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redben wrote:
Alan is a pretty big deal in GW. If you read Kirby's preambles, when he discusses what it is that GW do, Alan sometimes gets a mention. He's the guy that thinks he understands GW's business, what it is they do, thinks he knows who their customers are, how to sell to them, and so on.

Slight correction. Judging from the continuing decline in sales, I'd argue that he hasn't done very well there.

There's been plenty of anecdotes over the years over his antics. From his often mentioned hatred of Genestealers, his attempt at blocking the Riptide and Imperial Knight from being produced and so on. All anecdotes and unsubstantiated of course, but that's a lot of smoke....

There's a lot more that could be added. Regardless of whether Alan's ideas on the marketplace and who GW's customers are are still relevant, he's been a huge influence in GW for a long time now. For him to be gone is a big deal. It isn't just the guy who's running the IP department is gone.

If Merett was so important to GW's previous course, then surely it was only a matter of time before the Roundtree iceberg crossed paths with that particular ship.

Merret was responsible for the 'no-points' decision in AoS (and I think also for the 'we are a miniatures company' line, but possibly not alone in that one).

If you are the guardian of the gaming experience (which is what his IP role was), and you get that call so competely wrong, then you probably have outlived your usefulness.

Anon052 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

But, on the other hand, he was one of the biggest reasons for GW's problems in later years. His CHS testimony alone should, from a PR standpoint, have been enough to give him the boot.

What exactly happend there?

For the head of intellectual property not to know the difference between copyright and a idea that's been in the public domain for a long long time (Roman numerals) spoke volumes.

It was like a football coach not knowing the difference between attack and defence...

There are numerous examples of this in the chapterhouse thread, but that's the one I always remember.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

redben wrote:
There's a lot more that could be added. Regardless of whether Alan's ideas on the marketplace and who GW's customers are are still relevant, he's been a huge influence in GW for a long time now. For him to be gone is a big deal. It isn't just the guy who's running the IP department is gone.

I agree that it's good to have continuation at an institution, and If somebody is good at their job and is successful for a long time, say Alex Ferguson at Manchester United, you won't get rid of them.

But the business world is full of examples of people staying on long after their sell by date, and the company suffering as a result...

I believe he was also the one to say that GW.customers' favorite hobby was buying GW products.

 zedmeister wrote:

redben wrote:
Alan is a pretty big deal in GW. If you read Kirby's preambles, when he discusses what it is that GW do, Alan sometimes gets a mention. He's the guy that thinks he understands GW's business, what it is they do, thinks he knows who their customers are, how to sell to them, and so on.

Slight correction. Judging from the continuing decline in sales, I'd argue that he hasn't done very well there.

There's been plenty of anecdotes over the years over his antics. From his often mentioned hatred of Genestealers, his attempt at blocking the Riptide and Imperial Knight from being produced and so on. All anecdotes and unsubstantiated of course, but that's a lot of smoke....

The riptide and the Imperial knight are wonderful models, but they should have been blocked from being used in 40k, as it completely unbalanced the game. Maybe Merett had a point?

 zedmeister wrote:
his attempt at blocking the Riptide

As a puritan Tau player, I am sad that he didn't succeed

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The riptide and the Imperial knight are wonderful models, but they should have been blocked from being used in 40k, as it completely unbalanced the game. Maybe Merett had a point?

From what I understand it was more the concern they wouldn't sell. GW were completely taken aback at how many Imperial Knights they sold.

 torgoch wrote:
Merret was responsible for the 'no-points' decision in AoS (and I think also for the 'we are a miniatures company' line, but possibly not alone in that one).

If you are the guardian of the gaming experience (which is what his IP role was), and you get that call so competely wrong, then you probably have outlived your usefulness.

I had heard that about AoS also.

 torgoch wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The riptide and the Imperial knight are wonderful models, but they should have been blocked from being used in 40k, as it completely unbalanced the game. Maybe Merett had a point?

From what I understand it was more the concern they wouldn't sell. GW were completely taken aback at how many Imperial Knights they sold.

Ah, so it was more a financial issue, rather than a noble attempt to preserve game balance in 40k.

Should have known better


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I believe he was also the one to say that GW.customers' favorite hobby was buying GW products.

He deserved to go for that then, as well.

I don't doubt for a minute that most top companies in the world probably hate their customers as well, but they seem to have the good sense to keep it to themselves...

