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So the problem I am having is interpreting the template Wargamer: Fritz describes for a delayed gun line army into an actual list so I know what exactly the units would look like and compose of. I wrote down everything he said he has in his gun line army, but when he just lists off guns and a few other things, it's incredibly difficult to actually turn what he says into an actual list; and I would love to know what to buy and how to put together different units: so here is what I wrote.

6 lascannons; orders and vet squads I guess help them out
6 melta guns

2 battle cannons
5 heavy bolters
2 plasma cannons
3 autocannons
3 missile launchers
4 plasma guns

100+ lasguns
2 heavy stubbers
1 mortar
Flamers and heavy flamers

Delay –
3 groups of Stormtroopers with 2 melta or plasma guns

Conscripts with commissar

Back rank-
Vehicles: highest armor, have the most guns on it
2 to 3 russes: battle cannon, lascannon, 2 plasma cannons, heavy stubber

Now I know the battle cannons mean tanks, but how do I make an army list with just the number of guns?! If anyone can take this, and make it into a list like: platoon with six of this, another platoon with two of these, and a squad of however many of these; then you are gifted and my hero(es.) Thank you for taking the time to reed this and I hope you can give me a hand in giving me a list from all of this info. Have a fantastic day and take care! Thank you again!

1.) Fritz is cool
2.) It would probably help if you linked to his YouTube Video, so we can watch it and know what he and you are talking about
3.) Fritz is pretty big on ideas, but I don't know how effective they are.

At a glance, I don't know how you would get the plasma cannons, as heavy weapons teams can not take them.

I'd start from models or points rather than guns if I were you. There are too many possible ways to deploy a list of guns like that for any of us to recommend a specific list. I can tell you that twelve-ish heavy weapon teams imply two full platoons to me and the plasma cannons are available as sponsons for Russes of any variant.

1:I have never heard of him so I have no idea on what his idea of a ideal IG gunline is, and I might not be alone in this. Can you send me this grand plant of your spiritual liege "Frits" ? It would give you more usefull reactions

2: This doesn't really look like a decent IG gun line, or like an army list for that is worth. You might want to also supply us the following things: Army points you are aiming at, the "rules" you are building your army with ( I guess only infantry if I look at your list ??), an actual Battlescribe summarized printout if you want to go into list specifics.


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and don't underestimate the use of priests, orders and psykers they can really be good force multipliers.

Wargamer Fritz is a Youtuber who does a lot of 40K videos.

I love the reminders of youtube : D. I actually watched one of his videos once it was on orks. Youtube suggested it to me, I did not like it at all. His intro was 2/3 of the video, and full with nonsense like " the current edition is the golden age of 40k". And then his advice was just, be prepared to lose or play narrative games. Yay.... What a waste of the 9 minutes. But sure I'll give him an other try.


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I found the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SB8_lbECJ4

Lets hope that these 19 minutes are at least amusing.

He's got plasma cannons and lascannons on bog standard russes.

I'm already skeptical as to the quality of the advice he is giving and I haven't even started the video.

Prepare for a more in depth reply in half an hour I guess

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Wow, ok, I don't know where to start with this.

Let me just preface with this. I've not played competitive 40k in 3 years, and even I can tell you he's doing it wrong. Oldzoggy covers most of it but I'll add a few things.


First, realize that any list you build off this guy's idea is not going to be stomping face at the local club. I can get away with this stuff because my new group is super casual, but even there infantry IG hurts. This will not be beating the hardcore lists that are in vogue right now, or Eldar.

Second, certain things in his list, like the above mentioned bizarrely outfitted Leman Russes, bring into question the soundness of what he's using on his units. For IG, you have 5 infantry weapons that are worth a damn in the game. They are Plasma guns, Melta Guns, Autocannons, Lascannons, and sometimes flamers. Lascannons and Flamers require planning to use correctly, but are still usable. When he's got random things like a single mortar, missile launchers, and random heavy stubbers on tanks firing ordnance weapons, it makes me wonder what exactly he's fitting these units out to do. More guns =/= Better. For example, you can outfit your army with three times as many grenade launchers as I can Plasma rifles, and guess what, mine will be better at pretty much anything with all other variables roughly the same. IG rely heavily on keeping units slim and building them with a job in mind. Throwing random junk on them just hurts them in the long run.

