Black Crusade - Traitors Hate (spoilers)

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**Tiger9gamer**

jifel wrote:
I mean, leading a warhound into the fire of 3 Lord of Skulls doesn't upset me at all, that's a reasonable kill.

Jumping onto a reaver and killing the crew after carving his way through the armor? That's a little more... would like to think there's a few skitarii with plasma weapons inside for this sort of thing.

I know, right? It isn't as if there is a Whole entire unit type designed to Defend the Titan

**BrianDavion**

godardc wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
biggest problem I feel with the 13th black crusade being a win or a loss is suddenly then cadians are an endangerd species... who are the plastic IG? yeah... opps

Which, once again, demonstrates why an advancing timeline in a participatory setting is a terrible, awful, abysmal idea. You're never not going to be pissing one group of fans or another off, or undermining your own product range, or writing yourself into inescapable corners. And the moment you try and address those problems, you just piss off a different, mutually-opposed group of fans who'll either be angry at the way your Deus Ex Durpadurp cacks on their favourite bit to save someone else's, or that you're mitigating the result at all since they always wanted to see huge, drastic, sweeping changes.

I just don't get how GW can have this so back-asswards - you use the modern period as the set-stage, a static set of plot points that players can use as a tool to write their own stories with or as a backdrop for their battles, and you satisfy the segment of the fanbase that wants a constant stream of "official" story to follow along with using the vast, gaping, barely-defined 10,000 year history gap where you can go as nuts as you like providing that it's vaguely plausible that after all's said & done the modern setting could be a plausible outcome. Crikey they've gotten how many campaign books and models and novels out of the Heresy, and that's one short event, GW could pump out "historical" campaign books for 40K for a century and still have whole fictional millennia left over, it's baffling to me why they gamble with the existing setting for the sake of a couple of years' worth of Black Crusade 13 - No Really This Time It's Totes Personal Fo Reals releases.

Totally agree. I can't and won't ever understand this. They are just beggining a whole new books series about The Beast, so this proves they are aware of all the potential the 10 thousands years offers. But they still focus on the 13th Black Crusade they aren't really able to do correctly (read as: destroying the Cadian Gate, etc).

hell they could go back and cover other black crusades. I mean the 12th black crusade has been detailed on a naval level but we've heard VERY little about the ground battles

**Iracundus**

Not every race has 10,000 years to work with. You are only looking at this from the perspective of the Imperium or older races.

Necrons only became active and really on the Imperium's radar from Sanctuary 101 onwards, which was about 897.M41. The Tyranids only first appeared with Tyran, again only in the last several centuries. Ditto for the Tau. So all those claims of let's stay forever in the distant past, would really mean locking out all players of Necrons, Tyranids, and Tau forever or forcing them to play as "stand-in" surrogates of their races, which then have to somehow be plot-waved to either never make a difference or to somehow go back to dormancy.

That is why the timeline has to advance. It gives room for the races which have already jam packed timelines room to develop new stories and background without causing more continuity problems.

**JimOnMars**

Why would we want a campaign where we know the outcome? We know Terra stays safe, so Chaos and Xenos must be the loser.

**BrianDavion**

JimOnMars wrote:
Why would we want a campaign where we know the outcome? We know Terra stays safe, so Chaos and Xenos must be the loser.

... really? really? you;d only count total and utter conquest as winning conditions for chaos and or xenos?

**JimOnMars**

BrianDavion wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Why would we want a campaign where we know the outcome? We know Terra stays safe, so Chaos and Xenos must be the loser.

... really? really? you;d only count total and utter conquest as winning conditions for chaos and or xenos?

Yep. Chaos and Xenos do.

I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

**BrianDavion**

JimOnMars wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Why would we want a campaign where we know the outcome? We know Terra stays safe, so Chaos and Xenos must be the loser.

... really? really? you;d only count total and utter conquest as winning conditions for chaos and or xenos?
Yep. Chaos and Xenos do.

I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

well gee then by that standard the IoM has never won eaither because they've not wiped out the orks, chaos etc.

**godardc**

JimOnMars wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Why would we want a campaign where we know the outcome? We know Terra stays safe, so Chaos and Xenos must be the loser.

