Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Also, the Flesh Hounds are Beasts (unless the source I checked is wrong, in which case, ignore this comment! ), these also do not have access to leader traits and specialist skills.
I gotta say, fit all the fun I have with kill team, I'm kind of at a loss as to how the heck daemons are supposed to have any fun with it. Seems like they have no real options other than flamers
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
BrookM wrote: Also, the Flesh Hounds are Beasts (unless the source I checked is wrong, in which case, ignore this comment! ), these also do not have access to leader traits and specialist skills.
As I under understood it, specialists have to be nom-vehicle models. Beasts are not vehicles xD. Unless I'm missing the list where it says no to beast specialists?
I just grabbed the new rules book. Models with the Beast unit type or Swarm special rule cannot be leaders or specialists. It's right in the rules for selecting leaders, and repeats under the specialists rule.
Even nastier is the Black Knight bike. You can only take five, with no upgrades, but they have two real advantages; Twin Linked Plasma with rapid fire and Skilled Rider. The Skilled rider helps on those terrain filled boards, and the rapid fire is nice, since your speed will usually let you get close enough to use it. Take split fire on one of your specialists, and you can pop a second target per turn if you are facing a larger army. This configuration will get toasted by hordes, though.
One thing I am getting ready to try is a mixed configuration. I want to take a five man tactical squad, and either five Ravenwing bikes, or three Black Knights. Tacticals aren't bad in Kill Team, and the bikes would help me get to and knock out any tougher targets.
you want Scouts. I won a small tournament a couple weeks ago with three Black Knights and five Scouts with cloaks and heavy bolter. I gave the other Scouts close combat weapons (2nd Ed models) but bolters and sniper rifles might be better.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I gotta say, fit all the fun I have with kill team, I'm kind of at a loss as to how the heck daemons are supposed to have any fun with it. Seems like they have no real options other than flamers
8 Screamers.
Lot's of manuverability, 5++ save, 2 wounds, good in assault, option for AP 2 attack.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I gotta say, fit all the fun I have with kill team, I'm kind of at a loss as to how the heck daemons are supposed to have any fun with it. Seems like they have no real options other than flamers
8 Screamers.
Lot's of manuverability, 5++ save, 2 wounds, good in assault, option for AP 2 attack.
Problem is that it's only 5++, they gonna get shredded by anything with a modicum of shots on average
MrMoustaffa wrote: I gotta say, fit all the fun I have with kill team, I'm kind of at a loss as to how the heck daemons are supposed to have any fun with it. Seems like they have no real options other than flamers
8 Screamers.
Lot's of manuverability, 5++ save, 2 wounds, good in assault, option for AP 2 attack.
Problem is that it's only 5++, they gonna get shredded by anything with a modicum of shots on average
Did I also mention that they can jink ?
Screamers are a Jetbike unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 15:51:49
We had five people show up for the tourney today (two no shows, though one was at Spiel in Essen yesterday and the other had a drinking event ), but overall this was a great success, as we tested the waters for a more official event with proper price support later down the line! Data was collated and lessons were learned.
The forces involved were, from the top of my head..
Tau Empire with a pair of Crisis Suits (one with plasma, the other with burst cannons, nothing twin-linked), a Tetra and a Piranha, plus some drones. In hindsight, this list was illegal, because he had two fast attack options. Interestingly enough, the burst cannon suit had +1 BS, while the two extra gun drones were each turned into specialists as well, one having Scout, the other.. FnPIIRC.
Inquisition which is the closest we got to a proper horde army with a psy-bolt Chimera, three heavy bolter servitors, four daemon hosts, one veteran with plasma gun, one with storm bolter and three death cult assassins. I can't remember the specialists (sorry!), but IIRC they were all more or less configured towards rip & tear, with the exception of the plasma gunner, who had preferred enemy to negate all that getting hot.
Deathwatch with a pair of bikers (one with power axe, the other with power sword) and three Vanguard veterans (one with inferno pistol and lightning claw, can't remember what the other two had, probably claws).
Necrons with a heavy destroyer and Praetorians. Didn't play this guy, so I don't know his specialists.
