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 shinros wrote:
Last post on the matter.

I'm sure it is...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 shinros wrote:
If the number of sales is meant to show how popular the game is why was it doing poorly in TT?

Because GW fethed up and made it unappealing to buy.

8th edition simultaneously pissed off a lot of vets and also encouraged larger games at high model prices which made it hard for new players to get in to it. So you neither have the old fans buying in to it because they don't like the rules and potential new fans get put off by the insane price.

In my local group, the Kings of War rules did a better job of selling the starter for Warhammer 8th edition than the rules inside of the box.

The rules for 8th just were not what the group wanted - at all.

The local changeover to KoW started in 8th.

Then GW dropped AoS on an unsuspecting populace - and changed the scale of the minis so that they would not really work that well for KoW.

So folks in my group stopped buying GW miniatures.

GW had managed to make a terrible situation worse.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zywus wrote:

 shinros wrote:
Last post on the matter.

I'm sure it is...

Sarcasm senses... tingling.

The Auld Grump

@shinros

The reason people are buying TW: W, and not the new AOS stuff is because they don't care about the Mortal Realms, and the WFB world appeals to them. How this sends a message to GW is that if the sales of AOS stuff is slipping and they see revenue coming in from WFB stuff, even video games, it sends a clear message of what the gaming populace actually wants. Now whether they go with that or not is a different thing entirely. From what I understand they are more focused on IP protection and copyright/trademarking stuff. This means they are probably committed to AOS for at least another year. If it continues to sell as well as it does currently, then SOMETHING will have to be done. For GW's sake, I hope all their competitors don't eat up the market before that change comes.

 Just Tony wrote:
@shinros

The reason people are buying TW: W, and not the new AOS stuff is because they don't care about the Mortal Realms, and the WFB world appeals to them. How this sends a message to GW is that if the sales of AOS stuff is slipping and they see revenue coming in from WFB stuff, even video games, it sends a clear message of what the gaming populace actually wants. Now whether they go with that or not is a different thing entirely. From what I understand they are more focused on IP protection and copyright/trademarking stuff. This means they are probably committed to AOS for at least another year. If it continues to sell as well as it does currently, then SOMETHING will have to be done. For GW's sake, I hope all their competitors don't eat up the market before that change comes.

Very much this!

 shinros wrote:
Yes and GW are taking your money and pretty much laughing at you.

From the way they acted in the chapterhouse case and from how ex-employees say they view their customers, they're laughing at all of their customers. Even the 'loyal' ones. Because they hate you and only want what's in your wallet.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/pb.1575682476085719.-2207520000.1473643454./1681632458824053/?type=3&theater

Things like this is what hurts Games Workshop.. Here are two new plastic Terminator lords.. My sister in law lives in Malaysia and asked her to check in
on getting the Chaplin terminator for me.. She went to the new Warhammer store was told they could not be purchase until after 10 stamps are collected.
Of course stamps where linked to in store purchases. So kind of a bait and switch with no mention of this in the ad for them..

Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

Right after Wyrd implemented their reward program where you simply get given tokens to get an LE model after attending official events, more if you win the event.

I just... right when GW start looking like they're trying to right the ship.

 -Loki- wrote:
Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

Right after Wyrd implemented their reward program where you simply get given tokens to get an LE model after attending official events, more if you win the event.

I just... right when GW start looking like they're trying to right the ship.

Yeah I think it shows desperation on their part.

hobojebus wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

Right after Wyrd implemented their reward program where you simply get given tokens to get an LE model after attending official events, more if you win the event.

I just... right when GW start looking like they're trying to right the ship.

Yeah I think it shows desperation on their part.

Not sure what the point of it is - stuff like this just brings bad press. All it does is highlight the value of real deals offered by other companies.

 -Loki- wrote:
Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

And the models are currently available in a single store in Malaysia

Brilliant isn't it?

niall78 wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

Right after Wyrd implemented their reward program where you simply get given tokens to get an LE model after attending official events, more if you win the event.

I just... right when GW start looking like they're trying to right the ship.

Yeah I think it shows desperation on their part.

Not sure what the point of it is - stuff like this just brings bad press. All it does is highlight the value of real deals offered by other companies.

Back when I was a kid, when a new GW opened they had a sale where you could buy 3 kits for the price of 2.

Now when a GW opens they release a limited model that you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to have the opportunity to purchase the limited model.

But people by GW LE models as quickly as they are produced.

It's a bit of unsavoury practice sure; but why give away what people will pay for?

I miss the old sale too (actually I miss the old model rages more) but it really isn't hard to get a 3rd off a GW kit. Back when GW did those sales there wasn't really a network of 3rd party discount sellers. That deal is a bit redundant when the people that will by (and queue) at a new GW shop will be happy paying RRP anyway. Give them something unique (that they will pay for) and it may well attract just as many customers.

It seems counter intuitive but allot of GW practice is, so clearly they believe it works for them.

 notprop wrote:
But people by GW LE models as quickly as they are produced.