... really? really? you;d only count total and utter conquest as winning conditions for chaos and or xenos?
Yep. Chaos and Xenos do.

I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

I enjoy The Horus Heresy, even if I know how it ends.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

JimOnMars wrote:
I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

Spoiler:

Now with that taken care of, we can get back to historical events.

**Lord Blackscale**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Is Kharn's axe possessed? Must be incredibly strong to cut through that armour.

Well.. it has Amorbane... It Is made for killing machines. As for the plasma wielding skitari guards, Kharn has plasma as well, and there are no guards in the head/control room thing.

**Slayer le boucher**

Kharn(and others WE) allready did it in the Betrayer book...

**JamesY**

Motograter wrote:
What surprises me is after bringing out crimson slaughter book and pushing them as the face of chaos in one single engagement they have been reduced to Kranon, a helbrute and 15 marines. Lol I was fully expecting Kranon, 6 chosen, helbrute and 20 cultists. Considering how this is written its amazing they didn't go with that lol

I thought Kranon's head ended up in Balthazaar's footlocker back on The Rock

**Grimskul**

JamesY wrote:
Motograter wrote:
What surprises me is after bringing out crimson slaughter book and pushing them as the face of chaos in one single engagement they have been reduced to Kranon, a helbrute and 15 marines. Lol I was fully expecting Kranon, 6 chosen, helbrute and 20 cultists. Considering how this is written its amazing they didn't go with that lol

I thought Kranon's head ended up in Balthazaar's footlocker back on The Rock

Supposedly they retconned it to being a prophesy of Kranon having his head chopped off by the Dark Angels instead rather than it actually happening.

**Sarouan**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

Spoiler:

Everybody dies. THE END.

Now with that taken care of, we can get back to historical events.

Historical events like the Horus Heresy?

Spoiler:

I feel the same than my other fellows wanting to know "what happens next". Horus Heresy is a nice story, but describing battles in the "past" of 40k universe is always feeling like it is already played.

I, for myself, do not enjoy playing battles that already happened. There is, to me, absolutely no point. That's why I would rather like reading a story that actually make some progress on the timeline.

I think there's place for both to coexist.

**TheCustomLime**

Gamgee wrote:
A Tau hero the tank commander one shot a Titan with a Hammerhead Railgun. Hahah. Shadowsun, Darkstrider, and Farsight all have Imperial assassin kill under their belt.

Now Kharn wrecks this much? I can't take titans or assassins seriously anymore.

All other Imperial factions only serve to make the Space Marines look good. So has it been since the dawn of the Imperium, so shall it be until it's demise.

**BrianDavion**

Sarouan wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
I want to know what happens "now," not what happened to get us here.

Spoiler:

Everybody dies. THE END.

Now with that taken care of, we can get back to historical events.

Historical events like the Horus Heresy?

Spoiler:

The Emperor won against Horus. THE END.

I feel the same than my other fellows wanting to know "what happens next". Horus Heresy is a nice story, but describing battles in the "past" of 40k universe is always feeling like it is already played.

I, for myself, do not enjoy playing battles that already happened. There is, to me, absolutely no point. That's why I would rather like reading a story that actually make some progress on the timeline.

I think there's place for both to coexist.

thing about the Heresy is that it's been there for ages so we know how it turns out but the epic battle between the Ultramarines and the forces of chaos for Port Maedupp during the 8th black crusade, you'd have no idea of the outcome sure you know that the Ultramarines don't get DESTROYED, but it's entirely possiable that they could have lost the battle and suffered heavy losses because "of the tatical inflexability of Chapter master so and so"

**Motograter**

JamesY wrote:
Motograter wrote:
What surprises me is after bringing out crimson slaughter book and pushing them as the face of chaos in one single engagement they have been reduced to Kranon, a helbrute and 15 marines. Lol I was fully expecting Kranon, 6 chosen, helbrute and 20 cultists. Considering how this is written its amazing they didn't go with that lol

I thought Kranon's head ended up in Balthazaar's footlocker back on The Rock

Well GW must have changed their mind yet again. They really don't care about chaos fluff or chaos actually. Kranon is very much alive in this book and at the end