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 BrookM wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Heavy bolter/flamer: Relentless

Ha, your opponent wasted a skill on that one. Unless I'm mistaken the Deathwatch heavy bolter and Infernus variant are both assault instead of heavy.

I wouldn't know to be honest. Obviously the heavy flamer is assault but I would assume the bolter still counts as heavy. If not that weapon is even better for kill team than I thought

The regular Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer is still Heavy. The Infernus Heavy Bolter with both is Assault.

Hi, guys. I'm just in the process of returning to 40k through Kill Team having been playing a wealth of other skirmish games - mostly Infinity - for the last few years.

I like the scale and style of KT and of course the setting is as brilliant as ever, but - and this is early days, because I'm yet to put it on the tabletop, and plan to play it "as is" before doing any work on this - it does seem a bit like 40klite rather than a distinct narrative experience in its own right.

I was thinking about introducing some ideas from Infinity that I thought would give it some more flavour. On the basis of a rules read-through, I was considering the following:

1. Must be touching cover to benefit from a cover save.

2. If reduced to 0 wounds, models go unconscious rather than dead. If reduced to less than 0 wounds, models are dead.

3. Introduce technical specialists - like other specialists, you'd get up to three of these, and they would include medics, techs and psykers. Obviously, some army list choices would already count as one of these (apothecaries, enginseers, warlocks), but you could also upgrade another model to be a watered-down version.

4. Bin vehicles, except for walkers.

5. Allow players to break some restrictions. For example, they might be able to include up to three models from up to two codex options without buying the whole unit. These may include models with a 2+ save but may not include characters. They may have any of the options they could normally take in their unit.

Is this a totally stupid idea or would people be interested in this sort of adaptation of the main rules?

LunarSol wrote:
The regular Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer is still Heavy. The Infernus Heavy Bolter with both is Assault.

Correction, regular Heavy Bolter is Heavy, regular Heavy Flamer is Assault. But I assume you are right about the Infernus HB.

Fun fact: Heavy Flamers are Assault, but Assault cannons are Heavy. Because the Emprah wills it so!

 Galef wrote:

LunarSol wrote:
The regular Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer is still Heavy. The Infernus Heavy Bolter with both is Assault.

Correction, regular Heavy Bolter is Heavy, regular Heavy Flamer is Assault. But I assume you are right about the Infernus HB.

Fun fact: Heavy Flamers are Assault, but Assault cannons are Heavy. Because the Emprah wills it so!

I especially love telling my opponents about how *this* model took a weapon from the Heavy Weapons list, and then having them stop me when I fire at full BS after moving, only to then have to explain to them that despite being on the heavy weapon list, it has the assault rule.

Except I don't love that. At all. It totally jars me out of the moment.

 precinctomega wrote:
Hi, guys. I'm just in the process of returning to 40k through Kill Team having been playing a wealth of other skirmish games - mostly Infinity - for the last few years.

I like the scale and style of KT and of course the setting is as brilliant as ever, but - and this is early days, because I'm yet to put it on the tabletop, and plan to play it "as is" before doing any work on this - it does seem a bit like 40klite rather than a distinct narrative experience in its own right.

I was thinking about introducing some ideas from Infinity that I thought would give it some more flavour. On the basis of a rules read-through, I was considering the following:

1. Must be touching cover to benefit from a cover save.

2. If reduced to 0 wounds, models go unconscious rather than dead. If reduced to less than 0 wounds, models are dead.

3. Introduce technical specialists - like other specialists, you'd get up to three of these, and they would include medics, techs and psykers. Obviously, some army list choices would already count as one of these (apothecaries, enginseers, warlocks), but you could also upgrade another model to be a watered-down version.

4. Bin vehicles, except for walkers.

5. Allow players to break some restrictions. For example, they might be able to include up to three models from up to two codex options without buying the whole unit. These may include models with a 2+ save but may not include characters. They may have any of the options they could normally take in their unit.

Is this a totally stupid idea or would people be interested in this sort of adaptation of the main rules?

I suspect you'd be better off just playing Infinity for what it is and Kill Team for what it is then trying to create a hybrid. If you really want to try and flesh out Kill Team further, I'd look up the Heralds of Ruin rules. They're the most widely accepted variation of the rules.

Anyone play kill teams with nids? How did they fair?

 precinctomega wrote:
Hi, guys. I'm just in the process of returning to 40k through Kill Team having been playing a wealth of other skirmish games - mostly Infinity - for the last few years.

I like the scale and style of KT and of course the setting is as brilliant as ever, but - and this is early days, because I'm yet to put it on the tabletop, and plan to play it "as is" before doing any work on this - it does seem a bit like 40klite rather than a distinct narrative experience in its own right.

I was thinking about introducing some ideas from Infinity that I thought would give it some more flavour. On the basis of a rules read-through, I was considering the following:

1. Must be touching cover to benefit from a cover save.

2. If reduced to 0 wounds, models go unconscious rather than dead. If reduced to less than 0 wounds, models are dead.

3. Introduce technical specialists - like other specialists, you'd get up to three of these, and they would include medics, techs and psykers. Obviously, some army list choices would already count as one of these (apothecaries, enginseers, warlocks), but you could also upgrade another model to be a watered-down version.

