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Ouch... I was looking for the cheapest way to fill out that Core so I can get to those Aux formations.

Quick question, in the ITC, is there anything to stop me taking a storm lance Demi company (white scars) with a lucifer task force and orbital intervention force?

 Gunzhard wrote:
The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at? Are Vanguards really worth using for BA? ...I've seriously never used them.

They might be if you take Dante for no scatter, re-rolling first turn reserves...

 Gunzhard wrote:

 maku wrote:
Here are the 2 detachment scans for Angel's Blade.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm super happy about these detachment options compared to the Baal Strike Force I've been playing this year.
That being said, I'm a fresh eyed noob, but hardcore hobbyist. I have yet to see the OPness of Space Marines Gladius, or the Eldar, as my local group mostly consists of other Xenos and an unbound Grey Knights tfg (shudder).
Nor do I know how great it would be to get free points and how terrible it would be to losing (haven't seen concrete scans yet) objective secured.

The Angel's Blade Strike Force detachment with the Archangels Demi-Company as its core, lets me field 5 units of jump pack Vanguards without the need of Tactical Marines which is sweet.

I'll most likely be fielding the Death Company Detachment with the Orbital Intervention Force and work my way up building a Lucifer Armoured Task Force

Baal Strike Force detachment is still around as well!

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at? Are Vanguards really worth using for BA? ...I've seriously never used them.

The same points that you can run a Gladius Strike Force at?

It's a Battle Demi-Company or the Archangels bit. You're looking at an HQ, 3x Tactical Squads, a Fast Attack choice(Bikers, Scout Bikers, or Assault Marines) and a Heavy Support choice(Devastators).

It's not as bad as you might be thinking.

I don't believe it is a bad thing - I just want to be able to fit the Orbit Inven Force into an 1850 list.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The same points that you can run a Gladius Strike Force at?

It's a Battle Demi-Company or the Archangels bit. You're looking at an HQ, 3x Tactical Squads, a Fast Attack choice(Bikers, Scout Bikers, or Assault Marines) and a Heavy Support choice(Devastators).

It's not as bad as you might be thinking.

I don't disagree, but unlike the Gladius, the Captain/Command Squad or Chaplain/Furioso aren't optional - so the BA demi-company has to take more mandatory units than the SM equivalent.

So it's an HQ, Command Squad or Furioso, 3x Tactical Squads, a Fast Attack choice, a Heavy Support choice and a normal Dreadnought. At a minimum that's an extra 250-300 points.

tkni wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The same points that you can run a Gladius Strike Force at?

It's a Battle Demi-Company or the Archangels bit. You're looking at an HQ, 3x Tactical Squads, a Fast Attack choice(Bikers, Scout Bikers, or Assault Marines) and a Heavy Support choice(Devastators).

It's not as bad as you might be thinking.

I don't disagree, but unlike the Gladius, the Captain/Command Squad or Chaplain/Furioso aren't optional - so the BA demi-company has to take more mandatory units than the SM equivalent.

The Captain is optional in BA. It can still be Captain OR Chaplain.
The Command Squad is mandatory, or it can be a Furioso Dreadnought.
Then there's a mandatory normal Dreadnought.

I'd feel a bit more sympathetic if it were mandatory 10 man Tactical Squads, but it still isn't.

Yeah, I tried to clarify that a little above. It's still two additional mandatory units.

There are still some nice ways to play this (esp at 2000+), but it's just a little odd, given its redundant formation bonuses, that a bare BA demi is 630pts while a bare SM demi is only 440.

tkni wrote:
Yeah, I tried to clarify that a little above. It's still two additional mandatory units.

There are still some nice ways to play this (esp at 2000+), but it's just a little odd, given its redundant formation bonuses, that a bare BA demi is 630pts while a bare SM demi is only 440.

I'd argue that the bare SM demi is cheaper because look at the associated Auxiliaries for SM.
10th Company Task Force(3-5 units of Scouts or Scout Bikers), 1st Company Task Force(3 units of Terminators, Sternguard, or Vanguard Veterans), Storm Wing(Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons), Armoured Task Force(Techmarine, 0-3 units of TFCs, 3-5 units of Vindicators, Predators, or Whirlwinds and 0-1 Sergeant Chronus), AA Defense Force(1 unit of Hunters and 1 unit of Stalkers; mandatory 2 Stalkers), Suppression Force(unit of Land Speeders and Whirlwinds consisting of at least 2 models), Centurion Siegebreaker Cohort(2-4 Centurion Assault Squads and 1 unit of Ironclad Dreadnoughts), and Land Raider Spearhead(3 units of any Land Raiders).
All are solid formations with a pretty hefty buy-in.