To an extent yes. But these latest ones are so obscure that it's almost not possible to get hold of them, so GW isn't seeing much money from that.

It cost GW the same to create a Hard Plastic mold whether they sell three models or three thousand of it. (although I've heads tales of cheaper aluminum molds that's cheaper to make but can make a limited number of HIPS models before they degrade).

 notprop wrote:
But people by GW LE models as quickly as they are produced.

It's a bit of unsavoury practice sure; but why give away what people will pay for?

I don't think there's a problem with charging for the LE model.

Having a reward system to allow you to buy that LE model and you can only get it from a store opening falls right in to the category of "Why do so many players demonize GW?"

I miss the old sale too (actually I miss the old model rages more) but it really isn't hard to get a 3rd off a GW kit. Back when GW did those sales there wasn't really a network of 3rd party discount sellers. That deal is a bit redundant when the people that will by (and queue) at a new GW shop will be happy paying RRP anyway. Give them something unique (that they will pay for) and it may well attract just as many customers.

Because if you have sales in your own shops you pull customers who would otherwise buy from 3rd parties to buying from direct sources, direct sources have higher profit margins.

It also gets more people through the door and acts as advertising. Back when the store near me opened and they had a sale, there was a queue out the door for the whole day, it disrupted the shopping centre the store was located in which is a good thing.

Also where do you get GW stuff a 3rd off? There's a few places that sell 20-25%, most places are more like the 10-15% range.

It seems counter intuitive but allot of GW practice is, so clearly they believe it works for them.

Just because they believe it works for them doesn't make it a good idea.

 notprop wrote:
But people by GW LE models as quickly as they are produced.

It's a bit of unsavoury practice sure; but why give away what people will pay for?

Ignoring the fact that they also (or at least, back when I played) produced them in incredibly small numbers means they sell fast. For all people like to say there's less people buying GW products, they're still the biggest fish in the pond, and those still buying are the people who don't care about the pricing, or they'd have stopped. Producing 1000 LE books to sell to devoted players with too much money is a very small amount which is guaranteed to sell out very, very quickly.

What baffles me is that they're offering the chance to purchase LE models as a reward, rather than offering LE models as a reward. Maybe I'm spoiled? I play Malifaux and Infinity now. Both of those give ample chance to get LE figures from pre-orders, rewards to buying product during sales, in tournament and league packs, and so on. They don't offer the chance to pay more money again on top of that from select store openings for the LE models. Hell, every second month Wyrd gives people LE models simply for spending $60 at your FLGS, and every other month sticks an LE model every box for one of their new products.

-Loki-'s on the money here. GW's way of selling these minis is baffling. So many obstacles to buy a couple of Terminator minis?

Just let me buy them. I'll give money right now to GW for those minis. No muss, no fuss. Just let me buy them. Why is that so difficult? I've been playing this game 20 or so years, so I don't need to purchase things to get skulls, or participate in store run events to get skulls, or whatever the silly promotion is.

Instead, like a lot of adults, I have money, and I'd like to use it.

Not really, they want you to buy from their stores not scabs.

You buy from the store you get access to models only loyal customers do. It encourages people to buy from that store models they would/should buy from there anyways.

They need to pay the rent and have a face inorder to get new players. They cant have a bunch of stores with no one entering. Encouragment to come into the store and buy stuff is a great idea.

Never said I wasn't happy to go into a store to buy it, just that I want to buy it, not jump through hoops to buy it.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not really, they want you to buy from their stores not scabs.

You buy from the store you get access to models only loyal customers do. It encourages people to buy from that store models they would/should buy from there anyways.

They need to pay the rent and have a face inorder to get new players. They cant have a bunch of stores with no one entering. Encouragment to come into the store and buy stuff is a great idea.

And again we come back to the title of this thread....

"Why do so many players demonize GW?"

You can justify GW doing these things, but these are the reasons GW gets canned on internet forums, games stores and games clubs, it's because they aren't good about hiding the fact all they care about is money.

Obviously all companies care about money, GW are just really terrible at letting customers know that's all they care about and it drives a wedge between them and their customers. It's a problem when you walk in to an independent retailer (which is where most of GW's revenue comes from) and hear people complaining about how GW have become a gakky company because they only care about money and their games and practices reflect it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not really, they want you to buy from their stores not scabs.

You buy from the store you get access to models only loyal customers do. It encourages people to buy from that store models they would/should buy from there anyways.

They need to pay the rent and have a face inorder to get new players. They cant have a bunch of stores with no one entering. Encouragment to come into the store and buy stuff is a great idea.

And again we come back to the title of this thread....

"Why do so many players demonize GW?"

You can justify GW doing these things, but these are the reasons GW gets canned on internet forums, games stores and games clubs, it's because they aren't good about hiding the fact all they care about is money.

Obviously all companies care about money, GW are just really terrible at letting customers know that's all they care about and it drives a wedge between them and their customers. It's a problem when you walk in to an independent retailer (which is where most of GW's revenue comes from) and hear people complaining about how GW have become a gakky company because they only care about money and their games and practices reflect it.

