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Just out of curiosity (I never played this back in the day) how bad did Kan Wall used to be?

The reason I ask is I am still trying to wrap my head around the giant nerf that Kanz got with our new codex and the new rules that came about from 7th edition.

It used to be 35pts for a AV11/11/10 Kan that had 2 HP, BS3 WS2 and 2 attacks with a S10 DCCW. Of course a lot of people upgraded to the Grotzooka which I believe was a 10pt upgrade (might have been more or less I cant remember) so 45 points for the upgrade of a S6 AP5 Heavy 2 small blast weapon that had a max range of 18.

Today its 50pts for the same model but it now has S7 instead of S10 and has a special rule that basically makes them have morale issues. That is a pretty HEFTY points bump, so I have to ask; Were Kan walls that strong back in 5th and 6th edition that this nerf was needed or was this simply a case of GW's knee jerk reaction?

It really wasn't especially good but it's was kinda viable.

I suspect that they were nerfed because no one used regular ork dreads. Of course the correct fix would be to improve those rather than nerfing kanz.

Vehiclespam in general was very strong in 5th; that was before hull points, and the changeover from 4th to 5th took 'vehicle destroyed' off the damage table for glancing hits at the same time a lot of vehicles got cheaper.

Kan wall was a 5th edition thing and with 6th edition adding the whole hull point thing made it so Kans could be HP stripped to death very easily. Nerfing Kans in 7th was like digging up the dead horse that is nearly fully decomposed and kicking it some more.

I only played against it once, with a Salamander drop pod list, and don't see any way I could possibly have won the game.

Kan wall was my go to list for 4th and 5th. Only played a few variations of it. one was 9 Kans in 3 mobs then later 6 kans and a Deff Dread. Using the Old KFF I just walked up in the bubbles.
The old KFF made that much easier. At one point I was confident I could walk the board with no terrain like that and win.

My new Kan wall is some where around 3000+ points. But it's based on the Goff Kill mob, Dread mob and Da krusha Krew.
Planning to test it out next month. Orks are way better in large games now days.

Even in 5th you could handle kans, what troubled me was the fw megadread behind a forcefield.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I only played against it once, with a Salamander drop pod list, and don't see any way I could possibly have won the game.

Could you elaborate? Why was it so strong back in those editions vs your Salamander lists?

I'm guessing because destroyed results were harder to come by and shaken meant absolutely nothing to a melee walker (while weapon destroyed wasn't such a big deal either) and hull points didn't exist, so kans could suffer 10+ results on the damage table and if you rolled poorly, they just kept coming. Add that to the fact that he's dropping Marines into melee range with orks and you can see the issues.

 Drasius wrote:
I'm guessing because destroyed results were harder to come by and shaken meant absolutely nothing to a melee walker (while weapon destroyed wasn't such a big deal either) and hull points didn't exist, so kans could suffer 10+ results on the damage table and if you rolled poorly, they just kept coming. Add that to the fact that he's dropping Marines into melee range with orks and you can see the issues.

That is very true, granted in melee crack grenades could easily Penetrate the armor and at WS4 marines are doubling the Kanz WS so its easy hits, the difference is that S10 AP2 tends to eat marines up pretty well.

Well, I played one local tourney with a Killa Kan wall and won it (with ease). Then I sold the army. Too powerful.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
I'm guessing because destroyed results were harder to come by and shaken meant absolutely nothing to a melee walker (while weapon destroyed wasn't such a big deal either) and hull points didn't exist, so kans could suffer 10+ results on the damage table and if you rolled poorly, they just kept coming. Add that to the fact that he's dropping Marines into melee range with orks and you can see the issues.

That is very true, granted in melee crack grenades could easily Penetrate the armor and at WS4 marines are doubling the Kanz WS so its easy hits, the difference is that S10 AP2 tends to eat marines up pretty well.

Were krak grenades a thing back in 5th edition? I remember grenades just being assault/ defensive/ melta with no options to throw them.