Third, no matter how much gunline firepower you have, you still have to take objectives. Usually guardsmen and conscripts will not be the answer for this. Reason why is infantry moves a guaranteed 7" a turn, IF you don't shoot (or get off the fire and run order) So, if we assume your guardsmen are lined up on the furthest point of deployment, take no casualties (from the front) and don't shoot (you are guard, you are shooting) hit no difficult terrain, and had the objective directly across from the unit in a straight line, you're looking at 4 turns realistically to get across. This ignores casualties, bad rolls, having to shoot instead of run, impassable terrain, and any other shenanigans.

/rant

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Now, onto how you'd actually build a list along the lines of something like this. I've been tooling around on Battlescribe at 1750pts and got a rough outline of what you would be looking at.

2 conscript squads means 2 platoons. So odds are something like 20 man conscript units apiece and 20 man platoons with autocannons and some sort of special weapon.

probably a platoon of stormtroopers, a 50/50 split of units with melta and plasma should work (make sure to use your stormtrooper command squad's 4 weapons)

x4 vet squads rocking plasma and lascannons, preferably with carapace or camo cloaks.

Russes are a bit rough as his setup actively screws itself over every time it fires. Either run plain russes, Punishers kitted out with as many high ROF weapons as you can fit on it, or Executioners with as many AP 2 weapons you can fit on it.

As for HQ, use the relics that help with orders (the tactical autoreliquary and the cane work pretty well) and Regimental standards are mandatory for morale issues.


This is a very rough guideline but it'll at least give you an idea of where you would start with trying to make a list like that.

General comments
- This video is released in the end of 6th but he seems to be stuck in 5th, the video was already dated when it was released and full of really bad ideas. Do not listen to this video for advice.

Specifics
- Gun lining isn't hard its simple and a rather dull tactic
- A list that aims and succeed to table your opponent in turn 3 is a good way to lose friends in my opinion. But don't worry IG will not be able to do this see next.
- NO MENTION OF ORDERS AT ALL when going into IG gunlines ........ : |
- IG being the best at it is total nonsense -> go for tau
- LASCANNONS as ideal anti tank weapons in 2013 what is this guy smoking?!
- His "delay wave" portion of the list is ehm how do you call it hilarious ? Footslogging expensive elite guards with melta guns, will not delay your opponent they will just be a waste of points
-You don't need a tons of guns on your vehicle for it to be good. Cramping your vehicles with guns in general and especially if some of them are ordnance is a waste of points. You need vehicles that are hyper effective like wyverens or things that act like them such as earth shaker cannon artillery or at least vehicles that are able to shoot all the guns you put on them at full potential. Also mixing types of guns on something that can't split fire is bad. You don't want your anti vehicle guns to be force to shoot at the same targets as your anti horde guns.
-His idea for his low point efficient guard gunline build to be able to run up to half of the board to capture objectives is ehm... amusing.


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If you wan't some decent guards advice ask the forum and read this: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Guard(7E)
The quality of 1d4 chan articles changes from moment to moment, but beats fritz with ease an at least it doesn't urge you to play out questionable 5th IG tactics.

Well seeing how most of us are not in agreement with Fritz' idea of a gunline army..... what would you say to be an okay gunline list for IG at say... 1750 pts? Or better yet...

What would be a decent IG army at 1750pts.... but only troops? That's right. NO VEHICLES. WE WANNA GO FULL FOOT-SLOGGIN', BOYZ!

Think you guys can pull that off? (I love gigantic, overwhelming hordes of guard to drown my enemies in blood)

Can it be done? Yes
Will it take you years to finish your army? Yes
Wil it be hyper effective or even be able to stand ground vs the more powerfull 7th builds? Na not really. Hordes are bad in 7th and IG isn't the best codex out there.
Will it be fun for you? who knows but I like the idea of you trying what you like to build.
Note 7th meal storm missions are kinda tailored to screw static gunline armies. Just so you know.

The trick to cheat your rules / pull it off is to use FW artillery. They aren't vehicles and most of them are T7 and more point efficient than IG vehicles.

Look for optimizing the use of orders.

Use priests if you want to tarpit, 25 points for fearless + other bufffs is a steal.

I don't know if they are any good but there are some insane foot sloggers only IG formations, that are usually discarded because whell they require 100+'s of guys. You might want to look at those.


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One other thing to notice is that there are also other "codex" options for this type of list if you are looking into the FW stuff. This might be worth looking at before you are making this huge investment in time and money.