Militarum Tempestus with a Taurox Prime with extra armour and five scions (power weapon + bolt pistol, hotshot volleygun and plasma gun). Relentless on the volleygun, ignore cover on the plasma gun and preferred enemy on one of the regular scions.
Due to a call from work I couldn't stay until the last game was resolved, which was Inquisition versus Necrons, but it looks like Inquisition and the Tau were the big winners of the day with two wins each, not bad! Especially considering his Daemonhosts had really gakky rolls almost every turn and his servitors didn't do that well either on their mindlock rolls. But when they did, they did hit quite hard, making for an enjoyable second game.
I managed to get three games in myself (big pro of playing a small force full of squishy models!): Deathwatch (lost 6-0 on Infiltrate the Camp as defender), Inquisition (lost 2-1 on Forward Push) and Tau Empire (won 4-3 on Infiltrate the camp as defender). The game against the Deathwatch was quite lopsided, as his special munitions meant I didn't stand a chance whatsoever, he blazed through my models with no effort at all. Inquisition was quite fun, as we both had a decent transport on the table, plus most of my infantry outflanked, but alas, he had more dudes than I had lucky dice rolls. As for the Tau, all my models bunkered up in the Taurox, barrelled towards his Piranha and from there I proceeded to take him down, one model at a time, with the cherry on the pie being my Tempestor taking down one of his suits and a gun drone in melee.
As for tables.. we had three tables, one packed with MDF Infinity buildings, the other with forest terrain and the last with GW ruin kits. Each table was built around two missions, to minimise the amount of messing about a player could do with the terrain. The Infinity table was probably voted most favourite, as it had the most effective blocking of LOS, whereas the other two were deemed to be too open and quite lacking in cover. Quite interesting and something to keep in mind for the next event.
Changes / additions we may look into for the next one..
* Not allowing Forge World units. This is NOT a general kneejerk reaction or fear of the unknown, as at the end of the day only one FW unit was involved (the Tetra), so it wouldn't mess up too many plans. Plus, when we're doing an official event, we want to check the army lists beforehand to see whether or not they are legal. Leaving out the sometimes murky stuff rulewise (some people are fond of writing lists using outdated material after all) should make it easier for the meta-person involved, who does not have to go through loads of books to check every unit and whatnot. Plus, let's be honest here, the vanilla codex books offer enough great units for this game as is. Aaaaaaaand this is something we do with other tourneys as well, so may as well stick to that one then.
* Allowing players to pick their Leader Trait instead of rolling for it. Partially because the rolls for a lot of us were quite.. useless in a not-so-hilarious way, but also because this is recommended in GW's tourney pack to speed up play and make for a better experience / forging that narrative.
* More LOS blocking terrain on the other tables. Bit of a no-brainer really, as shooting really rules in this version of the game. Assaulting is fine and dandy, but shooting is where it's really at. This was a request many had, that while the forest and ruined city tables were nice, next time around they'd be even better if they included more terrain that blocks off LOS.
On a personal note, having low numbers, no matter how well armoured, does tend to hurt a lot. For the next outing I may just replace the Taurox Prime with a pair of Armoured Sentinels.
I felt a little like "that guy" at a small KT event yesterday. My whole list was one unit of 10 Warp-Spiders, one of which was an Exarch. 200pts on the nose.
Needless to say, it wasn't a fun time for my opponents. I'm definitely bringing far fluffier KTs in the future.
It really depends on the opponents and the sort of event I suppose. While the tourney we had was without any sort of reward, I did expect them to bring their A game with whatever works best for their armies of choice.
I was quite surprised though by what the majority brought along, with them being quite vocal about wanting to bring along stuff that is fluffier or more thematic with an emphasis on fitting the theme, rather than bringing something hard that can kick the teeth out of anything they come across.
Most interesting was their opinion on hordes in the setting, which while a game-winner for sure, was seen as something time consuming to work with (even with a hour per game, which was quite generous, some still struggled to play a full game) and something that went against the essence of the game.
Most armies may have one or two choices that can be singled out as being hard or the like. In my opinion Warp Spiders can still be a fluffy choice, though you can always take half a squad of those backed by another type of Aspect Warrior to even things out.