4. Bin vehicles, except for walkers.

5. Allow players to break some restrictions. For example, they might be able to include up to three models from up to two codex options without buying the whole unit. These may include models with a 2+ save but may not include characters. They may have any of the options they could normally take in their unit.

Is this a totally stupid idea or would people be interested in this sort of adaptation of the main rules?

The unconscious instead of dead causes some problems with balance, even if you flesh out a concrete rule that interacts with rules like pink horrors exploding and reanimation protocols. What it does is give everything an extra wound if you want to try to force a break check, which is a ridiculous boost to MSU. Orks can take 19x grots and one runtherd for 62 points, and if that flamer only knocks them out then you might as well have old mob rule back. On the topic of your other suggestions I think the cover change could work, and the breaking restrictions thing seems really strong, but could work in 350-ish point games. (if the kill team ruleset doesn't spontaneously combust under the strain.)

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 precinctomega wrote:
Hi, guys. I'm just in the process of returning to 40k through Kill Team having been playing a wealth of other skirmish games - mostly Infinity - for the last few years.

I like the scale and style of KT and of course the setting is as brilliant as ever, but - and this is early days, because I'm yet to put it on the tabletop, and plan to play it "as is" before doing any work on this - it does seem a bit like 40klite rather than a distinct narrative experience in its own right.

I was thinking about introducing some ideas from Infinity that I thought would give it some more flavour. On the basis of a rules read-through, I was considering the following:

1. Must be touching cover to benefit from a cover save.

2. If reduced to 0 wounds, models go unconscious rather than dead. If reduced to less than 0 wounds, models are dead.

3. Introduce technical specialists - like other specialists, you'd get up to three of these, and they would include medics, techs and psykers. Obviously, some army list choices would already count as one of these (apothecaries, enginseers, warlocks), but you could also upgrade another model to be a watered-down version.

4. Bin vehicles, except for walkers.

5. Allow players to break some restrictions. For example, they might be able to include up to three models from up to two codex options without buying the whole unit. These may include models with a 2+ save but may not include characters. They may have any of the options they could normally take in their unit.

Is this a totally stupid idea or would people be interested in this sort of adaptation of the main rules?

The unconscious instead of dead causes some problems with balance, even if you flesh out a concrete rule that interacts with rules like pink horrors exploding and reanimation protocols. What it does is give everything an extra wound if you want to try to force a break check, which is a ridiculous boost to MSU. Orks can take 19x grots and one runtherd for 62 points, and if that flamer only knocks them out then you might as well have old mob rule back. On the topic of your other suggestions I think the cover change could work, and the breaking restrictions thing seems really strong, but could work in 350-ish point games. (if the kill team ruleset doesn't spontaneously combust under the strain.)

I believe with Heralds of Ruin if you double their toughness it causes "instant death". So for example a bolter or flamer would double out a grot and kill it instantly, an autocannon or multilaser would double out a guardsman and kill him instant, a Missile Launcher or lascannon would double out a space marine and kill him instantly, etc.

On the subject of Orks, I've been toying around with them a bit and while I have a dudespam I think is alright (20 shootas, 2 Rokkits, and Grots) but I'd like to have another option with dudes on a Trukk. Thoughts on Defkopta vs Warbikers vs Warbuggies to go along with it? Sadly none of them are super convenient to get unfortunately and the 1 FA slot leaves you spamming one instead of any mix matching potential.

 Solosam47 wrote:
Anyone play kill teams with nids? How did they fair?

I've played a few games with jids, the reports you can see if you trawl back in the thread or look at my post history. A team of 14 stealers did well, and that was before the genecult dex came out and made them strictly better! Hormas and shrikes was okay, but warriors and devilgaunts was better.

I've seen Warriors and Devilgaunts do well.

People have said repeatedly that Genestealers do well. As Benlisted mentioned, the Genestealer Cult Purestrain Genestealers would have to do even better.

The warriors do seem like they will do very good, im thinking warriors kitted for range and a lictor for good measure

A Lictor would be nasty...and I have seen Warriors do well, FWIW.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Galef wrote:

LunarSol wrote:
The regular Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer is still Heavy. The Infernus Heavy Bolter with both is Assault.

Correction, regular Heavy Bolter is Heavy, regular Heavy Flamer is Assault. But I assume you are right about the Infernus HB.

Fun fact: Heavy Flamers are Assault, but Assault cannons are Heavy. Because the Emprah wills it so!

I especially love telling my opponents about how *this* model took a weapon from the Heavy Weapons list, and then having them stop me when I fire at full BS after moving, only to then have to explain to them that despite being on the heavy weapon list, it has the assault rule.

Except I don't love that. At all. It totally jars me out of the moment.

"Heavy" heavy flamers would suck. Totally useless. And not being in the heavy weapon list would make them spammable.

So yes is not perfect but is better than the alternatives.

Just wanted to chime in regarding the Necron Praetorians and Tomb Blades in Kill Team. Had a couple KT games over the weekend, on a city themed board with lots of terrain and bridges/catwalks.