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I believe he was also the one to say that GW.customers' favorite hobby was buying GW products.

not sure why this always gets touted as such a bad thing...
i've never played a game in 30 years of being in this hobby...
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

the Warhammer worlds (GW products) have given me years of enjoyment, inspired me to become a better painter, provided a way to make money without working a boring job, and made me lifelong friends...
seems like a good thing to me...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

'Cause that's not what he said. He didn't say collecting miniatures. He said buying miniatures.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

'Cause that's not what he said. He didn't say collecting miniatures. He said buying miniatures.

what is the difference???
i buy books and minis, and add them to my collection...
every once in a while, i even get to paint one of those minis, but the books provide no end of inspiration...

what is wrong with buying GW products, if that is what you enjoy???
considering how the minis get better every year, i am one happy customer...
i'll be even happier when those wicked new Deathwatch minis are on my table on Saturday

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

'Cause that's not what he said. He didn't say collecting miniatures. He said buying miniatures.

what is the difference???
i buy books and minis, and add them to my collection...
every once in a while, i even get to paint one of those minis, but the books provide no end of inspiration...

what is wrong with buying GW products, if that is what you enjoy???
considering how the minis get better every year, i am one happy customer...
i'll be even happier when those wicked new Deathwatch minis are on my table on Saturday

cheers
jah

I assume you at least assemble the miniatures and that that is part of collecting? Because buying a product does not include then assembling and painting a product.

@Malus: nope...
i clip them off the sprues, imagining how i would convert, build, and paint them, if i wasn't booked 99% of the time...
then i put them in baggies, box 'em, and bust them out every once in a while to admire the sculpting, and daydream about painting my own ideas, before going back to painting other people's models...

my collection resides in boxes...
my hobby literally is buying models...

i do have ever intention of getting to build and paint them one day before i die, when i am independently wealthy, and don't have to do commisiions anymore...
the upside is, when people are lamenting the long out of print minis that they wish they could get their hands on, like Zoats, Squats, LE models, et al, i can bust out mine and appreciate the sculpts i've collected over the last three decades...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Malus: nope...
i clip them off the sprues, imagining how i would convert, build, and paint them, if i wasn't booked 99% of the time...
then i put them in baggies, box 'em, and bust them out every once in a while to admire the sculpting, and daydream about painting my own ideas, before going back to painting other people's models...

my collection resides in boxes...
my hobby literally is buying models...

i do have ever intention of getting to build and paint them one day before i die, when i am independently wealthy, and don't have to do commisiions anymore...
the upside is, when people are lamenting the long out of print minis that they wish they could get their hands on, like Zoats, Squats, LE models, et al, i can bust out mine and appreciate the sculpts i've collected over the last three decades...

cheers
jah

But again, removing them from their box and looking at them is more than just buying them. You get your enjoyment from examining the aesthetics and thinking about the possibilities, not the act of handing over money for a box of stuff.

 jah-joshua wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

'Cause that's not what he said. He didn't say collecting miniatures. He said buying miniatures.

what is the difference???
i buy books and minis, and add them to my collection...
every once in a while, i even get to paint one of those minis, but the books provide no end of inspiration...

what is wrong with buying GW products, if that is what you enjoy???
considering how the minis get better every year, i am one happy customer...
i'll be even happier when those wicked new Deathwatch minis are on my table on Saturday

cheers
jah

The difference is that when your hobby is collecting something, it doesn't really matter where you get the product. Retail, direct, eBay, Amazon, trade show, con, etc. You just want the mini to put on display. Saying the hobby is buying something implies a more one-way relationship. It's sort of condescending as in "These rubes just live to spend their hard-earned money on our stuff".

 EnTyme wrote:
It's sort of condescending as in "These rubes just live to spend their hard-earned money on our stuff".

And Merett has been suspected of saying something similar, referring to GW Customers as "Goobering"

I'd argue that Jah is the exception and is probably the model customer that Merett envisioned, to wit: "if we make it, they will buy it regardless of quality or price".

People do buy it though, then moan endlessly about it. Less people than there used to be, but still a hefty number.

 zedmeister wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
It's sort of condescending as in "These rubes just live to spend their hard-earned money on our stuff".

And Merett has been suspected of saying something similar, referring to GW Customers as "Goobering"

I'd argue that Jah is the exception and is probably the model customer that Merett envisioned, to wit: "if we make it, they will buy it regardless of quality or price".

i would argue that quality is very important to my decision to add a mini to my collection, thank you very much...
please don't insult me by acting like i don't demand quality...
like i have said many times, i don't own a single Finecast piece, because the material sucks, and i don't own any of the pieces that i think are ugly, like the Razorgore or the Mutilators...

price, on the other hand, doesn't matter at all...
money is only useful to me if it gets me the things i like

i know that the point everyone is trying to make is that GW execs insult their customers, but i have never experienced that in my interactions with GW studio members...
they are GW to me...
i appreciate the work of the artists, sculptors, and writers at GW, and have always had great experiences with them...

like i said, GW products have given me three decades of enjoyment, and keep getting better, in my opinion...
i am ambivalent about Merett leaving, but i'm not shy about saying that i have no problem with the quote that started this little run....
especially since handing over some hard-earned money for the upcoming Deathwatch will give me no end of pleasure, considering i've been waiting 15 years for this release...
the fact that they will end up in baggies next to my Overkill minis, while my actual painting time is taken up with finishing my charity minis for the Clash for a Cure and the Nova Open, doesn't take away from the joy of getting my hands on the new Marines...

to each their own...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
i would argue that quality is very important to my decision to add a mini to my collection, thank you very much...
please don't insult me by acting like i don't demand quality...