After today I certainly want to shout (mind, tongue in cheek) certain things about the Deathwatch, who are ideal for these sort of games, acting like Swiss Army Knives with their special munitions and mission tactics, some of us never stood a chance!
Thank you for sharing your tournament experience. Limiting model count for expediency is not a bad idea, but we want to keep big armies as an option. Maybe 25 models to allow an infantry platoon?
"After today I certainly want to shout (mind, tongue in cheek) certain things about the Deathwatch, who are ideal for these sort of games, acting like Swiss Army Knives with their special munitions and mission tactics, some of us never stood a chance!"
I recently played against Deathwatch and those vengeance rounds were ripping me apart! And the mission tactic that lets them reroll ones against tactical squads(my only troops in my Killteam) made sure he never suffered It Gets Hot when using them.
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
axisofentropy wrote: Thank you for sharing your tournament experience. Limiting model count for expediency is not a bad idea, but we want to keep big armies as an option. Maybe 25 models to allow an infantry platoon?
In the end, it is up to the organiser to decide if there should be any limits or not, be it for the sake of expediency or because certain players have a certain reputation. The way I see it, if you know the people who attend are fast players, or not the anal sort who take forever to decide something, it shouldn't be an issue. We had put a model cap on it a few years ago, but this was mainly due to having a very, very slow Guard player in our ranks at that point, who brought a platoon to these things and brought things down to a grinding halt whenever it was his turn, as every model had to be placed just right, checked from several angles.. while we weren't playing on a clock, 40k in 40 minutes it was not!
If one must cap (expedience etc.), then 25 models is a generous one at that, with enough room for upgrades for the horde armies, though it really shouldn't be needed. Though mind, this is from personal experience at my local store.
Mrs. Esterhouse wrote: I recently played against Deathwatch and those vengeance rounds were ripping me apart! And the mission tactic that lets them reroll ones against tactical squads(my only troops in my Killteam) made sure he never suffered It Gets Hot when using them.
Indeed! Though while I was easy pickings, he was more or less taken apart by the Tau player and I heard that he lost to the Necron player as well, though the latter has been compared to having ones teeth pulled without anaesthetic, so that may have been a half-hearted battle at that.
+ + +
Okay, with the information gained from yesterday I've decided to probably go with the following for the next Kill Team outing, whenever that may be.
I was a bit torn on the power weapon before, but after the Tempestor killed a Crisis suit and gun drone with it in a single assault phase, it's a keeper.
Still need to decide whether to take an multi-laser or heavy flamer on the second walker.
For the big one we'll also be allowing people to pick their trait for the day instead of rolling for it, which may result in a massive uptick of people going for "Been there, seen it, done it.." just so they can have a fourth specialist in the team.
Leader trait: Been there, Seen it, Done it - Combat Specialist (Fleshbane, because well.. I want to hurt stuff reliably in melee!)
If you're going to take Fleshben on the Scion dude, take a hotshot pistol, and you'll get AP 3 fleshbane rather than AP5 fleshbane. It shouldn't cost any more pts.
Ah, in that case, nevermind. Would it be possible to swap the 5 men squad for a command squad? The bump in initiative ( and to WS, even if it is a minor thing) means you would not get outspeeded by Marines, it would make the Power weapon/fleshbane investement far more worthy.
A command squad did cross my mind, but it is 15 extra points, which would mean dropping either the plasma gun or power weapon.
Plus, the Tempestus platoon must have one Scions squad at the very least before you can take a command squad. Believe me, it has crossed my mind with one list variant, but that would mean ten pairs of boots on the ground with some special weapons, but nothing tough to draw enemy fire.
Good points. I just though that if you were going for a melee ish kind of character, you'd want that dude to be able to strike at least at the same time as Marines, but yeah, point limits is a female dog in that case.
2x Veteran with shotgun and combi-melta
Veteran with Stalker Bolter
Veteran with shotgun and combi-plasma
Veteran with Infernus Heavy Bolter
Vanguard Veteran with 2x lightning claws
I'd probably give the Vanguard either FNP or Stealth, just to keep them safe whilst they close into melee.