-Krieg lists
-Renegade guards lists
- 30k Militia and Cults
- 30k Solar Auxilia


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And take a serious look at the fortifications, some of them will really enhance your troopers lifespan for only a small point cost.

Yeaaah... His advice would've been okay in 5th. A Knight list or anything with a lot of MCs/GMCs will hard counter it. If you want good advice for how to build a food army check out the tactics section of DakkaDakka. But here are some pointers:

Don't festoon your vehicles with every upgrade possilbe. They will die or get crew shaken. No exceptions. Outfit yout vehicles carefully with a specific job in mind.

LRBTs can't kill much since cover saves, invuln, FNP and just plain spacing will negate it's firepower. Plus the awful ordnance rules also nullifies the Leman Russ's chief advantage of being able to take a lot of guns. Generally speaking with Guard if it has the Ordnance USR it is probably underpowered and overpriced.

Guard out in the open will die in droves and break easily. So, if you need them to cap objectives consider either attaching a priest tto make sure they get there and bring a lot of bodies or use mechvets. I would say mechvets are somewhat more competitive than blob guard due to increased mobility, firepower and a degree of resilience.

Fast attack choices are mostly worthless with the exception of the Vendetta and the Vulture. The Vendetta isn't the powerhouse it used to be, though.

Guard doesn't have an elite choices section. Statements to the contrary are heresy and should be reported to your local commissar.

Contary to Fritz's commentary there is a laundry list of things that -can- beat S9. That is why you need to take a lot of it. Lascannons are good but only in numbers. A good rule of thumb is that you will need 3 Lascannons to deal one wound/hp.

Don't forget allies! Inquisitors used to be a god send to guard. While that is not necessarily true anymore they are still a solid choice for buffing your guard. Knights also make good allies too. Or, should I say guard make good allies for knights?

Okay, so you want to run a delayed Gunline list? Well firstly, forget everything Fritz has said. Everything. No, do not remember, Forget. It. All.

Firstly, you will need Infantry. A lot of them. 2 Platoons of 5 sections and 3 Veteran sections. Give the Veterans either three Melta's or three Plasma guns each and Carapace, but leave the Platoon units (baring the Command - give them a standard) barebones.
Your Platoons are your delay/meatshield units and your Veteran units are your objective grabbers(more on that later).

Next you want some back bench support. A squadron of naked Leman Russ Battle Tanks and a squadron of Exterminators with sponson Heavy Bolters. Finally, take a battery of three Wyverns and give them camo gear. These are your heavy hitters, can openers and infantry killers.

Now for fast attack
You will want three Valkyries. Remember those Veterans? They go in the Valkyries.

Finally bring a Company Command Section for your HQ and add on a Master of the Fleet to add that vital +1 to your reserve rolls. Buy the Carapace, Medic and Standard upgrades too, and get them a Chimera - you want this unit to be around for a long time.

If you have any points left over then feel free to purchase some Storm trooper platoons. Whilst they are over priced and largely under performing you can get some good results if you use them well and they do DS, so that counts too.

So, how does this army work? Well, for a start the only things on the board at the start are your tanks, Wyverns, platoons and command section in chimera. Everything should be in cover, but if it is limited then prioritise: Command section's chimera, Wyverns, everything else.
You then lay down a blistering barrage of fire. The Exterminators concentrate on transports and crack them open, then your Wyverns bombard the living gak out of the passengers. Your command sections should primarily be issuing orders to keep your troops down or FRFSRF, anything else is a waste.
When your valks enter, fly them straight on and drop the Veterans off on the objectives, the same thing goes for any Stormtrooper units. The Valks should then jink around the board and capture objectives (they can because they are transports).

It is by no means the best army the Guar can run, but it does what you want it to and it is far better than Fritz's list.

Platoon standards do not give morale rerolls, don't bother with that.

Also I'd consider at least throwing autocannons on the platoon squads so they have something to do.

On top of that, you'll need priests in order to keep those units around.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Platoon standards do not give morale rerolls, don't bother with that.

Also I'd consider at least throwing autocannons on the platoon squads so they have something to do.

On top of that, you'll need priests in order to keep those units around.

Ah, that was my bad. Shows how long it is since I used platoons

Anyway, yes to the priests, that will make those platoons really, really, hard to shift.