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Just a quick one.
I was just drooling over the new Realm of Battle Mars Pattern Imperialis Landing Pad and how I might integrate that into larger terrain piece with support stuctures and Munitorium Armoured Containers.
But my mind goes everywhere else on the subject and I end up brooding on the issue of container transport and how they would get to the landing pad.

First thing that comes to mind is the Valkyre Skytalon, but it sort of doesn't feel right. I haven't got either of the parts at hand so it is difficult to actually compare scales.
Any opinions on the subject? (I haven't been into the WH40K lore for over 10 years...)


(I'm naturally thinking of combining the Skytalon and the containers and have that at hand for potential photo scenes.)

OJJ

MUNITORUM ARMOURED CONTAINER TRANSPORT!

*cough*

Valkyres are military craft. I doubt they'd use them for transporting containers.
I'd think they'd use simple cargo hauling equipment... Heavy servitors are used in several books. Cranes to lift them around.
I do not know the scale, but if you'd have to use a existing model - maybe an Arvus Lighter could be the closest match. Could mag lock the things to it's underside.

in some of the books they mention stuff like cargo 9 shuttles, and other not massive but bigger cargo haulling craft that are civilian or lightly armed.

nothing military, just cargo haulers.

 Thairne wrote:
MUNITORUM ARMOURED CONTAINER TRANSPORT!

*cough*

Valkyres are military craft. I doubt they'd use them for transporting containers.
I'd think they'd use simple cargo hauling equipment... Heavy servitors are used in several books. Cranes to lift them around.
I do not know the scale, but if you'd have to use a existing model - maybe an Arvus Lighter could be the closest match. Could mag lock the things to it's underside.

Understandably a regular Valkyre would not be used for "regular" transport duties with perhaps only a few "special" emergency exceptions, mainly due to limitations in its transport capacity.
But I am referring to the special version, the Skytalon. ( https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Imperial-Navy-Valkyrie-Sky-Talon )
Also considering the secretive nature of much of the Imperial armies it just sounds suspicious for a military craft to perform civilian duties (most likely with Imperial doctrine they would just use what they have most of for regular transport duties... so I imagine plenty of civilians carrying bags and boxes is the regular approach they choose...)

But also to be considered is the fact that Munitorum containers are are exactly what the name implies ---> Munitorum Armoured Containers
So "technically" they are "military".

As for Arvus Lighters... yeah it sounds like an option actually, although personally I feel they would be a tad to small for carrying an entire container... but yeah... good point.

in some of the books they mention stuff like cargo 9 shuttles, and other not massive but bigger cargo haulling craft that are civilian or lightly armed.

Exactly what I would like to see as an option, but sadly I have no idea what these would look like. But thanks for the mention.

OJJ

Of course you can make up whatever you want in your fluff. The galaxy is a large place, and maybe the scene you're depicting actually is a guard regiment getting ready to ship of world?
Maybe it's a world where the Skytalon is produced and therefore in more ample supply?

Concerning the Arvus:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Arvus_Lighter

"The Arvus is mostly used as a cargo shuttle, ferrying supplies and sometimes personnel from ship-to-ship and from high orbit to the surface of planets. The Arvus can also be used to transport cargo and personnel already on the planet to different locations on the surface if the terrain is too treacherous. The shuttle can be modified to carry special types of cargo, such as replacing the cargo bay with a fuel tanker or expanding it to carry larger loads." Sounds spot on.

Fluff stats are here:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arvus_Lighter

Weight 15 tonnes empty
Length 8.52m
Wingspan 8.2m
Height 3.68m

Fluff wise it should be capable of lifting a container.

Thanks for the links, it gives a different perspective on things.

I have clearly misinterpreted the size and scale of the Arvus as an option.
Also it makes more sense for an Arvus to be used for such transport duties considering resupply would most likely be from orbit.

Thanks again.

OJJ

The Arvus is a tiny model. It's actually quite a bit smaller than a Valkyrie and has less cargo space inside. The only way to carry a container would be in a sling hanging underneath the Arvus, which has obvious problems with a flight to or from orbit. Think of the Arvus as more of a light pickup truck capable of hauling supplies for a squad, not a heavy cargo truck towing full-size shipping containers. For things like the big containers there would probably be heavy cargo freighters that you'd never see on a 40k battlefield.

