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Prestor Jon wrote: It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
Well said. I guess we are always doomed to say, "but this time it's true."
Are you two really trying to equate the campaign promises and rhetoric that got Obama elected in 2008 and Trump elected in 2016?
Because I can't recall minorities in 2008 following rural whites around and threatening that their guns would be taken away, that they'd all be atheists or devil-worshipers, or they'd be deported to Europe once Obama was in the White House
No, I'm trying to explain that just as it was impossible for Obama to single handedly send people to FEMA camps, declare all veterans to be domestic terrorists, confiscate all our guns, cancel the 2016 elections, enact Sharia law at the federal level and subvert the US into becoming a communist country its' also impossible for Trump tosingle handedly deport tens of millions of people, build a giant wall across the entire southern border, drop nuclear weapons on half the middle east, repeal NAFTA, end NATO, etc.
I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between justifiable fears and hyperbolic fears.
Okay, all the examples you provided are all actions that Obama has been accused of by the Republican party and haven't actually been said by him. And you're right in that, even if any of those ideas were originally from him, he couldn't do any of them with Republicans in control of Congress.
But your Trump examples? They're all come directly from his mouth. Every single one. They're the promises that energized his supporters through the primaries and the general election. And he doesn't have to do them single handedly. He has the Republican Party in control of the government supporting him, a party that is increasingly being taken over by the extreme fringe.
There are also other fears. Are you going to deny that the VP of a President-Elect, and the party of the VP and President-Elect are supporters of the horrific and degrading methodology of conversion therapy? Should my friends in the LGBT community not be worried that the rights that they've only recently managed to get are going to be curtailed, since that's one of the major platforms of the too-be governing party?
Regardless of who said them they were being said and used to fan widespread panic and fear even though they weren't actually possible.
I'm not defending anything Trump or Pence have said or done or votes they've cast or legislation they've sponsored or signed.
Should your LGBT friends be concerned? To the extent that social issues included LGBT issues have become political footballs on the state and federal levels yes your friends should be concerned. Should your friends be concerned that Trump and Pence are going to somehow enact anti LGBT legislation through a Congress that only has a narrow Republican majority in the senate? Not really no. What anti LGBT legislation do you think Trump would try to pass that would get unified Republican support from people like Ryan in the House and people like McCain, Paul, and Rubio in the senate? And get all that Republican support without raising strong Democrat opposition? And be of sufficient priority for Trump waste valuable political capital on it before the midterm elections?
Two things have me worried about Trump's legislation and Republicans. The first is the overwhelming support from the Republican base that Trump recieved in comparison to McCain, Paul, Rubio and Ryan. The second is that those politicians continued to support Trump despite everything he said and did, just so they could retain office.
If Republicans believe that their base will support them if they want to enact anti-LGBT laws, along with the fact this election has proven that enough people may not care enough to fight back against them, then they might.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 20:46:05
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
Prestor Jon wrote: It's easy to see why people are terrified but its extremely exasperating to see that they are. When Obama got elected and a lot of Republicans/Conservatives et al were wailing and gnashing their teeth about how Obama would destroy America as we know it and do X Y and Z that were all terrible and awful and Oh noes we need to buy up all the guns now. That was hyperbolic and ignorant, and by ignorant I don't mean racist or bigoted (although you could find examples of some people saying bigoted things about Obama) but ignorant n the sense of knowing how the federal govt works and the powers that the PotUS can wield. There was very little that Obama or any president can do single handedly to cause any widespread changes to the country. For the 8 years that Obama was in office aside from passing the ACA when he had a few years with a Democrat supermajority he spent most of his time continuing policies and programs that were consistent with what was going on under Bush43 and Clinton too. Very little really changed because the president doesn't have the kind of power the office would need to do any of the scary bad things people are terrified of the president from doing. So it's easy to see why people are terrified, they've been misinformed and worked up by hyperbolic rhetoric from political organizations and profit driven media outlets.
It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
I know what you're saying.
However, there are also citizens feeling uneasy not because of presidential power, but because of hurtful and prejudiced things that Trump's said during the campaign and over the years, and what it means for a man who's said those things to be our nation's president.
I don't think those feelings are irrelevant because of the existence of the legislative and judicial branches. I mean, I both took the high road and discussed the workings of our government when I had the conversation with my mixed-background kids, who were already aware that Trump has said not-nice things about non-white people and women. I'm not going to poison their minds about their president, and I don't want them to feel worried.
But it was a difficult f@#%ing conversation. You do get that part of it, right?
Yeah I get it. I didn't vote for Trump, he is so far from my idea of a good candidate that if my idea of a good candidate lit a match the light from that match would take millions of years to reach Trump.