My KT was 5 Praets with Rods of Covenant and 3 Guass Blaster Blades with Nebuloscopes (ignore cover). Praet Leader had extra range skill, one Praet had +1BS, another had Rage, can't recall the last one...

The Jump and Jetbike rules really helped me go anywhere easily for sniping shots and closing for combat when necessary.

Played against a small Harlequin group, and a larger Stormtrooper list, and won both games.

Had a few crappy rolls when in HtH and lost 3 Praets to Stormtroopers (!), but the Tomb Blades ripped through their armor and cover, and a T5 KT is tough for S3 to crack. I did get to the 50% casualty point, so the Blades had to test for bottle shock, and one did scarper off, but held out and won.

Harlequins rolled a few guys at first, but when the dice turned against him they really turned. 6 guys was not a lot of room for error or casualties. They were hard to target since they were scooting from cover to cover well though.


Thoughts on this: Kroot Kill Team? I really love the Kroot and thought a list like the following might be fun:

Shaper
9 Kroot
2 Kroot Hounds
1 Krootox

Shaper with Pulse Rifle
9 Kroot with Sniper rounds

Yeah? No? Slaughtered outright?

I just realized that you cannot field Canoptek Wraiths in 200pt KT.

They are beasts and thus cannot be specialists and since you MUST have specialists and there is no Troop or Elite unit cheap enough to fit in the same list as 3 Wraiths, you cannot bring Wraiths.
Is that correct?

Correct.

The only Necron unit I've found useful for Kill Team has been Destroyers.

In general, if it was part of one of GW's Kill Team web bundles, it probably isn't legal in Kill Team....

 adamsouza wrote:
Correct.

The only Necron unit I've found useful for Kill Team has been Destroyers.

I found tomb blades with ignore cover scopes are pretty amazing in kt as well

Actually, I take that back. Not super familiar with Necrons. Do Flayed Ones not work?

Ecdain wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Correct.

The only Necron unit I've found useful for Kill Team has been Destroyers.

I found tomb blades with ignore cover scopes are pretty amazing in kt as well

Nine of those making up a KT are how you lose friends.

 Galef wrote:
I just realized that you cannot field Canoptek Wraiths in 200pt KT.

They are beasts and thus cannot be specialists and since you MUST have specialists and there is no Troop or Elite unit cheap enough to fit in the same list as 3 Wraiths, you cannot bring Wraiths.
Is that correct?

Flayed Ones.

Not taking about losing friends, was a discussion on what's good, not what's nice xD

Ecdain wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I just realized that you cannot field Canoptek Wraiths in 200pt KT.

They are beasts and thus cannot be specialists and since you MUST have specialists and there is no Troop or Elite unit cheap enough to fit in the same list as 3 Wraiths, you cannot bring Wraiths.
Is that correct?

Flayed Ones.

Edit: I thought they started at 10 models minimum, but if the minimum is only 5, than you are correct and it is possible for take Wraiths in KT, and you can even put Whip coils on them.

-

Was wondering if ork nobz might do okay -you can fit eight with eavy armour and twin-barrelled shootas - with relatively little ap4, two wounds with a 4+ save shouldn't be all that fragile...

My brother loves using them, though his are mainly geared towards krumpin' things with 'eavy armour and the odd big choppa.

They are quite a tough nut to crack, as he's quite relentless in his advance and will stop at nothing to reach my models.

Though I should hasten to add that my brother is not as much a veteran to 40k as others, so we've been taking it easy, playing at around 120 pts per side, having his Nobs face off against Fire Warriors, Space Marines and even Storm Troopers, which led to some interesting, close games.

I've been thinking of just doing 3 Destroyers answer 1 Heavy Destroyer, with the latter being the leader and just make the former three specialists.

Which skills have you guys found the most handy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should clarify I'm leaning towards Ignores Cover on one and extra range on the other. Would the last one be best with Spitfire or something else?

locarno24 wrote:
Was wondering if ork nobz might do okay -you can fit eight with eavy armour and twin-barrelled shootas - with relatively little ap4, two wounds with a 4+ save shouldn't be all that fragile...

Fun ? Yes.

Highly competitive ? No.

So for casual play, go for it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've been thinking of just doing 3 Destroyers answer 1 Heavy Destroyer, with the latter being the leader and just make the former three specialists.

Which skills have you guys found the most handy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should clarify I'm leaning towards Ignores Cover on one and extra range on the other. Would the last one be best with Spitfire or something else?

You might wanna check which category all those traits come from. Specialists cannot have rules from the same category and I think all of those are Weapon Specialists
I would go with the Ignores cover on one of them for sure. The other 2 are 'meh' for Destroyers
I would put Infiltrate on another, not sure about the 3rd.

I also think you are better off with 5 Destroyers. More models are way more important and anti-tank weapons aren't needed as much (especially since you have Guass)

-

I agree with Galef, bodies matter more than S.

I've also run 5 Destroyers before and Kill Team and it was a good time. Move, shoot, jetpack back into cover, repeat.