I think when people say 'civilian' vehicles they mean more non-combat vehicles. Real world armies use trucks, cargo planes, and tons of other unarmed, unarmored vehicles.

GW has very seldom detailed them and put almost none out as models (Arvus Lighter, Sentinel Power Loader and an ammo trailer is all I can think of) but logically there'd be a whole ecosystem of transport and cargo vehicles.

Some would be standardized across the planet/sector/galaxy for ease of parts, training etc. But in some worlds you'd use whatever's available. Airships, horse carts, anti-gravity suspensors, dinosaurs, whatever.

I would say for your project take a look at the toy thread and model thread for ideas.

Science Fiction models

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/582304.page

Historical

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602556.page

Toys
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/689888.page


I'm slowly working on a backwater space port idea and there's a 1/72 and 1/48 kit for the Space 1999 Eagle that makes for an affordable shuttle.

 Thairne wrote:
MUNITORUM ARMOURED CONTAINER TRANSPORT!

*cough*

Valkyres are military craft. I doubt they'd use them for transporting containers.
I'd think they'd use simple cargo hauling equipment... Heavy servitors are used in several books. Cranes to lift them around.
I do not know the scale, but if you'd have to use a existing model - maybe an Arvus Lighter could be the closest match. Could mag lock the things to it's underside.

You know that the Munitorum is a military organization, right?

So yeah, Valkyrie Skytalons absolutely could be seen for transporting containers.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I think when people say 'civilian' vehicles they mean more non-combat vehicles. Real world armies use trucks, cargo planes, and tons of other unarmed, unarmored vehicles.

GW has very seldom detailed them and put almost none out as models (Arvus Lighter, Sentinel Power Loader and an ammo trailer is all I can think of) but logically there'd be a whole ecosystem of transport and cargo vehicles.

This. I recall from the Gaunt's Ghosts books references to something called a Cargo-5 or Cargo-9, although Lexicanum isn't turning anything up. As noted, most of the logistics vehicles presented are on the smaller side.

In the original Dawn of War games, construction of Imperial Guard units was accompanied by an animation of a flyer dropping off a cargo container. It was similar to a Valkyrie in design, but clearly heavier than the Sky Talon.

A Sky Talon would be just fine for transport of containers into/out of a front line base, I think.

I think you're thinking of the Cargo 6 and Cargo 8, six and eight wheeled trucks IIRC.

I had another thought, if you remember your Iraq war history (the 2003 Iraq war that is, and I am so sad I have to specify) the US used a lot of civilian contractors to haul cargo, run logistics and feed the troops. Even to the point of having McDonalds and Pizza Hut on bases in a war zone.

And during WWI and WWII both sides commandeered civilian trucks to augment military supply fleets.

So after a few months or years in the field an IG unit probably would have all sorts of non-standard, not STC vehicles around.

And if no one minds a bit of self promotion I wrote this years ago. It desperately needs and update but is still very useful IMHO.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Civilian_vehicles_in_40k

GW did a kitbash of mobile marine hq building based on a rhino ages ago. It goes rather nicely with the Thunderhand transporter and I can easily see marine cargo modules using a similar form. It's already got handy hatches. Just drop out the engines tracks and internal partitions and it's good to go

First of all: this all escalated in the correct direction. Thanks for the feedback.

...and to other matters...

And if no one minds a bit of self promotion I wrote this years ago. It desperately needs and update but is still very useful IMHO.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Civilian_vehicles_in_40k

I found that one myself yesterday. Interesting opinions.

In the original Dawn of War games, construction of Imperial Guard units was accompanied by an animation of a flyer dropping off a cargo container. It was similar to a Valkyrie in design, but clearly heavier than the Sky Talon.

A Sky Talon would be just fine for transport of containers into/out of a front line base, I think.

