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 General Annoyance wrote:
It is a little funny how he ended up costing so much - it's very difficult to see why he costs so much next to other HQ's, which are around the 10-15 pound margin here in the UK.

I think the sculpt is nice, but not good enough to merit paying £22 for. I'm just pleased that we can finally buy the Void Shield Generator model that they stupidly put as an LE model. Give me the Plasma Obliterator too GW, and we can forget about Kharn being £22 mmkay?

G.A

Actually most Space Marine HQ models are £18-20, so he's not too far off them.

 WarbossDakka wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

He's a lot bigger than people seem to grasp.

He's on a 40mm base and seems to use up the space pretty heavily. Additionally, Kharn is a one-off character model. The examples that people have been pointing at as "things being nice and reasonably priced" in the form of the recent Deathwatch character releases likely will not stick around barring the Watch Master.

Didn't think about that. I certainly just assumed he was on a 32mm base. So then it makes sense his pricing is in line with the Stormcast heroes.

He's pretty big, and comes in a box rather than a clampack. Like the new broodlord, which is a similar price come to think about it.

Sorry, but there's an awful lot of dead space on a 40mm base, and the fact that he uses a penny or twos worth of extra plastic or comes in cardboard isn't really a valid argument.

The reality is that his sterling price is the standard advancement in price GW applies to each new release, and his Oceania pricing is a symptom of some sort of weird thinking I can't begin to fathom.

Kevin Rountree wrote:
Gross margin was maintained in the period (2016: 68.3%; 2015: 68.9%). We continued with our policy of only increasing the prices of our new releases (approximately 30% of our sales) to reflect the necessary investment in our product offer and the quality we have built into these new releases. The annual impact of this increase on our UK RRP price list is an average increase of 3%.

 Gamgee wrote:
He is 43 here in canada. On the higher side but not unreasonable. It sucks you have to pay that NZ tax and the Aussie. What tax? Just for being there.

Same with Canada. It's a mere couple of hours drive from the US to Canada and they charge it up a lot over the US version here.

Well i can get 45 canada dollars for 35 us dollars so you get discount.

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
He is 43 here in canada. On the higher side but not unreasonable. It sucks you have to pay that NZ tax and the Aussie. What tax? Just for being there.

Same with Canada. It's a mere couple of hours drive from the US to Canada and they charge it up a lot over the US version here.

One small plastic mini sold at 43$ is not unreasonable to you????

To me, it seems that nowadays, the only affordable things from GW are the discounted bundle (a la deatwatch or get started kit), every other new release is simply grossly overpriced. And a make a decent amount of $$$, imagine how hard it is to get in the hobby for students or teens.

I am a bedraggled starved survivor of the current age of "overpriced pay to win gambling simulators or cheap unity asset knockoff" formerly known as video games. Compared to how the video game industry is milking its chattel and harpooning for whales GW is the kindest company by comparison. The Kharn model takes longer to assemble and is funner to me than what people try and pass as video games. He can then be added to my collection and I can always talk about him and be proud and even get in the occasional games with him. A brand new video game here is 80 dollars and most games (99.99...%) are just not even worth that name anymore then they rip out and tear out functionality or features from past games to be sold for more or cut up a story into three games just cause they can (Deus Ex Mankind Divided). The only video game exception to this is CDProject Red. I feel every other video game company needs to crash and burn and the whole industry needs a restart. Somewhere along the way video games died and the gambling industry scored a big win with their dumb mandatory gambling crates. Then they turn to your face and tell you its all for you. They love "adding value" and other buzzwords the gullible fans of video games believe.

Just talking about it is depressing me. After the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle and the MechWarrior Online civil war things just went downhill. Oh I can't forget Bethesda for inventing the first dlc horse armor. People told me I was making a slippery slope argument, but I was right in the end and they were wrong.

Edit
I can get large discounts at my FLGS on larger 40k orders so I tend to order in bulk because of this which really lowers the cost. Though he does have a constant -10% off on all models but it can go higher depending on how high you order.

That argument is pretty useless. I play plenty of video games, I'm just smart enough to ignore the stupid ones. Just like miniatures, if something is stupidly priced - I'll ignore it.

The only similarity in both situations is that the end consumer is to blame (unfortunately). Companies would not produce and attempt to sell terrible games/miniatures if someone out there wasn't buying them.

A price is either worth it to someone, or not. Do not try to argue that it is an arbitrarily reasonably priced model. I'm sure plenty of people will pay $35+ for a single plastic miniature...and be fine with it. The rest of us will not, and as such we will not purchase said kit (I don't play Chaos so this is all pretty much irrelevant to me).