I'm not saying people can't have valid negative feelings about Trump winning I'm encouraging people to temper those feelings with the reality of the limitations of executive power. Be sad, be angry, be disappointed, be upset but don't be freaking out because you think Trump is going to send federal JBTs to come get you.
whembly wrote: Can see twittah, but I guess it's Trump and Obama shaking hands?
This is the greatest photo in the history of politics pic.twitter.com/BPG6h3CwKs
— Benny (@bennyjohnson) November 10, 2016
Hey Mods, to lighten the whole post election mood, would it be possible to start a new thread leading off with this picture for people to "Insert dialogue exchange here"? Could be hilarious and allow some much needed venting.
Obama: "Hey Donald, you were right, I am Kenyan."
Trump: "That's alright Mr. President, I'm half Orangutan."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 20:53:02
whembly wrote: Can see twittah, but I guess it's Trump and Obama shaking hands?
This is the greatest photo in the history of politics pic.twitter.com/BPG6h3CwKs
— Benny (@bennyjohnson) November 10, 2016
Hey Mods, to lighten the whole post election mood, would it be possible to start a new thread leading off with this picture for people to "Insert dialogue exchange here"? Could be hilarious.
Obama: "Hey Donald, you were right, I am Kenyan."
Trump: "That's alright Mr. President, I'm half Orangutan."
Even Better...
Trump: "I had to win the election in order to get a face-to-face meeting... show me your birth certificate".
SickSix wrote: Guess where all the extreme right anti-Obama people, that swore their guns and liberty was going to be taken away, are right now?
Living, breathing and probably in the same socio-economic status they were before.
As much as I decried Obama's administration, my life hardly changed.
Well guess what is going to happen to all you folks decrying a Trump Presidency? Most likely the same thing.
Again, I'm going to point this out.
All those claims about Obama's administration were made by Republicans to scare their voters. Obama did not make those threats. Democrats did not make those threats. Most liberal supporters did not make those threats, save the fringe, and they're mostly kept to college campuses and Tumblr.
Those claims about Trump? They came directly from him. They're coming from Republicans who backed him. They're coming from the people who voted for him. Not all of them, but a worryingly large percentage. And we're watching the conservative fringe take over the Republican Party, as their opinions and ideas are validated by Trump's election.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/10 20:56:17
Prestor Jon wrote: It's easy to see why people are terrified but its extremely exasperating to see that they are. When Obama got elected and a lot of Republicans/Conservatives et al were wailing and gnashing their teeth about how Obama would destroy America as we know it and do X Y and Z that were all terrible and awful and Oh noes we need to buy up all the guns now. That was hyperbolic and ignorant, and by ignorant I don't mean racist or bigoted (although you could find examples of some people saying bigoted things about Obama) but ignorant n the sense of knowing how the federal govt works and the powers that the PotUS can wield. There was very little that Obama or any president can do single handedly to cause any widespread changes to the country. For the 8 years that Obama was in office aside from passing the ACA when he had a few years with a Democrat supermajority he spent most of his time continuing policies and programs that were consistent with what was going on under Bush43 and Clinton too. Very little really changed because the president doesn't have the kind of power the office would need to do any of the scary bad things people are terrified of the president from doing. So it's easy to see why people are terrified, they've been misinformed and worked up by hyperbolic rhetoric from political organizations and profit driven media outlets.
It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
I know what you're saying.
However, there are also citizens feeling uneasy not because of presidential power, but because of hurtful and prejudiced things that Trump's said during the campaign and over the years, and what it means for a man who's said those things to be our nation's president.
I don't think those feelings are irrelevant because of the existence of the legislative and judicial branches. I mean, I both took the high road and discussed the workings of our government when I had the conversation with my mixed-background kids, who were already aware that Trump has said not-nice things about non-white people and women. I'm not going to poison their minds about their president, and I don't want them to feel worried.
But it was a difficult f@#%ing conversation. You do get that part of it, right?
Yeah I get it. I didn't vote for Trump, he is so far from my idea of a good candidate that if my idea of a good candidate lit a match the light from that match would take millions of years to reach Trump.
I'm not saying people can't have valid negative feelings about Trump winning I'm encouraging people to temper those feelings with the reality of the limitations of executive power. Be sad, be angry, be disappointed, be upset but don't be freaking out because you think Trump is going to send federal JBTs to come get you.
what? WHAT? He said his first plan was to get rid of the illegal immigrants and build a wall. He's made plenty of hateful remarks against Latinos and Muslims. Mike Pence has the whole hatred towards the LGBTQ thing covered.
If you're not white and straight, I'd say you have a decent reason to be afraid.
SickSix wrote: Guess where all the extreme right anti-Obama people, that swore their guns and liberty was going to be taken away, are right now?
