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Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





I know there are already rules in 40k for orbital bombardments. Shouldn't there be rules just like that for general artillery?

Imagine in an artillery unit's profile there's an option where you can pay to upgrade it to both stay in and fire from reserves, or even just an entirely seperate entry for artillery bombardments. They could be less accurate and more expensive, but every turn, basically a cross between what artillery is now and an orbital bombardment. What do you think?
   
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The Guard have an HQ choice that does this. I'd suggest tying it to an artillery spotter unit of some sort to avoid giving people free shots that can't be interacted with or gotten rid of.

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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Hmmm...would you even need the model? If so, GW would not likely approve.

As for playing against it, it's kind of bs that the unit has effectively a 1++ save. It would have to be VERY expensive to justify that.
   
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There's nothing less fun to play against than something that hits you and has no way of being hit back.

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Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 curran12 wrote:
There's nothing less fun to play against than something that hits you and has no way of being hit back.


Hence spotter models necessary to make the attack with.

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Made in us
Norn Queen






Once there is a spotter model it's not really off board artillery. It's exactly the same as a model that has orbital bombardments. Or any other kind of attack. You have a model with a special gun to make an attack. Fluff wise saying the attack comes from off board makes little to no difference.

I don't mind a spotter model that can call in strikes.

I do mind something that just shoots off board and has nothing for the enemy to attack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 04:50:18



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







If it was done like the Orbital Strikes from the old Codex: Witch Hunters and Codex: Daemon Hunters it could work.

Basically they're forced to target a piece of terrain (or maybe change it to a point on the board indicated by a marker) secretly chosen at the start of the game and you have to roll every turn to see if it happens (via Reserve rolls).

That way even though the enemy can't destroy the bombardment they can easily avoid it.
   
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





With spotters, I'd be ok with it, as long as the spotters have a relatively short range.

It would actually be cool if there were 3 spotters, and each one dead, fleeing or out of line of sight to target would decrease BS.

Probably just an IG thing, though.
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Slightly off topic, but sortta on, SM at one point had a cool formation that effectively did this.

It was 3 WW and a land speeder. Land speeder was the spotter and made it so your WW acted like they had LoS so less scatter.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
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The Dog-house

 curran12 wrote:
There's nothing less fun to play against than something that hits you and has no way of being hit back.


Sounds like Tau

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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 curran12 wrote:
There's nothing less fun to play against than something that hits you and has no way of being hit back.


I play against Eldar quite a bit, so there's that.
   
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I'm working on something similar, this is what I'm doing for right now:
0 - Unit goes into Ongoing Reserves
1 - If no spotter in 12", deviate 3D6 only land on target on a Hit!
2 - Flyers (or other units in Ongoing Reserves) in ongoing reserves can make attacks against the Artillery unit as if 12" away. Bombing the target misses if it scatters 3" or more.
3 - If the artillery is in Reserves at the end of the game, it counts as destroyed

It never ends well 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
If it was done like the Orbital Strikes from the old Codex: Witch Hunters and Codex: Daemon Hunters it could work.

Basically they're forced to target a piece of terrain (or maybe change it to a point on the board indicated by a marker) secretly chosen at the start of the game and you have to roll every turn to see if it happens (via Reserve rolls).

That way even though the enemy can't destroy the bombardment they can easily avoid it.


This was the first thing that came to my mind as well. While I'm normally inclined to agree with the idea that you should be able to interact with/shut down a piece of enemy offense, I don't really mind the idea of having some reasonable, inaccurate off-screen artillery pieces lobbing shells upon the battlefield. You gain the advantage of getting a few shots off that your opponent can't shut down by killing the source of the shooting, but I think this is/can be mitigated by not having a scoring unit, having the off-screen shots be less accurate, having the off-screen shots be less reliable, etc.

You could even make a few variations on the idea to reflect different factions. Acid bombs for 'nids. Haywire bombs for eldar or tau. That sort of thing. How would everyone feel about something along the lines of the following?