Anyone, GW or not, trying to sell me a tiny sprue of plastic for $35 can get stuffed.

Useless to you perhaps.

I'd like to point out that Kharn's physical size is irrelevant; the sprue he was produced on is still the same size as all the clampack characters, so it's literally costing them nothing more than the usual production run. The Dominus I can understand; he comes on two sprues, but Kharn is no different than the standard clampack characters.

It's even worse when compared to the Death Watch Terminator captain, who comes with more sprues at a smaller cost.

For a miniature that $15US in metal just a couple editions ago, $35 in mono-pose plastic is absurd for a single 28mm infantry model. $60something for our Oceania friends is beyond insane. That people actually mentioned those prices not being unreasonable in this thread is even more shocking. That's worse than FW character pricing and they're the expensive high end niche house. $35 bought a metal Demon Prince MC 6 years ago...now it gets you a single plastic character. Even if he's on a 40mm base, he's still not that huge, and a monopose plastic character to boot.

Yeah but remember, some people are so deep in that rabbit hole that this kind of justification is the only way they don't go insane from the revelation.

Meanwhile I still have my old metal kharn, and he still looks pretty good.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'd like to point out that Kharn's physical size is irrelevant; the sprue he was produced on is still the same size as all the clampack characters, so it's literally costing them nothing more than the usual production run. The Dominus I can understand; he comes on two sprues, but Kharn is no different than the standard clampack characters.

It's even worse when compared to the Death Watch Terminator captain, who comes with more sprues at a smaller cost.

Just makes it all the more weird that they are sticking him in a box and not a clampack.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Yeah but remember, some people are so deep in that rabbit hole that this kind of justification is the only way they don't go insane from the revelation.

Meanwhile I still have my old metal kharn, and he still looks pretty good.

Hey I explained my justification. Don't lump me in with them. If I try and explain it anymore I'll get banned for going off topic or talking about my hometown/land or something.

 Vaktathi wrote:
For a miniature that $15US in metal just a couple editions ago, $35 in mono-pose plastic is absurd for a single 28mm infantry model. $60something for our Oceania friends is beyond insane. That people actually mentioned those prices not being unreasonable in this thread is even more shocking. That's worse than FW character pricing and they're the expensive high end niche house. $35 bought a metal Demon Prince MC 6 years ago...now it gets you a single plastic character. Even if he's on a 40mm base, he's still not that huge, and a monopose plastic character to boot.

Remember how plastics used to mean POSABILITY and CONVERTABILITY? Now plastic characters are about as posable as the old metal models and with about as much options as well.

While the price is a bit much. How many khárn models is anyone gonna buy, one. Named character models are always more expensive. GW know you only need one and by now people should know that means gw will charge more. A lot of complaining over nothing. Don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved

GW knows very well you won't be buying just one. A lot of people use characters like these for conversion fodder. The entire "you can only have one in your army therefore you will only buy one" is a complete fallacy. I know people who buy multiple Glottkins simply to paint them. That doesn't include those who buy multiple glottkins for conversions as well. GW knows this, there's no way they can't because these people are placing orders for these from the same place. They just use that as one of the many excuses to justify these kind of pricing.

 Motograter wrote:
While the price is a bit much. How many khárn models is anyone gonna buy, one. Named character models are always more expensive. GW know you only need one and by now people should know that means gw will charge more. A lot of complaining over nothing. Don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved

QFT

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
GW knows very well you won't be buying just one. A lot of people use characters like these for conversion fodder. The entire "you can only have one in your army therefore you will only buy one" is a complete fallacy. I know people who buy multiple Glottkins simply to paint them. That doesn't include those who buy multiple glottkins for conversions as well. GW knows this, there's no way they can't because these people are placing orders for these from the same place. They just use that as one of the many excuses to justify these kind of pricing.

No, the majority of people who buy him will only buy one. You'll get the odd person who buys more to use them for conversions but most people will only buy one named character.

Just wait a few weeks after release before people start posting their "variants" of kharn. Most people think that it's just an outlier that someone buys more than one, but it's far more common than you'd think.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Just wait a few weeks after release before people start posting their "variants" of kharn. Most people think that it's just an outlier that someone buys more than one, but it's far more common than you'd think.

Their varient of Kharn might just be their one that they converted. It might be more common than I think, but I also wager it's less common than you seem to think, and definitely not the norm.

I'm not saying every chaos player is going to run outside and buy four copies of Kharn on release day, I'm saying that there will be enough random weirdos that buy multiple copies of him for conversion, variants and other reasons that they "even it out" to a normal set's sales.