Look at the associated Blood Angels ones. Two of them(the Rapid Assault Force and Fire Support Force) can be single choices of Devastator, Vindicator, or Whirlwind Squads(Fire Support Force) or Assault, Bike, Attack Bike, or Land Speeder Squads(Rapid Assault Force).

Kinda makes a bit more sense why the initial buy-in for the mandatory Core is cheaper now doesn't it?

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

 Gunzhard wrote:

 maku wrote:
Here are the 2 detachment scans for Angel's Blade.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm super happy about these detachment options compared to the Baal Strike Force I've been playing this year.
That being said, I'm a fresh eyed noob, but hardcore hobbyist. I have yet to see the OPness of Space Marines Gladius, or the Eldar, as my local group mostly consists of other Xenos and an unbound Grey Knights tfg (shudder).
Nor do I know how great it would be to get free points and how terrible it would be to losing (haven't seen concrete scans yet) objective secured.

The Angel's Blade Strike Force detachment with the Archangels Demi-Company as its core, lets me field 5 units of jump pack Vanguards without the need of Tactical Marines which is sweet.

I'll most likely be fielding the Death Company Detachment with the Orbital Intervention Force and work my way up building a Lucifer Armoured Task Force

Baal Strike Force detachment is still around as well!

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at? Are Vanguards really worth using for BA? ...I've seriously never used them.

Only in archangel sanguine wing.

My FLGS is already selling some Angel's Blade.
Is this even allowed ?

 Leth wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look. Blood Angels got their whole Death Company army back.

I promise I won't mention Chaos Legions as a comparison.

On the plus side Chaos players never have to buy glue since they keep beating that dead horse!!!

Only cyanoacrylate works for Finecast.

 godardc wrote:
My FLGS is already selling some Angel's Blade.
Is this even allowed ?

Sounds like they're breaking street date.

 EnTyme wrote:

 godardc wrote:
My FLGS is already selling some Angel's Blade.
Is this even allowed ?

Sounds like they're breaking street date.

Sounds like Heresy.

 maku wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 godardc wrote:
My FLGS is already selling some Angel's Blade.
Is this even allowed ?

Sounds like they're breaking street date.

Sounds like Heresy.

When all you have is an Inquisitor, everything looks like heresy.

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'd argue that the bare SM demi is cheaper because look at the associated Auxiliaries for SM.
10th Company Task Force(3-5 units of Scouts or Scout Bikers), 1st Company Task Force(3 units of Terminators, Sternguard, or Vanguard Veterans), Storm Wing(Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons), Armoured Task Force(Techmarine, 0-3 units of TFCs, 3-5 units of Vindicators, Predators, or Whirlwinds and 0-1 Sergeant Chronus), AA Defense Force(1 unit of Hunters and 1 unit of Stalkers; mandatory 2 Stalkers), Suppression Force(unit of Land Speeders and Whirlwinds consisting of at least 2 models), Centurion Siegebreaker Cohort(2-4 Centurion Assault Squads and 1 unit of Ironclad Dreadnoughts), and Land Raider Spearhead(3 units of any Land Raiders).
All are solid formations with a pretty hefty buy-in.

Look at the associated Blood Angels ones. Two of them(the Rapid Assault Force and Fire Support Force) can be single choices of Devastator, Vindicator, or Whirlwind Squads(Fire Support Force) or Assault, Bike, Attack Bike, or Land Speeder Squads(Rapid Assault Force).

Kinda makes a bit more sense why the initial buy-in for the mandatory Core is cheaper now doesn't it?

You could even extend that to the single-model Librarian and Priest formations. But I'm still bit, well, meh.

If I were interested in utilising the 'blank' formation auxs in that way, unless I wanted a shed-load of HQs, I'd likely just take a BSF instead for the extra flexibility and lower troop tax. There's little a BDC + blank Aux can run that can't be replicated in a single BSF.

I think once you pass a certain points level, the ABSF w BDC can become very fun. I mean, I've a scratch list w/ 2 Librarians and 2 Priests and a whole ton of jump marines using both. But at lower points levels - I'm lucky enough to usually run 2000+ lists, so optimisation probably isn't my forte - it just seems a bit 'clunky' to me.

Alright I've been told that our assault marines have been terribly nerfed: as a matter of fact, even though they are now allowed to take the eviscerator (who the hell care?) they no longer can select a free pod as dedicated transport.