Living, breathing and probably in the same socio-economic status they were before.
As much as I decried Obama's administration, my life hardly changed.
Well guess what is going to happen to all you folks decrying a Trump Presidency? Most likely the same thing.
Again, I'm going to point this out.
All those claims about Obama's administration were made by Republicans to scare their voters. Obama did not make those threats. Democrats did not make those threats. Most liberal supporters did not make those threats, save the fringe, and they're mostly kept to college campuses and Tumblr.
Those claims about Trump? They came directly from him. They're coming from Republicans who backed him. They're coming from the people who voted for him. Not all of them, but a worryingly large percentage. And we're watching the conservative fringe take over the Republican Party, as their opinions and ideas are validated by Trump's election.
The part where he said he'd bomb the crap out of ISIS, bomb the crap out of Iraq? Where he encouraged violence towards people at his rallies? Yeah, we just voted him president.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 20:57:36
If you're not white and straight, I'd say you have a decent reason to be afraid.
And male. Don't forget, this is the party that wants to dictate what women should be allowed to do with their bodies.
Hell, as long as the Republicans can keep the economy from gaking itself in the next four years (cough2008recessioncough), I'm basically set. And I'm still very, very afraid.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:01:06
Prestor Jon wrote: It's easy to see why people are terrified but its extremely exasperating to see that they are. When Obama got elected and a lot of Republicans/Conservatives et al were wailing and gnashing their teeth about how Obama would destroy America as we know it and do X Y and Z that were all terrible and awful and Oh noes we need to buy up all the guns now. That was hyperbolic and ignorant, and by ignorant I don't mean racist or bigoted (although you could find examples of some people saying bigoted things about Obama) but ignorant n the sense of knowing how the federal govt works and the powers that the PotUS can wield. There was very little that Obama or any president can do single handedly to cause any widespread changes to the country. For the 8 years that Obama was in office aside from passing the ACA when he had a few years with a Democrat supermajority he spent most of his time continuing policies and programs that were consistent with what was going on under Bush43 and Clinton too. Very little really changed because the president doesn't have the kind of power the office would need to do any of the scary bad things people are terrified of the president from doing. So it's easy to see why people are terrified, they've been misinformed and worked up by hyperbolic rhetoric from political organizations and profit driven media outlets.
It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
I know what you're saying.
However, there are also citizens feeling uneasy not because of presidential power, but because of hurtful and prejudiced things that Trump's said during the campaign and over the years, and what it means for a man who's said those things to be our nation's president.
I don't think those feelings are irrelevant because of the existence of the legislative and judicial branches. I mean, I both took the high road and discussed the workings of our government when I had the conversation with my mixed-background kids, who were already aware that Trump has said not-nice things about non-white people and women. I'm not going to poison their minds about their president, and I don't want them to feel worried.
But it was a difficult f@#%ing conversation. You do get that part of it, right?
Yeah I get it. I didn't vote for Trump, he is so far from my idea of a good candidate that if my idea of a good candidate lit a match the light from that match would take millions of years to reach Trump.
I'm not saying people can't have valid negative feelings about Trump winning I'm encouraging people to temper those feelings with the reality of the limitations of executive power. Be sad, be angry, be disappointed, be upset but don't be freaking out because you think Trump is going to send federal JBTs to come get you.
what? WHAT? He said his first plan was to get rid of the illegal immigrants and build a wall. He's made plenty of hateful remarks against Latinos and Muslims. Mike Pence has the whole hatred towards the LGBTQ thing covered.
If you're not white and straight, I'd say you have a decent reason to be afraid.
SickSix wrote: Guess where all the extreme right anti-Obama people, that swore their guns and liberty was going to be taken away, are right now?
Living, breathing and probably in the same socio-economic status they were before.
As much as I decried Obama's administration, my life hardly changed.
Well guess what is going to happen to all you folks decrying a Trump Presidency? Most likely the same thing.
Again, I'm going to point this out.
All those claims about Obama's administration were made by Republicans to scare their voters. Obama did not make those threats. Democrats did not make those threats. Most liberal supporters did not make those threats, save the fringe, and they're mostly kept to college campuses and Tumblr.
Those claims about Trump? They came directly from him. They're coming from Republicans who backed him. They're coming from the people who voted for him. Not all of them, but a worryingly large percentage. And we're watching the conservative fringe take over the Republican Party, as their opinions and ideas are validated by Trump's election.
The part where he said he'd bomb the crap out of ISIS, bomb the crap out of Iraq? Where he encouraged violence towards people at his rallies? Yeah, we just voted him president.
with texas being so close and hillary actually having more popular votes there already, what if it flipped? trump would lose and hillary would win and hilarity would ensue.