By comparison, I doubt every player who wants to run the Librarius Conclave buys 3-5 GW-made Librarians (of any kind). They most likely convert most of them. But the logic there is that people /should/ buy multiple librarians, but no one wants an army made up of just identically posed models so they might go out and get Ezekiel, Mephiston, or other some such to convert up.

 Gamgee wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
He is 43 here in canada. On the higher side but not unreasonable. It sucks you have to pay that NZ tax and the Aussie. What tax? Just for being there.

Same with Canada. It's a mere couple of hours drive from the US to Canada and they charge it up a lot over the US version here.

One small plastic mini sold at 43$ is not unreasonable to you????

To me, it seems that nowadays, the only affordable things from GW are the discounted bundle (a la deatwatch or get started kit), every other new release is simply grossly overpriced. And a make a decent amount of $$$, imagine how hard it is to get in the hobby for students or teens.

I am a bedraggled starved survivor of the current age of "overpriced pay to win gambling simulators or cheap unity asset knockoff" formerly known as video games. Compared to how the video game industry is milking its chattel and harpooning for whales GW is the kindest company by comparison. The Kharn model takes longer to assemble and is funner to me than what people try and pass as video games. He can then be added to my collection and I can always talk about him and be proud and even get in the occasional games with him. A brand new video game here is 80 dollars and most games (99.99...%) are just not even worth that name anymore then they rip out and tear out functionality or features from past games to be sold for more or cut up a story into three games just cause they can (Deus Ex Mankind Divided). The only video game exception to this is CDProject Red. I feel every other video game company needs to crash and burn and the whole industry needs a restart. Somewhere along the way video games died and the gambling industry scored a big win with their dumb mandatory gambling crates. Then they turn to your face and tell you its all for you. They love "adding value" and other buzzwords the gullible fans of video games believe.

Just talking about it is depressing me. After the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle and the MechWarrior Online civil war things just went downhill. Oh I can't forget Bethesda for inventing the first dlc horse armor. People told me I was making a slippery slope argument, but I was right in the end and they were wrong.

Edit
I can get large discounts at my FLGS on larger 40k orders so I tend to order in bulk because of this which really lowers the cost. Though he does have a constant -10% off on all models but it can go higher depending on how high you order.

I don't think it's a really valid argument because for video games, you can wait a couple of months and the price will drop dramatically. Plus, buying them second hand will have 0 impact on the users experience, contrary to a mini where, personnaly, a big part of the fun isbuilding ans painting it

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I find it pretty disgusting myself, same price as a full squad to buy a plastic hero.

So much for roundtree turning things around.

"Oh look, they made start collecting, and BaC and Death Masque, but Kharn being 20 bucks more is too much! Damn you GW!"

Not to mention the improved community outreach, social media presence, etc. I don't get the mentality that a couple of things still being expensive invalidates every positive step they've made lately and somehow makes Rountree a 'false messiah'.

Creating an echo chamber on facebook was not great they still don't want to hear complaints only fanboy praise.

And things like calth are a good deal in comparison to other GW stuff but that alone does not make them good value.

Nothing they've done has made meaningful change, it's just token effort.

 Motograter wrote:
While the price is a bit much. How many khárn models is anyone gonna buy, one. Named character models are always more expensive. GW know you only need one and by now people should know that means gw will charge more. A lot of complaining over nothing. Don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved

How many monopose characters of any type anybody buys?

IG needs plenty of commisars but I'll be dead before I buy another monopose commisar. One is enough. Especially characters need to be better than monopose. Especially with these prices.

Why don't you just get 3-d party?

hobojebus wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I find it pretty disgusting myself, same price as a full squad to buy a plastic hero.

So much for roundtree turning things around.

"Oh look, they made start collecting, and BaC and Death Masque, but Kharn being 20 bucks more is too much! Damn you GW!"

Not to mention the improved community outreach, social media presence, etc. I don't get the mentality that a couple of things still being expensive invalidates every positive step they've made lately and somehow makes Rountree a 'false messiah'.

Creating an echo chamber on facebook was not great they still don't want to hear complaints only fanboy praise.

And things like calth are a good deal in comparison to other GW stuff but that alone does not make them good value.

Nothing they've done has made meaningful change, it's just token effort.

It's good value in GW's side of town, so that's all that matters. Unless you're gonna buy your space marines from privateer press, but I doubt that.

It's pretty meaningful. With all the box sets and the money you're saving for getting them it's at least a step on the right direction. Nothing will ever go down in price, but they will bundle it and save you like 80 bucks. It sounds like you already hate GW though, so no point arguing in defense for them.

koooaei wrote:Why don't you just get 3-d party?

