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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/26 18:20:25
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Leaders
Huskard on Thundertusk (340)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master
- Artefact: The Pelt of Charngar
Units
Icefall Yhetees x 6 (240) - May split to 2x3
Mournfang Pack x 4 (400) - May split to 2x2
Behemoths (all Battleline!)
Thundertusk Beastriders (320)
Thundertusk Beastriders (320)
Thundertusk Beastriders (320)
Batallions
Torrbad (60)
Total: 2000/2000
No joke, this is a dream come true. 14 models at 2000pt!
That being said... how does it look? The idea of four critters rolling up and throwing out 6 mortal wounds on a 2+ at 18" is just rude. Winter's Endurance popping off a lot means harder to kill models (plus the Pelt). If I run the Thundertusks close, triggering Heart-numbing Chill should be a regular deal (2+ basically with a 4+ being d6). Numbing chill is just gravy, making my TTs harder to hit, same for Aura of Frost on the Yhetees, who get to run & charge if within 16" of one of my four (lol) TT units. The Mournfang are going in with Hackers, because 2" range and the -1 Rend seem better than just the one extra attack without those perks. Debating on breaking it into two units of two though, just to get another Skalg with a Pistol, because those are solid. Horns and Banners for sure - better charge rolls and the Battleshock re-roll, plus the hilarious chance to make another model flee within 6". Oh yea, and they have that gross 4+ mortal wound charge perk, meaning this army just throws mortal wounds around all day!
Thoughts? Ideas?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/26 19:17:41
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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What is the goal of this list? Is it supposed to be very competitive, casual, etc? Because in a strictly casual setting this is very cheesy (TFG even) while in a strictly competitive setting... well you could make it even more terrifying.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/26 19:33:39
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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...go on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/26 20:03:53
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Frostlord on Thundertusk - General, has the Red Pelt artifact which heals him 1 wound (or d3 on a 4+) every round.
Three Huskards on Thundertusk - Each of these guys can use their ability to heal d3 wounds on a model in range every hero phase, they have to roll a 4+ but get +1 for every other Thundertusk in range, meaning you keep the above together and this roll can't fail.
So now your general heals 1/d3 in your hero phase, and you have 3d3 healing that you can toss to whichever model(s) need it. And while they are at full wounds each on those Thundertusks is tossing out 6 mortal wounds on a 2+ in your shooting phase.
Your battleline are three units of 3 yhetees, made battleline by the Frostlord on Thundertusk general. Why Yhetees? They are the most efficient battleline option for the points, and can do all sorts of shenanigans like running to get within 6" of an enemy then piling in to make close combat attacks without ever actually charging. Or retreating around an enemy to get behind their lines, then piling in and attacking as above.
Finally, an Icebrow hunter rounds of the list to come in from behind and kill off artillery or seize/contest objectives.
Now with objectives generally being secured based off model count this list will have trouble there, but its simply going to blast the opposition off the field and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/26 20:04:31
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/27 09:20:07
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Mutating Changebringer
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Frostlord on Thundertusk - General, has the Red Pelt artifact which heals him 1 wound (or d3 on a 4+) every round.
Three Huskards on Thundertusk - Each of these guys can use their ability to heal d3 wounds on a model in range every hero phase, they have to roll a 4+ but get +1 for every other Thundertusk in range, meaning you keep the above together and this roll can't fail.
So now your general heals 1/d3 in your hero phase, and you have 3d3 healing that you can toss to whichever model(s) need it. And while they are at full wounds each on those Thundertusks is tossing out 6 mortal wounds on a 2+ in your shooting phase.
Your battleline are three units of 3 yhetees, made battleline by the Frostlord on Thundertusk general. Why Yhetees? They are the most efficient battleline option for the points, and can do all sorts of shenanigans like running to get within 6" of an enemy then piling in to make close combat attacks without ever actually charging. Or retreating around an enemy to get behind their lines, then piling in and attacking as above.
Finally, an Icebrow hunter rounds of the list to come in from behind and kill off artillery or seize/contest objectives.
Now with objectives generally being secured based off model count this list will have trouble there, but its simply going to blast the opposition off the field and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it.
Well now I know what faction I'll never be playing a game against. That's just ridiculously OP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/27 09:47:09
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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DeffDred wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:Frostlord on Thundertusk - General, has the Red Pelt artifact which heals him 1 wound (or d3 on a 4+) every round.