LONG-RANGED BARRAGE (Heavy Support)
Composition and Cost:
1 to 3 volleys at 40(?) points per volley.
Special Rules:
* Despite being a heavy support choose, a long-ranged barrage is not considered a unit and is not represented by any model or piece of terrain on the tabletop. As a result, a long-ranged volley can never give up a kill point for being removed as a casualty.
* For each Long Ranged Barrage taken in your army, roll a reserve roll as though the long-ranged barrage were a unit waiting to come in from reserves.
* For each long-ranged barrage that passes its reserve roll, place a large blast marker anywhere on the table. The blast scatters 3d6". The distance scattered is not reduced by any amount, and the blast scatters even if a Bulls Eye is rolled on the scatter die (scatter in the direction of the bold arrow on the Bull's Eye).
* Each model hit by the blast takes a strength 7 AP 4 hit with the Barrage and Ordnance rules.
* Because such far-ranging shots give those struck by them time to react, Look Out Sir! tests made against wounds caused by a long-ranged barrage pass automatically.
* A given long-ranged barrage may "arrive from reserves" a number of times equal to the number of volleys purchased. Only a single volley may arrive per long-ranged barrage each turn. Unused volleys do not automatically come into play on turn 5. Continue to roll reserve rolls for volleys throughout the duration of the game(even into turns 5, 6, and 7). Any volleys that do not come into play by the end of the game are wasted.

So basically, your shots come from reserves. You get up to one shot per turn per heavy support slot that you fill with long-ranged fire support. When a given heavy support slot runs out of volleys, you're out of shots. Your opponent can't really do anything about the shots coming in (other than to spread out, etc.), but the shots coming in are extremely inaccurate (averaging an 11" scatter with no chance of not scattering). The guy taking the off-screen fire support gets no scoring unit out of it, and the points he spent on those shots essentially vanish once the guns run dry.

I don't know. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Is the lack of ability to kill a "spotter" or what have you really too disruptive given the proposed drawbacks I've presented above? Obviously you could adjust the strength/AP/special rules/points cost as necessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 20:00:03



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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RogueSangre





The Cockatrice Malediction

In general artillery should never appear on a 40k battlefield unless something has gone horribly wrong for the side
fielding it. It's a matter of scale. Artillery simply does not work at the ranges depicted on the tabletop. All artillery should be off-board. And don't even get me started on Deathstrikes (skirmish ICBMs? Really?).

Much like flyers, artillery should not appear on the table. If you have it, it should be able to affect the events on the table but shouldn't be physically present. Unfortunately that doesn't sell artillery models. So ideally what they should do is create a supplement with rules for artillery. You would be able to keep your artillery models in reserve and launch artillery barrages at the battlefield. But enemy infiltrators would be able to get to your rear echelons and destroy your artillery. Maybe even introduce optional rules for sideboards or multiple synced battlefields so you could fight it out in the backfield simultaneously with the battle on the front lines. They could call the supplement "Death from the Grounds".

   
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Krazed Killa Kan






 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
In general artillery should never appear on a 40k battlefield unless something has gone horribly wrong for the side
fielding it. It's a matter of scale. Artillery simply does not work at the ranges depicted on the tabletop. All artillery should be off-board. And don't even get me started on Deathstrikes (skirmish ICBMs? Really?).

Much like flyers, artillery should not appear on the table. If you have it, it should be able to affect the events on the table but shouldn't be physically present. Unfortunately that doesn't sell artillery models. So ideally what they should do is create a supplement with rules for artillery. You would be able to keep your artillery models in reserve and launch artillery barrages at the battlefield. But enemy infiltrators would be able to get to your rear echelons and destroy your artillery. Maybe even introduce optional rules for sideboards or multiple synced battlefields so you could fight it out in the backfield simultaneously with the battle on the front lines. They could call the supplement "Death from the Grounds".



Would love to try a 2v2 type mission where Player 1 is controlling some neutral artillery with a couple of infantry units to defend/man them on one table while his partner Player 2 is attempting to capture an objective on table two. Player 3 is defending that objective while Player 4 uses mostly deep strike, infiltrators, and outflanking units to attack the artillery position. The artillery can only fire onto the other table and whoever is controlling them uncontested can fire the artillery. You could actually use Kill Team type rules for the artillery board if you really wanted to.