The stalker bolter guy should probably get Sharpshooter
The infernus guy should get whichever trait the Vanguard doesn't.
Bobthehero wrote:Good points. I just though that if you were going for a melee ish kind of character, you'd want that dude to be able to strike at least at the same time as Marines, but yeah, point limits is a female dog in that case.
That may be the problem, turning a weak meatbag into a melee monster, something it can never be in the first place!
Sgt_Smudge wrote:I'm looking at Deathwatch:
2x Veteran with shotgun and combi-melta
Veteran with Stalker Bolter
Veteran with shotgun and combi-plasma
Veteran with Infernus Heavy Bolter
Vanguard Veteran with 2x lightning claws
I'd probably give the Vanguard either FNP or Stealth, just to keep them safe whilst they close into melee.
The stalker bolter guy should probably get Sharpshooter
The infernus guy should get whichever trait the Vanguard doesn't.
Corrrrr, that's nasty!
You are equipped to deal with hordes, vehicles and everything in between with such a variety of weaponry.
FnP is good for a Vanguard, though something that maximises the damage output in melee may also be desirable. Though can't argue with Stealth either, as reaching a target can be quite a task in and of itself in this setting.
As for the Infernus.. it's a bit tough as the stalker already has ignore cover (relentless would be great on the stalker though!), but you can always slap scout onto the model and have it outflank. It is already Relentless so to say, so having it pop up from one of the flanks is always a nice added bonus.
The final results of the tourney are in, more or less, I'm missing the outcome of one battle (Inquisition versus Necrons), but here's what I got:
Tau Empire - 3 wins
Inquisition - 1 wins
Necrons - 1 wins
Deathwatch - 1 wins
Militarum Tempestus - 1 win (against the Tau no less! )
The Tau player though has seen the mistake he made with the creation of his list and has offered to relinquish all points, though that would result in a four way tie. None of that!
BrookM wrote: If you want to troll, take a bare-bones infantry platoon with an attached conscript squad, that's forty-five models for 190 pts, leaving you with ten pts to spend on some upgrades or whatnot.
It's all fun and games until you lose half your models and start making leadership checks! Oh noes!
I'm thinking of running my scars
5 scouts vet sarge melta bombs leader. Heavy bolter with helfire shells relentless and bolters
Landspeeder storm basic
3 scout bikes sarge with machine sabotage and one with rage.
Fast, tough, capable of taking on most things.and fluffy.
Plasma 1referred enemy
Plasma 2:Ignores cover
Autocannon: Feel no pain
Sarge leader trait: 12"break test
Opponent, deathwatch. Forgive me not knowing exact terms here
5 man 'tac' squad: stalker pattern bolter, the heavy bolter/flamer combo, sarge with storm shield, and 2 regular marines
1 vanguard vet with jetpack and the S10 thunder hammer
Vanguard: scout
Heavy bolter/flamer: Relentless
Stalker bolter: eagle eye (I think, essentially whatever upped his range)
Sarge had zealot if I remember right.
First game was over very quickly, slay the leader. Leader hid in Chimera and thanks to a fairly open table I gunned him down in short order. FNP on the Autocannon team won me the game along with camo gear and Grenadiers. The Autocannon probably took 12 wounds and still survived, getting half my kills as it was set up on a very commanding ruin overlooking battlefield.
Game 2, take the high ground. opponent and I realized we had far too little LoS terrain and added a bastion and some other terrain to the table. It was here I learned how scary a Vanguard vet with a jumppack, scout, and super hammer can be. Given he can be halfway across the board before the game even starts, I had to be very careful with the Chimera (especially because everyone but the Autocannon was in it)
Autocannon again absorbed stupid amounts of fire, between 3+ cover saves or 4 plus armor (he had ignores cover rounds but they didn't ignore carapace) Autocannon again gets a couple kills and hits far above its points value. Turn 3 I got a bit careless with the Chimera and the vanguard gets a crazy good charge off. Chimera not too surprisingly explodes, with only one guardsman dying to the explosion somehow, but all but one getting pinned. One of the plasmas cowering in the crater pops the vanguard at point blank snap firing and the game gets tense.