Three Huskards on Thundertusk - Each of these guys can use their ability to heal d3 wounds on a model in range every hero phase, they have to roll a 4+ but get +1 for every other Thundertusk in range, meaning you keep the above together and this roll can't fail.
So now your general heals 1/d3 in your hero phase, and you have 3d3 healing that you can toss to whichever model(s) need it. And while they are at full wounds each on those Thundertusks is tossing out 6 mortal wounds on a 2+ in your shooting phase.
Your battleline are three units of 3 yhetees, made battleline by the Frostlord on Thundertusk general. Why Yhetees? They are the most efficient battleline option for the points, and can do all sorts of shenanigans like running to get within 6" of an enemy then piling in to make close combat attacks without ever actually charging. Or retreating around an enemy to get behind their lines, then piling in and attacking as above.
Finally, an Icebrow hunter rounds of the list to come in from behind and kill off artillery or seize/contest objectives.
Now with objectives generally being secured based off model count this list will have trouble there, but its simply going to blast the opposition off the field and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it.
Well now I know what faction I'll never be playing a game against. That's just ridiculously OP.
TBF I have a knack for rules and interactions, and I pride myself on being able to construct the most broken lists possible (despite rarely playing them for obvious reasons), and this is the worst possible list I have come up with for AoS with any faction. Or in other words; this is probably the worst it gets and should not be taken as representative.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/28 14:45:07
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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There wouldn't happen to be anything similar only at 1000 points?
NinthMusketeer wrote:Frostlord on Thundertusk - General, has the Red Pelt artifact which heals him 1 wound (or d3 on a 4+) every round.
Three Huskards on Thundertusk - Each of these guys can use their ability to heal d3 wounds on a model in range every hero phase, they have to roll a 4+ but get +1 for every other Thundertusk in range, meaning you keep the above together and this roll can't fail.
So now your general heals 1/d3 in your hero phase, and you have 3d3 healing that you can toss to whichever model(s) need it. And while they are at full wounds each on those Thundertusks is tossing out 6 mortal wounds on a 2+ in your shooting phase.
Your battleline are three units of 3 yhetees, made battleline by the Frostlord on Thundertusk general. Why Yhetees? They are the most efficient battleline option for the points, and can do all sorts of shenanigans like running to get within 6" of an enemy then piling in to make close combat attacks without ever actually charging. Or retreating around an enemy to get behind their lines, then piling in and attacking as above.
Finally, an Icebrow hunter rounds of the list to come in from behind and kill off artillery or seize/contest objectives.
Now with objectives generally being secured based off model count this list will have trouble there, but its simply going to blast the opposition off the field and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/28 16:19:24
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Well, given the low model count of this army and the ease of building, I am not very tempted. Would be a great chance to test my sculpting skills to make each character unique looking. And it would be nasty in tourneys, if things get serious. I always have my KBB if I want to play nice!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/28 20:37:55
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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There isn't really a 1000 point equivalent to that list, the best version you could do would be a frostlord, a beastrider thundertusk, and a unit of yhetees.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/31 16:38:10
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Been Around the Block
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I mean, yeah... it's very strong.
I simply don't get who gave the points to these units.
I get the new battletomes are better, but these guys are pretty goofy balance-wise.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/31 17:16:18
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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DoggieDoo wrote:I mean, yeah... it's very strong.
I simply don't get who gave the points to these units.
I get the new battletomes are better, but these guys are pretty goofy balance-wise.
Not if the mission requires at least 5 people to occupy an objective. Other armies will just play keep-away and go take other objectives. You have to make it to 18" in good shape to bring the max pain, which won't happen always, even with the healing factor akin to Wolverine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/31 18:49:08
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity
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em_en_oh_pee wrote:DoggieDoo wrote:I mean, yeah... it's very strong.
I simply don't get who gave the points to these units.
I get the new battletomes are better, but these guys are pretty goofy balance-wise.
Not if the mission requires at least 5 people to occupy an objective. Other armies will just play keep-away and go take other objectives. You have to make it to 18" in good shape to bring the max pain, which won't happen always, even with the healing factor akin to Wolverine. 
Agreed. I think people forget that Matched Play has specific missions and isn't just a free for all. Most of those mission (all?) reward victory points for holding objectives. Some of those objectives require multiple models to be able to hold while others just require one. Adding a high movement, flying single model unit as an "objective holder" is worthless in certain missions.