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California

I'd say just rip the rules from Bolt Action. They have cheat sheets out online everywhere that you can find for free, but I can explain the Gist of it. You pay a relatively high price (100 points or so) for a single Spotter model that has the equivalent BA rule for Infiltrate. At any time instead of making a shooting attack with him you place an artillery marker on the board anywhere within his line of sight (on the ground, doesn't target a unit) and after that he's just another Joe with a rifle.

For the barrage itself, roll a die at the beginning of every of your turns. On a 1 it's a misfire; your opponent moves the marker anywhere within 24" and resolves the attack. 2-3 is a delayed attack, you get to move the marker 12" and try again next turn. 4-6 is fire for effect, and you resolve it wherever the marker is right then.

To resolve it, roll 2d6; that's the radius of the attack and it hits everyone within that many inches of the marker. Finally, roll another die for every unit in the radius. I don't remember this table off the top of my head, but I believe a 1 is a full miss (nothing happens), 2-3 is a near miss which is normally a few pin markers but that could be -2Ld for a turn in 40k. 4-5 I think is something like "I can't take it anymore!" and it inflicts way more pin markers (Pinning test at -2Ld for 40k), and on a 6 you get hit by a heavy howitzer. Probably just do 2d6 hits on every unit with the Basilisk profile (S9AP3) with cover coming from the direction of the artillery marker.

After that, remove the marker and carry on. I have found this to be way more balanced in Bolt Action than anything else I've dealt with in representing artillery in any other skirmish wargame. It's pretty satisfying and simple and does a good job of doing what you want.

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Moustache-twirling Princeps





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 Backspacehacker wrote:
Slightly off topic, but sortta on, SM at one point had a cool formation that effectively did this.

It was 3 WW and a land speeder. Land speeder was the spotter and made it so your WW acted like they had LoS so less scatter.
It is in the current C:SM.

Eldar have a spotter role with the HWTs bought as part of the Guardian detachments. Guardians are the spotters, and have a 12" range to get re-rolls on the heavy weapon platforms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/05 14:27:33


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Or, you can keep your artillery in reserves as mentioned. However, any unit in out flank or deep strike reserves can have a little mini-game where they target it instead of comming on the table. Let flyers go after them too and you've got an interesting diversion.

Then again, this game takes a while to play as is...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/06 13:26:12


   
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Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Or, you can keep your artillery in reserves as mentioned. However, any unit in out flank or deep strike reserves can have a little mini-game where they target it instead of comming on the table. Let flyers go after them too and you've got an interesting diversion.

Then again, this game takes a while to play as is...
AAAAAAGH NO!

If we're going that far, why don't we just get TWO BOARDS and swap units between them as they go in and out of reserves, playing TWO FULL GAMES at once!

How 'bout we just put the models on the table, and then play with them?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I was thinking about it, what if for s single turn you it's with certain rules did something without comming onto the table and then went into ongoing reserves?
So, roll for reserves. If the unit succeeds, they can instead go directly into ongoing reserves and perform one of the tasks listed below at the start of your wnwmies movement phase.


Units with barrage weaponsand a range over 72" get to fire a volley using the indirect fire rules.

Units with skyfire get to shoot at a flyer or fmc on the table.

Outflank units can negate one unit from gaining the benefit above. (so they're harassed by the forward scouts and aren't able to set up a good position, forcing them into the conflict earlier than planned)

So next turn they arrive on the table, but get to use their real world tactical benefit for a little while.

   
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Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

There used to be something like this in the old IA book. Artillery strikes for the Imperial Guard - they took up a Heavy Support slot per barrage and required a Company Commander or Commad Tank to spot for them - if the Company Commander was taken out then the barrages stopped.
Each barrage started in reserve an you rolled for them until they arrived. Once they had arrived they automatically happened each turn.

there where 5:
A massive bombard shot
A Earthshaker shell
A Heavy Mortar blast
A Quad Gun strike
A Mortar battery barrage
ranging in price from 100 points to about 30.

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