Spoiler:
Hillary does not have more popular votes in Texas. What are you talking about?
99% reporting Votes
Donald Trump Republican Party 53% 4,681,590
Hillary Clinton Democratic Party 43% 3,867,816
Gary Johnson Libertarian Party 3% 282,524
Jill Stein Green Party 0.9% 71,307
Hypothetically though, using TX as an example since their 38 votes "could" change the outcome. What would happen if the popular vote turned out in favor of Hilary, yet all the ECs "jumped the gun" and voted Trump. Would the outcome change and Hilary become President elect, or would it just be "oops, too late, he is still gonna be Potus because the EC voted that way"
Or, I guess the "statistics" of it are fool proof meaning that it is impossible for the EC to "vote contrary to the peoples' vote"
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:03:47
Hypothetically though, using TX as an example since their 38 votes "could" change the outcome. What would happen if the popular vote turned out in favor of Hilary, yet all the ECs "jumped the gun" and voted Trump.
Would the outcome change and Hilary become President elect,
or would it just be "oops, too late, he is still gonna be Potus because the EC voted that way"
-
There is no "jumping the gun." The electoral college doesn't vote until: On the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December (December 19, 2016). That is plenty of time for recounts and even hand counts of close precincts to be completed.
If the current recount shows that Hillary won Texas (it won't), then she would be awarded those votes and become President.
with texas being so close and hillary actually having more popular votes there already, what if it flipped? trump would lose and hillary would win and hilarity would ensue.
Hillary does not have more popular votes in Texas. What are you talking about?
someone posted earlier that hillary had more popular votes there, that's what I get for believe the posters here
with texas being so close and hillary actually having more popular votes there already, what if it flipped? trump would lose and hillary would win and hilarity would ensue.
Spoiler:
Hillary does not have more popular votes in Texas. What are you talking about?
99% reporting
Votes
Donald Trump
Republican Party
53%
4,681,590
Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
43%
3,867,816
Gary Johnson
Libertarian Party
3%
282,524
Jill Stein
Green Party
0.9%
71,307
Hypothetically though, using TX as an example since their 38 votes "could" change the outcome. What would happen if the popular vote turned out in favor of Hilary, yet all the ECs "jumped the gun" and voted Trump.
Would the outcome change and Hilary become President elect,
or would it just be "oops, too late, he is still gonna be Potus because the EC voted that way"
-
They haven't voted yet. They won't vote until December some time, IIRC. This is the media calling it based on the information we have right now. The margins are enough to state pretty clearly that Trump one in the EC.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
with texas being so close and hillary actually having more popular votes there already, what if it flipped? trump would lose and hillary would win and hilarity would ensue.
Hillary does not have more popular votes in Texas. What are you talking about?
someone posted earlier that hillary had more popular votes there, that's what I get for believe the posters here
Ah. Overall, yes. It looks like across the country she had more than Trump. Certainly not in Texas, though. However, someone else posted that with the ballot count continuing in some areas, Trump might just edge her out.
Prestor Jon wrote: No, I'm trying to explain that just as it was impossible for Obama to single handedly send people to FEMA camps, declare all veterans to be domestic terrorists, confiscate all our guns, cancel the 2016 elections, enact Sharia law at the federal level and subvert the US into becoming a communist country its' also impossible for Trump to single handedly deport tens of millions of people, build a giant wall across the entire southern border, drop nuclear weapons on half the middle east, repeal NAFTA, end NATO, etc.
I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between justifiable fears and hyperbolic fears.
And the difference is that Obama wasn't promising to do those things. The FEMA camps and Sharia law were tinfoil hat delusions, not Obama's campaign promises. Trump, on the other hand, has proudly said "I'm going to build a wall and deport millions, and I think we should be using our nukes".
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Prestor Jon wrote: It's easy to see why people are terrified but its extremely exasperating to see that they are. When Obama got elected and a lot of Republicans/Conservatives et al were wailing and gnashing their teeth about how Obama would destroy America as we know it and do X Y and Z that were all terrible and awful and Oh noes we need to buy up all the guns now. That was hyperbolic and ignorant, and by ignorant I don't mean racist or bigoted (although you could find examples of some people saying bigoted things about Obama) but ignorant n the sense of knowing how the federal govt works and the powers that the PotUS can wield. There was very little that Obama or any president can do single handedly to cause any widespread changes to the country. For the 8 years that Obama was in office aside from passing the ACA when he had a few years with a Democrat supermajority he spent most of his time continuing policies and programs that were consistent with what was going on under Bush43 and Clinton too. Very little really changed because the president doesn't have the kind of power the office would need to do any of the scary bad things people are terrified of the president from doing. So it's easy to see why people are terrified, they've been misinformed and worked up by hyperbolic rhetoric from political organizations and profit driven media outlets.