I'm playing in a three round tournament on the 17th of this month. I have to use the same list, but for three different missions. I won't be able to hold objectives in the same way in the various missions.
In terms of the Thundertusks and Stonehorns? My 1,000 point list has 10 Ellyrian Reavers, amongst other things. I'll be able to move to just within 16" (the range of my bows), make 30 shots with a 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and then move 2D6" away from you as part of my special rules. That's going to cause around 4 unsaved wounds to a Thundertusk. Sure, that doesn't kill it, but I can do this over and over again as you try to get close enough to hurt me. Three rounds later and your model is dead, while I'm at full strength. My point is that for any OMG OP unit in the game, there is another unit that can take it down almost 100% of the time. Multiple Thundertusks can be hard to deal with, but not impossible.
I'm also thinking about a Spiderfang Grots list. Stack their two Leader abilities and the Spiders that the Goblins ride get 2 attacks each with a 1/3 chance to cause 2 mortal wounds. On average, 9 spiders will cause 12 mortal wounds to a Thundertusk in one combat. That's not including all the regular wounds they'll deal from the actual Goblins and non mortal Spider wounds.
Just saying, there are plenty of ways of dealing with big monsters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/31 23:22:54
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Thunder/Horns aren't nearly as bad at 1000 points though simply because they can't be spammed without killing your model count. Also, your Ellyrian Reaver tactic is easily countered by the Beastclaw player using destruction allegiance for the extra 1d6" move, and even without that is still banking that there's no double turn or result of 2 on the everwinter chart. Its far from 100%.
[edit] To clarify; I feel like the described strategy is a good one and an excellent example of how a Thundertusk can be dealt with in a more normal (not min-maxxed) game. However, I feel like saying it is almost 100% guaranteed to work is misleading.
In larger games model count isn't as much of a problem (note my list above with 3 units of 3 Yhetees). The scenarios that require 5+ models to take an objective also require no enemy models in range, so camping a thundertusk on one will prevent your enemy from taking it, and if you finish all 5 round with no winner it goes to points killed... where the beastclaws tend to do very well.
Yes there are ways to deal with it, but we come back to players tailoring lists to beat a specific thing which is a pretty big indicator that it's OP.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 23:59:17
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/02 08:49:11
Subject: [2000] - Beastclaw Raiders - Thunder-thunder-thundertusks HOOOOO!
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Terrifying Wraith
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Kriswall wrote: em_en_oh_pee wrote:DoggieDoo wrote:I mean, yeah... it's very strong.
I simply don't get who gave the points to these units.
I get the new battletomes are better, but these guys are pretty goofy balance-wise.
Not if the mission requires at least 5 people to occupy an objective. Other armies will just play keep-away and go take other objectives. You have to make it to 18" in good shape to bring the max pain, which won't happen always, even with the healing factor akin to Wolverine. 
Agreed. I think people forget that Matched Play has specific missions and isn't just a free for all. Most of those mission (all?) reward victory points for holding objectives. Some of those objectives require multiple models to be able to hold while others just require one. Adding a high movement, flying single model unit as an "objective holder" is worthless in certain missions.
I'm playing in a three round tournament on the 17th of this month. I have to use the same list, but for three different missions. I won't be able to hold objectives in the same way in the various missions.
In terms of the Thundertusks and Stonehorns? My 1,000 point list has 10 Ellyrian Reavers, amongst other things. I'll be able to move to just within 16" (the range of my bows), make 30 shots with a 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and then move 2D6" away from you as part of my special rules. That's going to cause around 4 unsaved wounds to a Thundertusk. Sure, that doesn't kill it, but I can do this over and over again as you try to get close enough to hurt me. Three rounds later and your model is dead, while I'm at full strength. My point is that for any OMG OP unit in the game, there is another unit that can take it down almost 100% of the time. Multiple Thundertusks can be hard to deal with, but not impossible.
I'm also thinking about a Spiderfang Grots list. Stack their two Leader abilities and the Spiders that the Goblins ride get 2 attacks each with a 1/3 chance to cause 2 mortal wounds. On average, 9 spiders will cause 12 mortal wounds to a Thundertusk in one combat. That's not including all the regular wounds they'll deal from the actual Goblins and non mortal Spider wounds.
Just saying, there are plenty of ways of dealing with big monsters.
It would actually be 1/6 of the time doing two mortal wounds as you're at minus 1 to hit against them in combat
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