That wasn't directed at you at all, no insult was intended. It was an illustration of Merett's mindset when it comes to company sales. Whatever and however you choose to indulged your free time is your business.

To be brutally honest the notion that my hobby is buying GW miniatures isn't at all wrong. I do paint, play, and chat about painting and playing, but the majority of my time is spent planning what to buy next, and then buying it. It's gotten to a point where I'm spending even more time thinking about when, where, and what to buy next because I've noticed I own a ton of stuff that I own for the main purpose of...owning.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I seem to remember that he was a sort of librarian of the lore, not an actual lawyer charged with ensuring the security of the company's output. A literal head of the IP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
For gamers?

This is...great news!

Especially for anyone who likes Genestealers if legend is to be believed!

Given how wild and woolly things have gotten in both 40K and Fantasy in recent years, you kinda wonder if he had the same level of influence there anymore.

If the rumors about him and Genestealer Cults are true, then I'm not sad to see him go (although again, it looks like the decision to revive them was made over any possible objections he had). But it's certainly a big deal when someone with that kind of tenure and history leaves.

Nomeny wrote:
To be brutally honest the notion that my hobby is buying GW miniatures isn't at all wrong. I do paint, play, and chat about painting and playing, but the majority of my time is spent planning what to buy next, and then buying it. It's gotten to a point where I'm spending even more time thinking about when, where, and what to buy next because I've noticed I own a ton of stuff that I own for the main purpose of...owning.

I don't think that mindset is purely a GW thing
About a year ago, I came to the same conclusion and have been liquidating my collection right down and now question my purchases a lot more than I used to. Though I still get a burst of impulse buying occasionally, mainly oldhammer! After a string of ebay rounds, I've managed to free up so much space and my painting pile isn't anywhere near as bad as it used to be. The influx of money has been a rather pleasent experience until the other half spends it

 zedmeister wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i would argue that quality is very important to my decision to add a mini to my collection, thank you very much...
please don't insult me by acting like i don't demand quality...

That wasn't directed at you at all, no insult was intended. It was an illustration of Merett's mindset when it comes to company sales. Whatever and however you choose to indulged your free time is your business.

no worries, mate

didn't take much to convince me to buy the Genestealer Cult
glad Alan got overruled on that one...

cheers
jah

Nomeny wrote:
To be brutally honest the notion that my hobby is buying GW miniatures isn't at all wrong. I do paint, play, and chat about painting and playing, but the majority of my time is spent planning what to buy next, and then buying it. It's gotten to a point where I'm spending even more time thinking about when, where, and what to buy next because I've noticed I own a ton of stuff that I own for the main purpose of...owning.

Many many gamers are the same, but its just unwelcome to a lot of people when they are told "yeah, we love selling you stuff you don't ever really use. Love it. Its our business, in fact"

I'm still looking for something akin to a source on this before I buy it. Granted the guy's been there forever and it's kind of a bummer to see more of the "old guard" leave, but it doesn't sound like he's had the most positive influence on the games or company over the past few years.

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I believe he was also the one to say that GW.customers' favorite hobby was buying GW products.

not sure why this always gets touted as such a bad thing...
i've never played a game in 30 years of being in this hobby...
collecting models and books is my hobby...
what is wrong with that???

the Warhammer worlds (GW products) have given me years of enjoyment, inspired me to become a better painter, provided a way to make money without working a boring job, and made me lifelong friends...
seems like a good thing to me...

cheers
jah

I agree with you, Jah. I don't understand why this gets brought up over and over again as an example of how horrible Merett is. If this forum is anything to go buy, he's completely right. The hobby is buying more and more miniatures. It's especially obviously now. Games Workshop has gone back to making all kinds of games, like Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch: Overkill. And I read posts on here all the time from people who didn't even consider even reading the rules for those games, and just bought them for the fancy new miniatures. They even act like the game is pointless filler, and that it's really just a box full of miniatures. The hobby is, for a lot of people, collecting the miniatures. That's what people enjoy. So why hate the guy for knowing what his customers are like?

Because he believes that the hobby is buying GW miniatures and doing nothing with them. The people buying BaC for the minis are painting and gaming with them. Alan Merrett wouldn't know what "game" meant if you gave him a dictionary.