It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
I know what you're saying.
However, there are also citizens feeling uneasy not because of presidential power, but because of hurtful and prejudiced things that Trump's said during the campaign and over the years, and what it means for a man who's said those things to be our nation's president.
I don't think those feelings are irrelevant because of the existence of the legislative and judicial branches. I mean, I both took the high road and discussed the workings of our government when I had the conversation with my mixed-background kids, who were already aware that Trump has said not-nice things about non-white people and women. I'm not going to poison their minds about their president, and I don't want them to feel worried.
But it was a difficult f@#%ing conversation. You do get that part of it, right?
Yeah I get it. I didn't vote for Trump, he is so far from my idea of a good candidate that if my idea of a good candidate lit a match the light from that match would take millions of years to reach Trump.
I'm not saying people can't have valid negative feelings about Trump winning I'm encouraging people to temper those feelings with the reality of the limitations of executive power. Be sad, be angry, be disappointed, be upset but don't be freaking out because you think Trump is going to send federal JBTs to come get you.
what? WHAT? He said his first plan was to get rid of the illegal immigrants and build a wall. He's made plenty of hateful remarks against Latinos and Muslims. Mike Pence has the whole hatred towards the LGBTQ thing covered.
If you're not white and straight, I'd say you have a decent reason to be afraid.
SickSix wrote: Guess where all the extreme right anti-Obama people, that swore their guns and liberty was going to be taken away, are right now?
Living, breathing and probably in the same socio-economic status they were before.
As much as I decried Obama's administration, my life hardly changed.
Well guess what is going to happen to all you folks decrying a Trump Presidency? Most likely the same thing.
Again, I'm going to point this out.
All those claims about Obama's administration were made by Republicans to scare their voters. Obama did not make those threats. Democrats did not make those threats. Most liberal supporters did not make those threats, save the fringe, and they're mostly kept to college campuses and Tumblr.
Those claims about Trump? They came directly from him. They're coming from Republicans who backed him. They're coming from the people who voted for him. Not all of them, but a worryingly large percentage. And we're watching the conservative fringe take over the Republican Party, as their opinions and ideas are validated by Trump's election.
The part where he said he'd bomb the crap out of ISIS, bomb the crap out of Iraq? Where he encouraged violence towards people at his rallies? Yeah, we just voted him president.
I mean... I voted for the stoner guy, but at some point you have to give Cheeto Jesus a chance to prove you wrong.
Sure, the same way he gave women a chance: grabbing them by the ***. Have you looked at Mike Pence's policies? Honestly. This isn't a bash, this is an honest question. Mike Pence has unabashedly shown he doesn't give a feth about women or the LGBTQ.
Prestor Jon wrote: No, I'm trying to explain that just as it was impossible for Obama to single handedly send people to FEMA camps, declare all veterans to be domestic terrorists, confiscate all our guns, cancel the 2016 elections, enact Sharia law at the federal level and subvert the US into becoming a communist country its' also impossible for Trump to single handedly deport tens of millions of people, build a giant wall across the entire southern border, drop nuclear weapons on half the middle east, repeal NAFTA, end NATO, etc.
I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between justifiable fears and hyperbolic fears.
And the difference is that Obama wasn't promising to do those things. The FEMA camps and Sharia law were tinfoil hat delusions, not Obama's campaign promises. Trump, on the other hand, has proudly said "I'm going to build a wall and deport millions, and I think we should be using our nukes".
"Bomb the gak out of them" were I believe his exact words.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:11:32
I mean... I voted for the stoner guy, but at some point you have to give Cheeto Jesus a chance to prove you wrong.
Ah, yes, the old "I held up a flag, now please forgive me, my running mate, and my party for all the things we have said, done, and promised to do for more than the past decade" gambit. Bold strategy, Cotton.
Also, regarding Ms. Nomani. She says that she supposedly supports "the Democratic Party’s position on abortion, same-sex marriage and climate change" - all things that run counter to Republican positions - but she's voting for Trump because she can't afford health insurance under the ACA and she'd like to see the US be tougher on Islam.
Does she really believe that she'll get a better rate if the ACA is repealed, as the Republicans have so often promised to do? Because I can't see insurance companies suddenly cutting costs. Regarding Islam, well, I do think it gets a lot of passes that it shouldn't, just like a lot of religions. But what plan has Trump actually offered that isn't going to create more resent and recruitment?
And if what we've be seeing continues, how long until Ms. Namani changes her mind after she or her family is attacked by someone who doesn't like the color of their skin or the sound of their name? By someone who tells them they should be deported out of Trump's America?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:18:43
Ok...well I guess I feel a bit better about the system than before. Thanks Dakka.
