Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
A lot of hate on Tau.

Funny enough, Tau are proven to not be as powerful as they are perceived, they simply punish players who aren't very good easier than most.

lets not deceive ourselvrs here, against many armies Tau very much do have some EZ mode I win abilities. They arent as capable against the top end Eldar and Superpals army lists so they get knocked out of contention in many instances, but can be stupidly overpowered against armies that rely on armor, AV and cover and that cant play wound allocation gimmicks, no matter how capable the opposing general is.

So they're better than 7.0 codexes and are a 7.5 codex? OH wowwie wow. Also tau aren't great against AV 13-14 and lack a lot of the tools needed to drop big guys (d spam, troops that can tie them down, grav, psychic fun stuff) I'd argue that tau are good but their downsides are often ignored. Tau have a hard time contesting and taking objectives and if they can't table you all the opponent need do is play an objective game. Also most armies hard counter a few others. it's simply how things work. If your playing a vehicle spammy cover requiring list then perhaps tau are the rock to your scissors.

Also I voted SM but I'd personally nuke the wolf wolfs with their wolf lords on big thunder wolfs simply off their campiness and stupid naming conventions alone. The rest of SM are cool, but thunder wolfs just seem to be better than everyone else ever for no reason, are traitorous, and frankly have stupid names and ugly/absurd models. I don't like that they break the rules and get away with it cause' "why not" every time.

I quite like the idea of tau, but would prefer more xenos. I just feel there are too many humans in 40k, especially marines. There should be more alien, not less.
And ffs, space wolves are just ridiculous. Wolfy mcwolf face? feth off.
Super armoured space Vikings, yes. Beardy, mohican wolf bollox, no.

There's a lot. Space Wolves are obnoxious hypocrites, SoB fans are as obnoxious as the CSM fans but at least aren't as important fluffwise, and Tyranids need a complete redesign as some of their weapons are still too humanoid for me.

What Tyranids need is to be less fleshtechy and more fleshy. Less fleshborers, spike rifles and barbed stranglers, more things like fleshborer hives, bio-electric lightning and Ravener ranged weapons.

Their biological thing is unique and cool, but in my opinion they could do with some nuance and personality (think Rachni from Mass Effect).

I'd like to delete Vanilla Marines and the guy who names the Space Wolf units and war gear.

I love the units, Love TWC, love the Wulfen, even love Santa Clawz on his sleigh.

But when TWC are Wolf Guard lead by a Wolf Guard Pack Leader who can be joined by independent characters like Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Lords and Wolf Priests, oh, and they're protected by Wolf Amulets and armed with Wolf Claws...it gets jarring when every second thing is called a Wolf something-or-other, even for a Space Wolves player.

I would delete the Grey Knights donkey-caves, where is their option? I don't want the whole space marines gone.

Why do you have the custodies as a option, they're not even an army, both in fluff and TT. Also the old ones, why are they an option? Farsight Enclave is not a separate codex anymore, they are part of tau, so you can fit them together.

Peregrine wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Tau... Never liked them, never thought they fit properly with the setting.

You must not have read their fluff very carefully.

Or maybe I read it and still didn't like the aesthetic of the army? Someone having a differing opinion than you isn't automatically incompetent you know.

40k is meant to be a gothic representation of the future, at the outset it was basically fantasy in space. You had Knights (Space Marines) Elves (Eldar) Orks (Well Orcs) Squats (Dwarves) Dark Sorcerers (Chaos) and plain old humans (Guard) then later came Necrons (Undead)

Then all of a sudden we have a manga inspired robot army of fish people. The aesthetic is somewhat out of place for me. It's all far too twee for me. I'm not saying the setting shouldn't accept ideas out of the fantasy norm, I mean Nids don't exactly fit that model, but the horror element and grimness of their look makes them fit a lot more easily. As for the Tau I mean I quite like the darker elements of the whole "greater good" thing, as well as their mysterious origins, I just don't like their look, or the way they play on the table top. Sure it can be argued they aren't the cream of the crop on the tournament scene, but in a casual game they put out way too much firepower. Try playing them with Orks, or Nids.

