for something that sounded like what they wanted, but is far more fairy tale and pixie dust than reality.
One of the issues in today's discourse is that it's becoming devoid of nuance.
Trump literally said he'd build a wall and Mexico would pay for it. No doubt there's some percentage of the electorate that is taking that literally, but the majority of folks that view this as a significant swing point are probably looking at the difference between somebody who will take a much tougher stance than the open, unenforced border we currently have, as compared to someone who assuredly will not.
In talking with 'normal people' for the past year, I've personally been surprised by the amount of 1st and 2nd generation Hispanic support for Trump and a stronger border. Basic reasoning is 'I came here because I wanted to get away from all that stuff (generally drugs, hopeless economic conditions, and corruption), shut it down'. The belief that a stronger border is somehow racist or anti-immigrant has been more closely held by 2nd and 3rd generation natives that believe Trump will try to deport their parents/grandparents.
Prestor Jon wrote: I'm all for reforming an immigration system that has been in dire need of an overhaul for way too long but I'm also entirely fed up with the calls for some kind of domestic police state and unconstitutional infringement on civil liberties under the guise of protecting us from a handful of religious fanatics who may be out there somewhere and whose attacks don't pose any existential threat to our country except for the deplorable fact that our politicians use them as an excuse to strip away our liberties, that's just a bunch of authoritarian bullgak. There are limits as to what the federal govt can do to prevent attacks, terrorist or otherwise, and that's a good thing that we don't need to and shouldn't change. Freedom is far more valuable to society than a false sense of security.
Trump's authoritarian bent is the real concern about him, IMO. It's hard to know where he really stands on anything, but at least to me he SEEMS like a social moderate at heart, regardless of stuff said during the race. Of course, the big question there is how 'in charge' will Trump be and for how long? If his ADHD kicks in quickly, Pence may be setting the tone there. And I'm not quite convinced that he and Congress will wreck the economy overall so much as trade some issues for others.
But then you never know...if he starts acting like Putin, perhaps the GOP will respond and reclaim the "get off my lawn" personal freedom mantle they previously held for so long.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:45:02
Frazzled wrote: On the other hand Travis and Bastrop counties both admitted last week that cartels were actively operating in their counties. They had to because of the bodies found on the side of the road.
We need secure borders, and the US just voted to secure its borders. FINALLY.
Yes, it voted to secure its borders based on a vague promise of some sort of undefined physical barrier (which have been shown to be extremely expensive, easily defeatable by elements that wish to do so, and extremely controversial in the long run, in multiple real world instances) with zero details on how it will be built and maintained, and the promise this will all be done on the dime of a foreign government.
In other words, they voted for something that sounded like what they wanted, but is far more fairy tale and pixie dust than reality. We have zero real details on what any sorts of actual measures will be taken, how they will be implemented, and where the resources will come from.
We'll see if anything actually happens. I expect we'll see some budget shuffling and maybe a nice bump to the border patrol, but probably no fortress america wall any time soon.
But how many people do you reckon voted for Trump based on the idea of a physical wall between them and Mexico and will be disappointed if one doesn't materialise?
I can't imagine it was actually that many. Of the people who voted for immigration based reasons (of which I'm sure there was a lot) I think they'd be more interested in changes to immigration policies and policing illegal immigration more so than a physical wall to Mexico. But then who knows, maybe lots of people are really hoping for a wall that can be seen from space.
Given the actions of the Republican party largely treating immigration reform and border security as distinct issues, with the latter supposedly having to be "taken care of" before theyd look at the former, and how toxic the idea of immigration reform has become for the Republicans, I would suspect that "the wall" is the big thing on many of their minds.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
So, wanting secure, sovereign borders, and taking measures to prevent anymore Orlandos and San Bernidinos is "preaching hate"?
Sorry, amigo. The world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Fundamentalist Islam is going full tilt, European nations are having internal issues due to an immigration crisis, and Mexico is in the middle of a drug war that's been slowly spilling over the border. People understand that, and Trump played that to win. Whether or not the status quo will change remains to be seen. I have my doubts anything will, but I could be wrong.
In the middle of? Mexico has been having a drug war since the 70's, it's always been leaking into the US, mainly San Antonio. European nations are having internal issues because disenfranchised Muslims are joining with groups like ISIS because they feel a sense of belonging, especially in a post-9/11 world. Is Islam really a hateful religion, or are we reaching a boiling point where people are trying to adjust and coexist in multi-cultural nations and clashing is occurring?
Are you actually open to this as a question, or is it a priori that it could not possibly be true?
A Town Called Malus wrote: One of the San Bernadino shooters was born in the USA, as was the guy who carried out the Orlando shooting.
If you want to take measures to stop those things from happening, then figure out why US citizens are turning weapons on their fellow countrymen. Why are they susceptible to radicalisation?
Cracking down on a community with harsh policing and scapegoating will not stop young people from deciding to fight back against a society which they perceive as their enemy. If anything it will increase the proportion who retaliate to their perceived persecution.
Or several straight, white, Christian shooters? Nah, it's easier to scapegoat and police an entire minority than face bigger issues like mental stability and why people feel the need to resort to violence.
This is a dangerously misguided idea, comparing shooters motivated by metal illness to shooters that believe, with excellent reasoning, that their faith endorses certain kinds of violent acts.
Let's step away from Islam for a moment. I am an orthodox Jew, one might even go so far as to say that I am a Jewish Fundamentalist (depending on definitions). As such, I believe, as a moral certainty, that my God instructs that there are times when violence is not only appropriate, but obligatory.
I don't believe this because of voices in my head, or delusions, but words on a page. Very important words in very important books. Ignoring those words doesn't make them go away: we must accomodate ourselves to them, or deny them (and our faith).
To reduce all violence done in the name of Islam to mental illness and economic conditions is not only far too reductionist but deeply insulting to the Islamic faith. It makes Islam into an empty vessel, an urn to be filled rather then a lamp that gives light. As someone that takes my own faith very seriously, I cannot endorse such a stance, for it would exculpate Islam by destroying it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:49:46
~1.5k
The mainstream media just upped and left? They went home? I find that pretty remarkable... 
As I understand, there's a metric f-ton of red tape and qualified majorities (unanimous decision by all states even?) needed.