I still think it would be best to do popular voting, but I don't feel strongly enough to do anything about it.
At the very worst, having an all Red government will guarantee that change happens. History will decide if that change is good or not.
I mean... I voted for the stoner guy, but at some point you have to give Cheeto Jesus a chance to prove you wrong.
That's sorta beside the point, what's being said is that Trump spouted a lot of pretty offensive rhetoric. It might all be BS in the end (and I hope so), but it's not like he didn't say all those things.
Kris Kobach on Trump's immigration transition team
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach has advised Donald Trump on immigration for a while. Now, he's on Donald Trump's immigration transition team. The team helps transition President Barack Obama's policies to President-elect Donald Trump's policies.
"I'm a member of the immigration policy transition team and there's going to be a lot to do there in part because Mr. Trump and Mr. Obama are diametric opposites when it comes to immigration policy so there will be a lot of changes," Kobach said.
Kobach has supported Trump from the beginning. When asked, he said a border wall between the United States and Mexico is coming.
"There's no question the wall is going to get built. The only question is how quickly will it get done and who pays for it?" Kobach said.
That's just one of several issues the transition team will tackle along with figuring out how to reverse some of President Obama's immigration policies.
Kobach said he hasn't spoken with Trump personally since Tuesday's win, but he has been in contact with Trump's campaign staff.
He said though the job will take some of his time, it won't take him away from Kansas.
"The work I do with the transition team is just conference calls and email so it's actually people all over the country who are experts in immigration policy and immigration law just working together and talking on the phone," he said.
As for a future with the Trump administration, Kobach said he won't speculate and has no expectation for a full time job.
"I've got plenty to do here in Kansas," Kobach said.
There have also been rumors Trump could choose Governor Sam Brownback as his agriculture secretary. Brownback's spokeswoman said the governor is focused on governing Kansas right now.
Kris Kobach on Trump's immigration transition team
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach has advised Donald Trump on immigration for a while. Now, he's on Donald Trump's immigration transition team. The team helps transition President Barack Obama's policies to President-elect Donald Trump's policies.
"I'm a member of the immigration policy transition team and there's going to be a lot to do there in part because Mr. Trump and Mr. Obama are diametric opposites when it comes to immigration policy so there will be a lot of changes," Kobach said.
Kobach has supported Trump from the beginning. When asked, he said a border wall between the United States and Mexico is coming.
"There's no question the wall is going to get built. The only question is how quickly will it get done and who pays for it?" Kobach said.
That's just one of several issues the transition team will tackle along with figuring out how to reverse some of President Obama's immigration policies.
Kobach said he hasn't spoken with Trump personally since Tuesday's win, but he has been in contact with Trump's campaign staff.
He said though the job will take some of his time, it won't take him away from Kansas.
"The work I do with the transition team is just conference calls and email so it's actually people all over the country who are experts in immigration policy and immigration law just working together and talking on the phone," he said.
As for a future with the Trump administration, Kobach said he won't speculate and has no expectation for a full time job.
"I've got plenty to do here in Kansas," Kobach said.
There have also been rumors Trump could choose Governor Sam Brownback as his agriculture secretary. Brownback's spokeswoman said the governor is focused on governing Kansas right now.
Kris Kobach on Trump's immigration transition team
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach has advised Donald Trump on immigration for a while. Now, he's on Donald Trump's immigration transition team. The team helps transition President Barack Obama's policies to President-elect Donald Trump's policies.
"I'm a member of the immigration policy transition team and there's going to be a lot to do there in part because Mr. Trump and Mr. Obama are diametric opposites when it comes to immigration policy so there will be a lot of changes," Kobach said.
Kobach has supported Trump from the beginning. When asked, he said a border wall between the United States and Mexico is coming.
"There's no question the wall is going to get built. The only question is how quickly will it get done and who pays for it?" Kobach said.
That's just one of several issues the transition team will tackle along with figuring out how to reverse some of President Obama's immigration policies.
Kobach said he hasn't spoken with Trump personally since Tuesday's win, but he has been in contact with Trump's campaign staff.
He said though the job will take some of his time, it won't take him away from Kansas.
"The work I do with the transition team is just conference calls and email so it's actually people all over the country who are experts in immigration policy and immigration law just working together and talking on the phone," he said.
As for a future with the Trump administration, Kobach said he won't speculate and has no expectation for a full time job.
"I've got plenty to do here in Kansas," Kobach said.
There have also been rumors Trump could choose Governor Sam Brownback as his agriculture secretary. Brownback's spokeswoman said the governor is focused on governing Kansas right now.
Prestor Jon wrote: It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
Well said. I guess we are always doomed to say, "but this time it's true."