I agree that the game needs more non imperial factions, but I'd much rather see something akin to the Hrud, or even Space Skaven (which is what the Hrud originally were) the Ghoul stars are meant to be full of weird and creepy threats, let's see some of those.

#bringbackthezoats

Dark Eldar. Adds almost nothing to the fluff/lore/story. A group of raiders and pirates who could easily be replaced by normal Eldar corsairs etc.

 General Kroll wrote:

Peregrine wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Tau... Never liked them, never thought they fit properly with the setting.

You must not have read their fluff very carefully.

Or maybe I read it and still didn't like the aesthetic of the army? Someone having a differing opinion than you isn't automatically incompetent you know.

40k is meant to be a gothic representation of the future, at the outset it was basically fantasy in space. You had Knights (Space Marines) Elves (Eldar) Orks (Well Orcs) Squats (Dwarves) Dark Sorcerers (Chaos) and plain old humans (Guard) then later came Necrons (Undead)

Then all of a sudden we have a manga inspired robot army of fish people. The aesthetic is somewhat out of place for me. It's all far too twee for me. I'm not saying the setting shouldn't accept ideas out of the fantasy norm, I mean Nids don't exactly fit that model, but the horror element and grimness of their look makes them fit a lot more easily. As for the Tau I mean I quite like the darker elements of the whole "greater good" thing, as well as their mysterious origins, I just don't like their look, or the way they play on the table top. Sure it can be argued they aren't the cream of the crop on the tournament scene, but in a casual game they put out way too much firepower. Try playing them with Orks, or Nids.

I agree that the game needs more non imperial factions, but I'd much rather see something akin to the Hrud, or even Space Skaven (which is what the Hrud originally were) the Ghoul stars are meant to be full of weird and creepy threats, let's see some of those.

#bringbackthezoats

Annnd They deleted squats, redid necrons and have stated over and over that they don't want 40k to be fantasy in space. They've been trying to move away from this and it's why you'll probably never see Hurd or space dwarfs in the spot light ever again.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Delete a faction? Eh... I mean I don't think factions should be deleted, I think that there should be fluff to support a fractured Imperium, so all your Space Marines/Guard/Sisters/etc. aren't on the same side of good and righteousness but have their own agendas that bring them into conflicts with each other.

I'm pretty sure that's how the galaxy used to be portrayed before all this namby pamby everyone imperial must be friends rubbish.
Part of the inescapable results of the expansion of any race would be the endless infighting that sees imperial factions facing each other on the battlefield.

I'd pretty much delete all the variant marine chapter codices. Space Marines are a fine concept, but having that many books/factions for them is kind of ridiculous. Especially Space Wolves.

Second place goes to Nids. Just never been a fan.

 Elbows wrote:
Dark Eldar. Adds almost nothing to the fluff/lore/story. A group of raiders and pirates who could easily be replaced by normal Eldar corsairs etc.

At one point it felt like they were going to go somewhere with them, but then just never actually did. When they first came out they were the flashy new 3E adversary faction, but then sat in the corner for over a decade doing nothing. Then they got a wonderful reboot, and then have basically just sat in the corner again doing nothing

 Jaxler wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
A lot of hate on Tau.

Funny enough, Tau are proven to not be as powerful as they are perceived, they simply punish players who aren't very good easier than most.

lets not deceive ourselvrs here, against many armies Tau very much do have some EZ mode I win abilities. They arent as capable against the top end Eldar and Superpals army lists so they get knocked out of contention in many instances, but can be stupidly overpowered against armies that rely on armor, AV and cover and that cant play wound allocation gimmicks, no matter how capable the opposing general is.

So they're better than 7.0 codexes and are a 7.5 codex? OH wowwie wow.