I can't say for sure about the original Dawn of War game, but I remember from one of the games that the supplies were specifically delivered using a Valkyre. Although much smaller containers.
I will probably go for the Sky Talon just because I like it and becasue I love the look of both the Valkyre base model and the Vulture. (Besides, I am a Jet Engine Technician myself... and just look at those beauties strapped to those aircraft, they're pretty much just ripped straight from some technical textbook)

I did do some further digging for ideas for this transport/delivery ship and I stumbled over a Lexicanum article regarding the Devourer Dropship ---> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Devourer_Dropship
It is a MUCH larger ship than I would imagine would fit on a tabletop unless pressing into Epic country.
It does however give an idea as to how greater amounts of supplies would be dropped in a battlezone (or at least away from the fighting itself). But when considering smaller deliveries to outlying zones I still imagine a Sky Talon or similar/equivalent would be used.
As for the size of the containers and the available space in the magnetic clamps of the Sky Talon I would imagine a slightly enlarged version "could" exists. But that would still be speculation. I will consider the idea using some spares I ahve lying around.

OJJ

In rogue trader RPG there is the Halo Barge. "Halo Barges are mass-haulers, designed to move bulk cargo from a planet’s surface into orbit. Large, slow, and unwieldy, their
only benefit is that they are both practical and efficient." But they don't have a model, let alone a picture.

The way I see it, the Halo Barges take it down from orbit to a central depot, where smaller vehicles transport them onwards. The smaller vehicles being Skytalons and Trojans.

From ship to barge to harbour to truck to another truck or helo. In 40k replace truck with trojan or cargo 8, and helo with valkyrie/skytalon.

Tygre wrote:
In rogue trader RPG there is the Halo Barge. "Halo Barges are mass-haulers, designed to move bulk cargo from a planet’s surface into orbit. Large, slow, and unwieldy, their
only benefit is that they are both practical and efficient." But they don't have a model, let alone a picture.

The way I see it, the Halo Barges take it down from orbit to a central depot, where smaller vehicles transport them onwards. The smaller vehicles being Skytalons and Trojans.

From ship to barge to harbour to truck to another truck or helo. In 40k replace truck with trojan or cargo 8, and helo with valkyrie/skytalon.

Something like this shot from the David Lynch Dune film. A lot of 40k's imagery comes from the books and film, especially the idea of miles long star ships being the only way to get from system to system.

I kind of imagine a Manhattan sized ship opening it's holds and container ships with engines strapped on the side descending vertically.

Tygre wrote:
In rogue trader RPG there is the Halo Barge. "Halo Barges are mass-haulers, designed to move bulk cargo from a planet’s surface into orbit. Large, slow, and unwieldy, their
only benefit is that they are both practical and efficient." But they don't have a model, let alone a picture.

The way I see it, the Halo Barges take it down from orbit to a central depot, where smaller vehicles transport them onwards. The smaller vehicles being Skytalons and Trojans.

From ship to barge to harbour to truck to another truck or helo. In 40k replace truck with trojan or cargo 8, and helo with valkyrie/skytalon.

I honestly see this as the only logical way of mass deploying for a battlezone.
Although we at times see the Imperial Armies as a slow and very bureaucratical, I still imagine some logical sense is used for logistics and deployment.

Like mentioned earlier the info I've found is related to drop ships like the Devourer, but also the Tetrarch ( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tetrarch_Heavy_Lander ) and also digging into that I feel it matches to your idea from the Dune film of the 80's. I believe the IoM uses a ship they call the Whale, but I can't find info on it at this time.

However I feel the size of ships we are discussing here goes way beyond what I imagine I would use for the scenery and fluff, I still find the idea and the background to match well to how I would imagine supply deployment would be performed.
I'll probably go with the Sky Talon idea, but I'll have to see how the scel of the Munitorum containers match that of the Sky Talon.

OJJ

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I think you're thinking of the Cargo 6 and Cargo 8, six and eight wheeled trucks IIRC.

That makes much more sense, thank you.

I'll probably go with the Sky Talon idea, but I'll have to see how the scel of the Munitorum containers match that of the Sky Talon.

Let us know what you find out; I've been interested in a similar conversion myself.

It is worth noting that the models are not always to scale; this is usually true with transports.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It is worth noting that the models are not always to scale; this is usually true with transports.

Exactly why I raised the question

I'll be making some FW orders soon and popping over to my closest GW store (which happens to be an hours flight away in Aberdeen, Scotland... (-_-*) ) for some much needed supplies next month.
I'll keep the tread in mind and post some results.

Thanks for all the feedback.

OJJ