Are you two really trying to equate the campaign promises and rhetoric that got Obama elected in 2008 and Trump elected in 2016?
Because I can't recall minorities in 2008 following rural whites around and threatening that their guns would be taken away, that they'd all be atheists or devil-worshipers, or they'd be deported to Europe once Obama was in the White House
No, I'm trying to explain that just as it was impossible for Obama to single handedly send people to FEMA camps, declare all veterans to be domestic terrorists, confiscate all our guns, cancel the 2016 elections, enact Sharia law at the federal level and subvert the US into becoming a communist country its' also impossible for Trump tosingle handedly deport tens of millions of people, build a giant wall across the entire southern border, drop nuclear weapons on half the middle east, repeal NAFTA, end NATO, etc.
I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between justifiable fears and hyperbolic fears.
Okay, all the examples you provided are all actions that Obama has been accused of by the Republican party and haven't actually been said by him. And you're right in that, even if any of those ideas were originally from him, he couldn't do any of them with Republicans in control of Congress.
But your Trump examples? They're all come directly from his mouth. Every single one. They're the promises that energized his supporters through the primaries and the general election. And he doesn't have to do them single handedly. He has the Republican Party in control of the government supporting him, a party that is increasingly being taken over by the extreme fringe.
There are also other fears. Are you going to deny that the VP of a President-Elect, and the party of the VP and President-Elect are supporters of the horrific and degrading methodology of conversion therapy? Should my friends in the LGBT community not be worried that the rights that they've only recently managed to get are going to be curtailed, since that's one of the major platforms of the too-be governing party?
Regardless of who said them they were being said and used to fan widespread panic and fear even though they weren't actually possible.
I'm not defending anything Trump or Pence have said or done or votes they've cast or legislation they've sponsored or signed.
Should your LGBT friends be concerned? To the extent that social issues included LGBT issues have become political footballs on the state and federal levels yes your friends should be concerned. Should your friends be concerned that Trump and Pence are going to somehow enact anti LGBT legislation through a Congress that only has a narrow Republican majority in the senate? Not really no. What anti LGBT legislation do you think Trump would try to pass that would get unified Republican support from people like Ryan in the House and people like McCain, Paul, and Rubio in the senate? And get all that Republican support without raising strong Democrat opposition? And be of sufficient priority for Trump waste valuable political capital on it before the midterm elections?
Two things have me worried about Trump's legislation and Republicans. The first is the overwhelming support from the Republican base that Trump recieved in comparison to McCain, Paul, Rubio and Ryan. The second is that those politicians continued to support Trump despite everything he said and did, just so they could retain office.
If Republicans believe that their base will support them if they want to enact anti-LGBT laws, along with the fact this election has proven that enough people may not care enough to fight back against them, then they might.
Ok, I understand that fear but I think the probability of something like that happening is very low. People like Ryan, Rubio, Cruz etc. eventually supported Trump's candidacy but that was due more to party obligation than out of any shared ideological or legislative agenda. Those guys didn't want to lose RNC funding or set themselves up for future challenger from the right to beat them up over not supporting Trump/helping Clinton win. Now that all those senators have secured another term they're pretty well insulated as long as they vote in a manner that suits their constituents in their home states.
While Trump did a better job of rallying support from his party than Clinton he still got fewer votes than McCain or Romney so while his base turned out in better numbers than Hillary he didn't grow the party or expand support, he just lost less Republican support than Hillary lost Democrat support. Trump's base isn't evenly spread out amongst the states. In Florida for example Trump narrowly won and Rubio doesn't want to go to far in supporting Trump that he risks alienating voters who are anti Trump Republicans or moderate Democrats he might get. All those swing states that broke Trump's way did so by very narrow margins so Republicans from those states are going to be very careful not to overreach and risk losing re-election over a social issue like LGBT that isn't anywhere near the top of peoples' priority lists in national polls.
Yes Trump said what he said but that doesn't have any bearing on his ability to actually do it. He can promise "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." that doesn't mean he can deliver on it. Trump can't build a wall unilaterally. He'll need Congress to pass legislation to do it and there won't be much enthusiasm among Republicans to sign onto that ineffective boondoggle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:39:05
Wow. Protests, riots, and beatings are in the news. Aside from the internet asshats posting in forums and comments sections, was there anything like this when Obama was elected?
Breotan wrote: Wow. Protests, riots, and beatings are in the news. Aside from the internet asshats posting in forums and comments sections, was there anything like this when Obama was elected?
Not like this no...
The McCain/Romney voters were demoralized and mopey...sure.
These protest reminds me of the Bush years.
I guess we'll be hearing a resurgent of "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" again.