I actually get they care more then most. Hell apple release apps only for their devices.... a money grab. I had a broken ipad and it took me 3 weeks to get a replacement and countless phone calls saying I opened it and broke it just to get a free be or some crap.

Xbox makes games that are ONLY for xbox1 and I cant play them on a xbox360, so they expect me to ditch it and get a new one.

They are all money hungery, they are not your friends they make a product and want to sell it. Once you buy it I can almost promise you they dont care what you do with it.

They dont get a free pass because people like to show up other people and talk crap. Thats why all games have a leaderboard and a forum where you get to shoot off. GW removed the ability to shoot off to others, but opened a facepage thing so you can show off your stuff and rules to have in house tornies.

People complain about GW as much as people complain about any other companys. Hell go to hots forum 99 pages of kids bit..... You know.

Also those who complain tend to never shut up and tell everyone even tho no one cares why they are mad. well the content will simply be happy with what they bought

Sorry, if a company accuses you of trying to scam them when you attempt to take advantage of the warranty they promised you, you should complain. Even if the rest of your post seems to be an incoherent denigration of those who complain.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Sorry, if a company accuses you of trying to scam them when you attempt to take advantage of the warranty they promised you, you should complain. Even if the rest of your post seems to be an incoherent denigration of those who complain.

Ya sorry trying to write on a tablet. It lets me type 3 words every 20 seconds, so by the time I get threw a paragraph there is missing letters and such I need to fix. So by the time I get threw the fixes I lost my train of thought and almost start a new topic.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The local changeover to KoW started in 8th.

Then GW dropped AoS on an unsuspecting populace - and changed the scale of the minis so that they would not really work that well for KoW.

So folks in my group stopped buying GW miniatures.

GW had managed to make a terrible situation worse.

The Auld Grump

I doubt this is such a "terrible situation" for GW given how small KoW's player base is.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I actually get they care more then most. Hell apple release apps only for their devices.... a money grab. I had a broken ipad and it took me 3 weeks to get a replacement and countless phone calls saying I opened it and broke it just to get a free be or some crap.

That's something you should most definitely complain about.

Xbox makes games that are ONLY for xbox1 and I cant play them on a xbox360, so they expect me to ditch it and get a new one.

Huh? Gaming technology moves forward, complaining that your out of date console doesn't play newer games is stupid.

The rest of your post is kind of incoherent and I don't really understand the point you are trying to make.

I specifically said that obviously all companies care about money, GW just does a piss poor job of making sure customers know that and it hurts their relationship with customers.

Hurting your relationship with customers directly impacts how much money you can make off them because unhappy customers tend to spend less, so as much as your company might be money hungry, it's usually best to appear to your customers about caring about something more than money.... like the quality of the product you're selling or making customers happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

motski wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The local changeover to KoW started in 8th.

Then GW dropped AoS on an unsuspecting populace - and changed the scale of the minis so that they would not really work that well for KoW.

So folks in my group stopped buying GW miniatures.

GW had managed to make a terrible situation worse.

The Auld Grump

I doubt this is such a "terrible situation" for GW given how small KoW's player base is.

If anything GW want KoW to have a big player base because a lot of people buy old WHFB models to play KoW. They aren't in direct competition anymore.

We'll end this little tangent here then yes ?

Thank you.

Past 6 months or so i've really enjoyed what GW has done to be honest.

From the start collecting boxes to other various valued kits as well as the revival of white dwarf I'm pretty happy.

 reds8n wrote:
We'll end this little tangent here then yes ?

Thank you.

Sorry, honest question, I didn't quite catch, what tangent do we have to end? Other than the first post, the current page seemed to be reasonably on topic, it was the previous page that probably could have used some moderation

So it is true what they said in the court case then. The hobby is people buying GW product. "Here is your reward for buying from us, you can buy more now."

Of course it's true. People just got the hump because they didn't like seeing expressed so bluntly.

 -Loki- wrote:
Wait, so they essentially did a Skullz program where the reward was being able to buy more stuff rather than getting free stuff?

Wow.

Right after Wyrd implemented their reward program where you simply get given tokens to get an LE model after attending official events, more if you win the event.

I just... right when GW start looking like they're trying to right the ship.

Remember, buying GW miniatures is your favorite thing to do!

Spend money and they will allow you to buy more!

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

motski wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The local changeover to KoW started in 8th.

Then GW dropped AoS on an unsuspecting populace - and changed the scale of the minis so that they would not really work that well for KoW.

So folks in my group stopped buying GW miniatures.

GW had managed to make a terrible situation worse.

The Auld Grump

I doubt this is such a "terrible situation" for GW given how small KoW's player base is.

Locally, the group playing KoW is small - yet it is still larger than the number playing AoS - so, yeah....

Being smaller than KoW's local base is a worse thing.

The Auld Grump - 9th Age is also being played more than AoS....