Yup. They're costed like normal ASM now - so the meltacide pod loadout now costs 20 points more than it used to.

So is the chapter ancients formation worth it?

Banbaji wrote:

 maku wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 godardc wrote:
My FLGS is already selling some Angel's Blade.
Is this even allowed ?

Sounds like they're breaking street date.

Sounds like Heresy.

When all you have is an Inquisitor, everything looks like heresy.

I think the Inquisitor steps in only on the "big" releases. The stores I frequent get calls from their sales reps proclaiming lightning and thunder from the Gods if major releases are sold ahead of time, like Calth, Silver Tower, etc. The minor stuff like codex, weekly models, White Dwarf, lots of places just stick on the shelf when the get them (which is a day or two before the Saturday). I don't think it's the end of the world -- especially since it's all leaked before then anyhow


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 commander dante wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
Hmm that is an interesting build, I do love flamers - but that probably makes them crazy expensive.

420 points for a squad of 10 with jump packs

lol that's a bit crazy

Price of a good knight Or a WK + hero!

 RedFox wrote:
So is the chapter ancients formation worth it?

If Librarian dreads could charge after using the Wings of Sanguinas power, I'd use it in a heartbeat as an ally.

 RedFox wrote:
So is the chapter ancients formation worth it?

Not too regularly in an Angel's Blade, I'd wager. Both core choices already have 1-2 mandatory dreads, so unless you were planning on 5-6+ in your list... Also, I'm pretty sure the formation special rule isn't available the turn they arrive from deep strike, if that's how you're gonna bring them in.

That said, as a standalone, maybe? 2-3 rifleman dreads that can shoot twice and a libby dread for rip and tear might be fun.

tkni wrote:
Yup. They're costed like normal ASM now - so the meltacide pod loadout now costs 20 points more than it used to.

True. But now we have everything normal ASMs have, plus more. Like 3 more choices of special weapons. Not to mention 2 more pistol choices.

Yay. Pistol choices.

 th3maninblak wrote:

tkni wrote:
Yup. They're costed like normal ASM now - so the meltacide pod loadout now costs 20 points more than it used to.

True. But now we have everything normal ASMs have, plus more. Like 3 more choices of special weapons. Not to mention 2 more pistol choices.

It's easy to complain either way, though. Normal ASMs are pretty sucky, while old codex ASMs were reasonably good because of the free pod. On the other hand, old codex ASMs, even with the free pod, weren't really winning games except against very specific armies, and against people who weren't very good.

Like, it's not that we lost a superb army by having cheap meltacide pods cost a little more (though they're easy to play...). But what we got for ASM is probably less useful.

Still, overall, the supplement is a pretty big plus IMO. DC got a huge boost (remember how many people complained that DC couldn't be used as troops anymore?), mech got a great buff, some of the formations look like they'll be fun to at least try out, and who knows what interesting psyker combos we'll come up with given some time.

I like the idea of the Rapid Assault Force with the Lost Brotherhood. That free 6in of movement seems kinda awesome.

 Talys wrote:

It's easy to complain either way, though. Normal ASMs are pretty sucky, while old codex ASMs were reasonably good because of the free pod. On the other hand, old codex ASMs, even with the free pod, weren't really winning games except against very specific armies, and against people who weren't very good.

Like, it's not that we lost a superb army by having cheap meltacide pods cost a little more (though they're easy to play...). But what we got for ASM is probably less useful.

I suspect the fact we can spam Priests again may come in handy in furthering their utility...

So, correct me if I'm mistaken, but the way I'm reading the leaked Assault Marine datasheet, you could build the following squad (hypothetical to see if this works):

5x Assault Marines w/ Jump Packs

1x Sergeant w/ a combi-melta
2x Assault Marines w/ Meltaguns
1x Assault Marine w/ Evicerator
1x Assault Marine w/ Chainsword & Bolt Pistol.

Comes to 140 points. You could go with an Inferno Pistol instead of the Combi-Melta for 145 points on the sergeant if you don't mind the range shortage (a negligible difference in cost). Of if you want to go gunslinger, 160 points for 4x melta shots (at least out to 6", anyway)

If so, That would be quite the fun squad to run with. A little expensive perhaps, but mobile, and with a hidden chainfist in the squad too for the odd AP:2 swing or two if charging.

I may build my assault squad like this. We'll see. Looks like a fun way to run them and give the squad a little bit of extra help if they make it to melee.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Unless it's changed, you take either a special weapon or an eviscerator as a special weapon choice.