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Just came back from awhile off and my dream army has always been a Chaos/IG army, where the bulk of the army is an Imperial Guard force and a small elite Cadre of CSM that have sort of enslaved/cocerced a PDF force to serve them under threat of death/torture.

I noticed in the new ally matrix Chaos and IG are now "Come The Apocalypse" which is sad as it sort of kills the army I wanted (and Cultists are super lame). How steep are the penalties exactly? (Rulebook is in the mail). Is there another list/book/dex (possibly FW?) that would allow this?

IIRC They cant be within some inchs away otherwise they need to roll a dice to see if they do a thing.

also they dont have objective secured which isnt really much a handy cap.

you could always just get the renegade book from forgeworld which is exactly what you want.

 Desubot wrote:
IIRC They cant be within some inchs away otherwise they need to roll a dice to see if they do a thing.

also they dont have objective secured which isnt really much a handy cap.

you could always just get the renegade book from forgeworld which is exactly what you want.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Volume-Thirteen-War-Machines-of-the-Lost-and-the-Damned

This book here? So it has IG style rules and allows you to play normal CSM as well?

I'd recomend the Renegades and Heretics list which provides you with a "Mortal" Chaos followers army list that have loads customization in what you can do with them.

For an overview of what they are and what they have available;
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Renegades_and_Heretics(7E)


For their rules and the rules for FW Chaos Vehicles;
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Volume-Thirteen-War-Machines-of-the-Lost-and-the-Damned


EDIT: You beat me to the Link, but yes, that book. Also as Chaos they are "Battle Brothers" with CSM for Allies and with the Covenant of Slaanesh on your HQ you get access to a squad of Noise Marines.

kpatterson14206 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
IIRC They cant be within some inchs away otherwise they need to roll a dice to see if they do a thing.

also they dont have objective secured which isnt really much a handy cap.

you could always just get the renegade book from forgeworld which is exactly what you want.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Volume-Thirteen-War-Machines-of-the-Lost-and-the-Damned

This book here? So it has IG style rules and allows you to play normal CSM as well?

Sort of. You need the CSM book in addition and you use the Allies rules in the core book to field both together, but they are treated as Battle-Brothers (best level of allies) so the only downside is needing compulsory HQ/Troops for both.

They are alive and kicking just check the major tournament results renegade guards are good. Also there is a 30k renegade list that's even more fun due to the modelling opportunities it creates.

IA13 is where its all at for Renegade Guard.

Chaos and IG is Come the Apocalyse, but when playing friendly games I belive your opponent will agree to play them as Battle Brothers, if you have nice and stylised army.

Or play them as Renegades and heretics, as has been mentioned earlier.

Consider Siege of Vraks.

and Cultists are super lame

There are a couple of ways of seriously improving cultists, by the way:

1) Khorne Daemonkin cultists are more expensive, but get (in addition to the Mark Of Khorne, obviously) Blood For The Blood God, letting them use the Blood Tithe gifts......theoretically racking up furious charge, or (in extreme cases with the Blood Cult) furious charge and +1 attack. People who dismiss cultists as "oh, they're lame" tend to get a nasty shock when a unit of eight delivers 41 S4 attacks on the charge (the same as a full squad of chosen!)

2) The Helbrute Dataslate. The Helcult is 2 units of cultists and a Helbrute that the cultists have apparently decided is god (don't ask). This makes the cultists fearless as long as the Helbrute is alive - and if it gets killed, they then gain Hatred to boot - as well as providing the Helbrute with a 3+ cover save if they're in the way. Big fearless cultist units are nice bubble-wrap, and (unlike a dark apostle) there's no range restriction and you don't lose it to an ill-advised challenge or focused witchfire.

3) The Traitor's Hate formation has a dark apostle and loads of cultist units which respawn with outflank on a 4+ when killed.

Take the plunge to the iA list. It is exactly what you want, and I've yet to find someone who minds playing against my renegades as they are so close to ig everyone unddrstsmds the rules.