I've pushed him to breaking point and started to move up at this point, I make it to the terrain piece but couldn't board it in time before game ends, but win due to first blood/break point, whereas all he had was one objective point. Vanguard are very scary and if I hadn't gone nuts with upgrades I would've been hurting. Also the Chimera explosion killing only one model was a bit silly, had it rolled average (or killed my leader) it couldve swung the game for him.
Be very careful of specialist ammo, between longer ranged rounds, ap 4 shells, and ignores cover, they have a lot of nasty tricks. I think their stalkers can even get AP 3 if they use a shorter ranged round.
Also, for guard players out there. I would heavily consider a FnP Autocannon team, especially if you take vets, over relentless. Every game I play the autocannons attract crazy amount of fire and if you set them up well you won't move much anyways. The FNP really helps survival against all the small arms that will be thrown their way in the mid game.
As for why autocannons over other weapons, players just really fear them. They hit hard, have good RoF, and long range. For marines or tough infantry they just pile wounds on to force saves. For hordes theyre an incredibly overkill sniper team that loves to pick out enemy leaders and specialists. Plus they can always hurt any vehicle in the game. Every game the enemy always shoots everything he can at them and every game they do some serious work. I don't leave home without one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/18 03:22:03
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: I gotta say, fit all the fun I have with kill team, I'm kind of at a loss as to how the heck daemons are supposed to have any fun with it. Seems like they have no real options other than flamers
8 Screamers.
Lot's of manuverability, 5++ save, 2 wounds, good in assault, option for AP 2 attack.
Problem is that it's only 5++, they gonna get shredded by anything with a modicum of shots on average
Did I also mention that they can jink ?
Screamers are a Jetbike unit.
So each model has 2 wounds, a 4+ jink, re-roll 1's for their saves, can do D3 str4 attacks just by turbo-boosting over their target, have HoW + 4 str4 attacks or 1 str5 AP2 Armourbane attack. Yeah, 8 Screamers are a good KT choice
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/18 14:09:08
2x Veteran with shotgun and combi-melta
Veteran with Stalker Bolter
Veteran with shotgun and combi-plasma
Veteran with Infernus Heavy Bolter
Vanguard Veteran with 2x lightning claws
I'd probably give the Vanguard either FNP or Stealth, just to keep them safe whilst they close into melee.
The stalker bolter guy should probably get Sharpshooter
The infernus guy should get whichever trait the Vanguard doesn't.
I've been running Deathwatch myself. Infernus has proven quite good, particularly with Reaping Volley. The range is generally overkill, but it means you can pick scatter targets from all over the board. The big downside is you lose out on the other wonderful Weapon rules, but it really helps the numeric disadvantage. The Frag seems strong, but I'm not sure if the extra 5 doesn't cost me something important. I've put Scout on the Stalker, which generally is enough to fix counterdeploy issues and let him fire all game. There's probably better options though.
I have a personal love of Vanguards, but I'm not sure what they bring to the table the bikes don't do better. Have yet to fit them in, but I've been wanting to try 5 bikes, which generally leaves you with room for a single Vanguard I guess. If you're going to go double claws as your only Vanguard, you should probably just declare him Edryc. Exact same cost and profile with Stealth, Strike from the Shadows, and Winged Deliverance tossed on for good measure.
Hey guys! My local store is running a KT league in a few weeks, and I've decided to break in my necrons so to speak. Limited by models, but I have a few options.
-5 Praetorians w/void blades and particle casters
-3 Scarabs
So far this is what I'm planning to take. I'll pick a trait for my Leader ahead of time for if/when I get to choose, but the other three specialists will have Killer Instinct, Machine Sabateur, and Infiltrate. I decided to go with void blades for entropic strike and rending. Mostly for anti-vehicle capabilities. While it's not a reliable AP2 combination, I'm hoping everything else these guys can do will make up for it. Thoughts?
My other options are
-15 Warriors
-5 Immortals/5 Deathmarks (or 10 of either unit)
-5 Lychguard + Scarabs (depending on load out)
Cheers!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/19 00:40:33
), these also do not have access to leader traits and specialist skills.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
Member of 
DKoK Blog:
Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey
referred enemy