Because 3 D printing looks like gak.

Nobody jumped to the defense of the admech player when the regular non character dominus came out at that price. Now its happening to you and its not fair. Everyone could have stood up for what is right and did not. Now all the clampacks are going to be like this. Its only going to get worse.

 Orock wrote:
Nobody jumped to the defense of the admech player when the regular non character dominus came out at that price. Now its happening to you and its not fair. Everyone could have stood up for what is right and did not. Now all the clampacks are going to be like this. Its only going to get worse.

Well there wasn't really anyone to jump to and defend since Ad Mech in 40k was new at the time - people accepted the price a little better because they had no preconceptions to what 40k Ad Mech should be priced at.

Now you take Kharn, an iconic character in the 40k universe, and make him £22. While I'll rectify my mistake that ImAGeek pointed out earlier, it's still a very high price point for a model that hasn't changed much between the new iteration and the classic model. I will say though that changing how Kharn looks would have been a bad idea, however they haven't added anything to him to make him more imposing on the battlefield like other HQ models - you'd only spot him because it's Kharn, if that makes sense. Then you look at the Techpriest Dominus, with his large model, crooked and characterful pose and bristling arsenal of weapons, cables and life support systems, and you start to see why people are a little miffed at Kharn's price, despite them being the same.

Yes, you're only going to buy one Kharn (probably) as with every other HQ, and yes he could be bigger than he looks (a common GW curse it seems when it comes to their models) but I don't reckon would walk away from a GW feeling satisfied with the price I paid for Kharn's sculpt compared to walking out with a Space Marine Librarian, Terminator Captain or Eldar Farseer.

G.A

Some people did talk about how absurd the Dominus Techpriest character was priced, it just wasn't something most people concerned themselves with because it was a new faction that few people played.

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I find it pretty disgusting myself, same price as a full squad to buy a plastic hero.

So much for roundtree turning things around.

"Oh look, they made start collecting, and BaC and Death Masque, but Kharn being 20 bucks more is too much! Damn you GW!"

Not to mention the improved community outreach, social media presence, etc. I don't get the mentality that a couple of things still being expensive invalidates every positive step they've made lately and somehow makes Rountree a 'false messiah'.

Creating an echo chamber on facebook was not great they still don't want to hear complaints only fanboy praise.

And things like calth are a good deal in comparison to other GW stuff but that alone does not make them good value.

Nothing they've done has made meaningful change, it's just token effort.

It's good value in GW's side of town, so that's all that matters. Unless you're gonna buy your space marines from privateer press, but I doubt that.

It's pretty meaningful. With all the box sets and the money you're saving for getting them it's at least a step on the right direction. Nothing will ever go down in price, but they will bundle it and save you like 80 bucks. It sounds like you already hate GW though, so no point arguing in defense for them.

koooaei wrote:Why don't you just get 3-d party?

Because 3 D printing looks like gak.

If things don't go down I price GW's decline will continue.

It's not just causing people to leave it's stopping new players joining, GW lost its virtual monopoly years ago it's been dethroned and needs to start taking competitors seriously which means pricing competitively.

hobojebus wrote:

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 ShieldBrother wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I find it pretty disgusting myself, same price as a full squad to buy a plastic hero.

So much for roundtree turning things around.

"Oh look, they made start collecting, and BaC and Death Masque, but Kharn being 20 bucks more is too much! Damn you GW!"

Not to mention the improved community outreach, social media presence, etc. I don't get the mentality that a couple of things still being expensive invalidates every positive step they've made lately and somehow makes Rountree a 'false messiah'.

Creating an echo chamber on facebook was not great they still don't want to hear complaints only fanboy praise.

And things like calth are a good deal in comparison to other GW stuff but that alone does not make them good value.

Nothing they've done has made meaningful change, it's just token effort.

It's good value in GW's side of town, so that's all that matters. Unless you're gonna buy your space marines from privateer press, but I doubt that.

It's pretty meaningful. With all the box sets and the money you're saving for getting them it's at least a step on the right direction. Nothing will ever go down in price, but they will bundle it and save you like 80 bucks. It sounds like you already hate GW though, so no point arguing in defense for them.

koooaei wrote:Why don't you just get 3-d party?

Because 3 D printing looks like gak.

If things don't go down I price GW's decline will continue.

It's not just causing people to leave it's stopping new players joining, GW lost its virtual monopoly years ago it's been dethroned and needs to start taking competitors seriously which means pricing competitively.

Kharn being expensive will not stop GW from doing well. If anybody isn't happy, they can create their own from the Berserker Marine kit and give him a fancy paint job. I don't understand what's wrong.