Prestor Jon wrote: It's disheartening because one would think that the people from the side that thought the reaction to Obama was hyperbolic nonsense would not indulge in the same kind of hyperbolic nonsense about Trump.
Well said. I guess we are always doomed to say, "but this time it's true."
Are you two really trying to equate the campaign promises and rhetoric that got Obama elected in 2008 and Trump elected in 2016?
Because I can't recall minorities in 2008 following rural whites around and threatening that their guns would be taken away, that they'd all be atheists or devil-worshipers, or they'd be deported to Europe once Obama was in the White House
No, I'm trying to explain that just as it was impossible for Obama to single handedly send people to FEMA camps, declare all veterans to be domestic terrorists, confiscate all our guns, cancel the 2016 elections, enact Sharia law at the federal level and subvert the US into becoming a communist country its' also impossible for Trump tosingle handedly deport tens of millions of people, build a giant wall across the entire southern border, drop nuclear weapons on half the middle east, repeal NAFTA, end NATO, etc.
I'm trying to explain that there is a difference between justifiable fears and hyperbolic fears.
Okay, all the examples you provided are all actions that Obama has been accused of by the Republican party and haven't actually been said by him. And you're right in that, even if any of those ideas were originally from him, he couldn't do any of them with Republicans in control of Congress.
But your Trump examples? They're all come directly from his mouth. Every single one. They're the promises that energized his supporters through the primaries and the general election. And he doesn't have to do them single handedly. He has the Republican Party in control of the government supporting him, a party that is increasingly being taken over by the extreme fringe.
There are also other fears. Are you going to deny that the VP of a President-Elect, and the party of the VP and President-Elect are supporters of the horrific and degrading methodology of conversion therapy? Should my friends in the LGBT community not be worried that the rights that they've only recently managed to get are going to be curtailed, since that's one of the major platforms of the too-be governing party?
Regardless of who said them they were being said and used to fan widespread panic and fear even though they weren't actually possible.
I'm not defending anything Trump or Pence have said or done or votes they've cast or legislation they've sponsored or signed.
Should your LGBT friends be concerned? To the extent that social issues included LGBT issues have become political footballs on the state and federal levels yes your friends should be concerned. Should your friends be concerned that Trump and Pence are going to somehow enact anti LGBT legislation through a Congress that only has a narrow Republican majority in the senate? Not really no. What anti LGBT legislation do you think Trump would try to pass that would get unified Republican support from people like Ryan in the House and people like McCain, Paul, and Rubio in the senate? And get all that Republican support without raising strong Democrat opposition? And be of sufficient priority for Trump waste valuable political capital on it before the midterm elections?
Two things have me worried about Trump's legislation and Republicans. The first is the overwhelming support from the Republican base that Trump recieved in comparison to McCain, Paul, Rubio and Ryan. The second is that those politicians continued to support Trump despite everything he said and did, just so they could retain office.
If Republicans believe that their base will support them if they want to enact anti-LGBT laws, along with the fact this election has proven that enough people may not care enough to fight back against them, then they might.
Ok, I understand that fear but I think the probability of something like that happening is very low. People like Ryan, Rubio, Cruz etc. eventually supported Trump's candidacy but that was due more to party obligation than out of any shared ideological or legislative agenda. Those guys didn't want to lose RNC funding or set themselves up for future challenger from the right to beat them up over not supporting Trump/helping Clinton win. Now that all those senators have secured another term they're pretty well insulated as long as they vote in a manner that suits their constituents in their home states.
While Trump did a better job of rallying support from his party than Clinton he still got fewer votes than McCain or Romney so while his base turned out in better numbers than Hillary he didn't grow the party or expand support, he just lost less Republican support than Hillary lost Democrat support. Trump's base isn't evenly spread out amongst the states. In Florida for example Trump narrowly won and Rubio doesn't want to go to far in supporting Trump that he risks alienating voters who are anti Trump Republicans or moderate Democrats he might get. All those swing states that broke Trump's way did so by very narrow margins so Republicans from those states are going to be very careful not to overreach and risk losing re-election over a social issue like LGBT that isn't anywhere near the top of peoples' priority lists in national polls.
Yes Trump said what he said but that doesn't have any bearing on his ability to actually do it. He can promise "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." that doesn't mean he can deliver on it. Trump can't build a wall unilaterally. He'll need Congress to pass legislation to do it and there won't be much enthusiasm among Republicans to sign onto that ineffective boondoggle.
Wait, so Obama is coming for our guns, Hillary is going to start World War 3, but Trump can't do anything he promised? Dude. Do you even read what you write?
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
what? WHAT? He said his first plan was to get rid of the illegal immigrants and build a wall. He's made plenty of hateful remarks against Latinos and Muslims. Mike Pence has the whole hatred towards the LGBTQ thing covered.
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