Which doesn't make them any less ridiculous when there's only a couple armies that have any sort of clear leg up on them. Basically they'll have hard times against Eldar, some (but by no means all) Space Marines, a narrow range of gimmick Daemon lists, and Decurion Necrons. Outside of that, most Tau armies are going to have a notable advantage over typical opponents all else being equal.

Also tau aren't great against AV 13-14

Since when? You certainly don't see Land Raiders, Predators, Battlewagons, Russ Tanks, etc doing spectacularly well against Tau. They have access to gobs of melta (and Deep Striking/Outflanking Melta at that), formations that auto-hit rear armor with shooting (which bypasses that AV14 except against Land Raiders), S10 AP1 railguns, D missiles on their big GC suits, etc. AV13/14 armor shouldn't be giving Tau all that hard of a time.

and lack a lot of the tools needed to drop big guys (d spam, troops that can tie them down, grav, psychic fun stuff) I'd argue that tau are good but their downsides are often ignored.

They do have downsides, the problem is that they have the firepower, mobility, and resiliency to make them irrelevant in many instances. Half the psychic fun stuff that's really solid Tau can get from Markerlights much better anyway, such as ignoring cover and increasing hit chances.

Tau have a hard time contesting and taking objectives and if they can't table you all the opponent need do is play an objective game.

Compared to Gladius/Formation abuse Space Marines or Eldar, sure. Compared to Dark Eldar, Orks, Grey Knights, Tyranids, Guard, Chaos Marines, Sisters, etc? Tau certainly don't seem to have things any harder on that front than any of those other armies.

Also most armies hard counter a few others. it's simply how things work. If your playing a vehicle spammy cover requiring list then perhaps tau are the rock to your scissors.

The problem there is twofold, in that armies really shouldn't be balanced that way if it can be helped (and there's a whole lot of Tau Rock to a very large number of Scissors armies), and the things Tau are really good at killing are what the majority of armies rely on. If you're reliant on AV, armor saves, or cover (which would encompass Orks, CSM's, GK's, IG, non-TWC SW's, BA's, Sisters, MT, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids) then Tau are going to have an easy time really tearing them up. This might be one thing if Tau were easy to kill back, but when they're increasingly sporting things like Stealth MC's and Riptides and get Skimmer bonuses, they're not really easy to kill.

Orks, there's nothing about them I enjoy.

It would be a low blow to the Ork players, so I wouldn't do it, but for the sake of the thread, I'll choose them without a second though

I don't want to delete much of anything, I'd really like to roll things together into fewer books with more lists among them so you end up with less redundancy, faster updates, and things getting updated at a more consistent rate.

Cut back the number of formations, do more with special detachments that can take units from several factions, and you could probably get it down to nine books or so. Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Small Imperial Armies, Chaos, Eldar, Necrons, Tau, Orks, Tyranids. Trying to stretch the last four to the scale of the first five could shove you into making more varied content for the other alien races, too.

But if you want a short answer cut the Imperial Knights. They look stupid, they're out of scale, they're a blatant violation of Gygax's Law, and they don't interact properly with the fluff at all.

Custodes, no models or rules, why bother mention them at all. Besides, it's the Imperial Fists that truly defend Terra.

SYKOJAK wrote:
Custodes, no models or rules, why bother mention them at all. Besides, it's the Imperial Fists that truly defend Terra.

Their role isn't to defend Terra, it's to defend the physical body of the Emperor. The Emperor just so happens to be on Terra

Daemons. Partly because they offend me on religious grounds, but mostly I just don't want them in my sci-fi. Also, removing daemons may give Tyranids a stronger base to work from, and the chaos legions could possibly be reworked so they are either infected by Tyranid bio-conversion "viruses" or working with these exo-galactic beings, allowing them to be more Cthululian in nature.

 Stormonu wrote:
Daemons. Partly because they offend me on religious grounds, but mostly I just don't want them in my sci-fi. Also, removing daemons may give Tyranids a stronger base to work from, and the chaos legions could possibly be reworked so they are either infected by Tyranid bio-conversion "viruses" or working with these exo-galactic beings, allowing them to be more Cthululian in nature.

So, change the entire premise of the setting because your religion has really bizarre beliefs about fictional demons? No thanks.

I voted for the Custodes. They are functionnaly useless as a faction since their role should and could easily be absorbed by the Grey Knights, the first company of the Imperial Fist or Sisters of Battle. Assassins and inquisitors should also be removed since they don't belong in a warzones, they belong in palace or in dark street corners. As for the others, they deserve more attention and we could seriously use a brand new xenos faction.

Whoever said the Farsight Enclaves... Just know that I am not pleased. Bastards.

I know Necrons are important to the fluff and their beginnings with the Eldar, but I straight up wish they would just die and fade away into their tombs.

I generally wouldn't delete any faction, but if I had to pick one of the options listed, I'd go with Space Marines.

My reasoning is that I'm sick of them getting so much attention and with them gone, everyone else would get more.

Ideally GW would just reduce the amount of time and energy they spend on Space Marines and divert more to other factions though.

I'd get rid of Tau. I hate their playstyle, I hate their look, and I hate their lore.

Death to their xeno butts

I think it'd be interesting with no imperial guard. No humans, suddenly they all get wiped out, and the only survivors are the space marines due to their suits. As billions of lives are snuffed out its down to the 100k or so SM against the universe

It would be interesting to see the IOM go into recruitment overdrive for marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mac wrote:
I would delete the Grey Knights donkey-caves, where is their option? I don't want the whole space marines gone.

Why do you have the custodies as a option, they're not even an army, both in fluff and TT. Also the old ones, why are they an option? Farsight Enclave is not a separate codex anymore, they are part of tau, so you can fit them together.

They were factions I remembered off the top of my head.

Cephalobeard wrote:
A lot of hate on Tau.

Funny enough, Tau are proven to not be as powerful as they are perceived, they simply punish players who aren't very good easier than most.

You make an argument that basically reads "gak people dislike it" which is a pretty gakky emperor's new clothes argument. I agree with you initial sentence though, but the reason is because it's boring as all hell to play against certain Tau builds if they get a few good rolls, to keep them shooting and keep them out of combat. It's just frustrating when the Tau player gets to play the game and all you get to do is move around less pieces every round.

Given how insignificant and outdated their lore is, I'd erase the Old Ones. They've wroked in WFB, but not really in 40K.

hahaha see the majority like myself voted Tau, the fluff just makes me cringe. So lame

 Stormonu wrote:
Daemons. Partly because they offend me on religious grounds, but mostly I just don't want them in my sci-fi. Also, removing daemons may give Tyranids a stronger base to work from, and the chaos legions could possibly be reworked so they are either infected by Tyranid bio-conversion "viruses" or working with these exo-galactic beings, allowing them to be more Cthululian in nature.

Not starting an argument on religion.

Daemons are a weird fit for Sci-Fi, but they do fit the Grimdark. The temptation and ruin from Chaos is rather central; also it is THAT BAD, literal demons are kicking around.

I'm not a fan of Tau and tyranids are ok, I guess, but I would not want to get rid of either. The fact that an empire and/or creatures exist with their own motivations that are not very concerned with the central struggle makes the universe more interesting and believable. Same goes for orks (plus orks are fun, I think any club or group without at least one ork player is missing out).

I would clean up a few things though like the bits and pieces of Imperium all over and do we really need that many books of SM (different flavours are one thing, but several armies) and Eldars (to a lesser extent).

TL;DR: I like that there are things that don't appeal to me, that other people can play.

Sisters of battle definitely.

Stops people whining about wanting new codex and miniatures. Fed up of hearing it now.

Also they have precedence for being disbanded as they consistently break the treaty of mars by withholding military vehicles and weapons from the Mechanicum. Which is treason by the laws they created.

To keep people happy aboit diversity though, release female upgrade sprues for Cadians and other guard regiments.