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In the GW Draft FAQ, one question that was asked was:

"Can you still take Formations or models that are no longer available, like the Void Shield Generator (an out-of-production model) or the Skyhammer Annihilation Force Formation (an out-of-print formation)"?

"Yes."

Now, while I would arguably not be able to use this rule to re-field Duke Sliscus or Baron Sathonyx or other such characters as they never had models to begin with, Asdrubael Vect *did* have his model and the Dais of Destruction.

So the question is...can you legally field Asdrubael Vect in 7th edition Dark Eldar despite his rules being out of print from the previous codex?

I heard of a man who tried.

They came for him.

He's still in G'tmo.

True story.

Vect, no. Void shield generators, yes (especially considering they're being brought back according to the new White Dwarf).IN general If the formation/character was something from a codex and there's been a more recent codex, you can't go back to pull stuff out of the older codex (at least without permission - some people might be cool if you want to use Vect). Separate datasheets that reference the most recent versions of the codexes (or at least aren't contradicted), such as the Ork Looted Vehicle, are okay. It's easier to use formations from older editions if they were published in something separate rather than the older version of a codex, if the units/models in the formation still go by the same name. Given how GW liked to spew out formations at different Christmastimes, I don't know if there were any 6th edition datasheets they put out there that there would be a question about being able to use in 7th.

If the publication/datasheet is OOP, and hasn't been replaced with anything, then yes you can use it.

If the publication currently has a newer version, then no, because the newer one supersedes the older one. So if Asdrubael's profile was in a codex that has since been updated, I would say no. I understand that the model's profile itself hasn't been granted a new version (it was just removed), but I still think that the new codex trumps the old one.

That being said, if a cool guy/gal shows up with an OOP model and wants to use old rules to field it, because he/she likes the model (and not because the old rules were insanely good), I would be glad to play it like that.

So...could I technically field a 5th edition Imperial Guard codex in 7th because it's an out-of-print publication?

 MagicJuggler wrote:
So...could I technically field a 5th edition Imperial Guard codex in 7th because it's an out-of-print publication?

You can technically field a 3rd edition guard army in 7th. There is not actually a written rule stating what you can and can't use in your games of 40k (which is really all the FAQ is saying)

But the reason you are expected to play with the current rules is because the players expect you to play with the most current rules

 MagicJuggler wrote:
So...could I technically field a 5th edition Imperial Guard codex in 7th because it's an out-of-print publication?

Well since there's no army called the Imperial Guard anymore...

In all seriousness the general rule is don't be obnoxious. Want to use old Vect rules most people will say fine, if not just be prepared to have him count as an Archon on a raider or whatever.

My take at it.
1. I vote yes, you can field him. But you live on the other side of the world so that isn't really that relevant.

2. This isn't about written rules of the games. This question is really about the unwritten rules or how the game should be played. These may vary from community to community.


As far as I know codexes and other supplements to the core rules are only allowed into the game by the few lines in front of the book claiming it to be a supplement of the game. Even the "how to use this book part" of my codexes does not include anything like: use this book as a replacement of the older codex, or this supplement is only to be used in combination with the x th edition of the 40k rule set.

There are on the other hand informal GW notes on how to play this game, and they all carry the same message: Don't take this game so serious, if you like and own the old rules go and play with it as long as you and your opponent enjoy your game.

So I vote yes you can use them and all other obscure old rules as long as they don't break the game by either being too op or by giving too much rule issues and vect seems to do neither.

In general, if you want to field Vect with his 5th ed rules with the 7th ed codex, or just run the 5th ed codex instead, check that your opponent is cool with you using old rules first. Otherwise go for it.

You'll need to check with your opponent. It entirely depends. Where I live, only two kinds of rules are allowed... currently available publications and out-of-print publications that have not been replaced with currently available publications AND are 100% compatible with the current edition.

Can I use Codex Tau Empire? Sure, it's a currently available publication.

Can I use the most recent White Dwarf datasheet for an Ork Looted Wagon? Sure, it's an out-of-print publication that has not been replaced with a currently available publication AND is 100% compatible with 7th Edition.

Can I use the old White Dwarf "Movie Marines" rules? No. Sure, it's an out-of-print publication that has not been replaced with a currently available publication, but it's NOT 100% compatible with 7th Edition.

Can I use Vect? No. The out-of-print publication you want to use has been replaced with a newer, currently available publication.

That's how we do things. It's very reasonable and I think it mirrors what you could expect to find in an average gaming store or tournament event.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having said all that, if it's just you and your buddy, talk to him/her. You can do whatever you want. That's sort of what GW is saying. Talk to your opponent and do whatever you want so long as you keep buying those shareholder pleasing GW models.

 Kriswall wrote:
You'll need to check with your opponent. It entirely depends. Where I live, only two kinds of rules are allowed... currently available publications and out-of-print publications that have not been replaced with currently available publications AND are 100% compatible with the current edition.

Can I use Codex Tau Empire? Sure, it's a currently available publication.

Can I use the most recent White Dwarf datasheet for an Ork Looted Wagon? Sure, it's an out-of-print publication that has not been replaced with a currently available publication AND is 100% compatible with 7th Edition.

Can I use the old White Dwarf "Movie Marines" rules? No. Sure, it's an out-of-print publication that has not been replaced with a currently available publication, but it's NOT 100% compatible with 7th Edition.

Can I use Vect? No. The out-of-print publication you want to use has been replaced with a newer, currently available publication.

That's how we do things. It's very reasonable and I think it mirrors what you could expect to find in an average gaming store or tournament event.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having said all that, if it's just you and your buddy, talk to him/her. You can do whatever you want. That's sort of what GW is saying. Talk to your opponent and do whatever you want so long as you keep buying those shareholder pleasing GW models.

That's my approach, because it seems the fairest and most reasonable way to go about it.

Would that approach allow chapter approved enslavers?

-its a oop publication (an old white dwarf)
-there are no new rules for them
-there is no rules conflict between the enslavers unit entry and the 7th rulebook. They sure have unusual special rules but they don't reference to any rule in a wrong way.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Would that approach allow chapter approved enslavers?

-its a oop publication (an old white dwarf)
-there are no new rules for them
-there is no rules conflict between the enslavers unit entry and the 7th rulebook. They sure have unusual special rules but they don't reference to any rule in a wrong way.

We generally also say that if something is out of print and from at least two editions ago, it's a no go. In other words, out of print 6th edition materials that don't conflict are ok. 1st through 5th are generally not ok. At some point, you need to move on. Having said that, I'm always willing to take a look on a case by case basis.

Full disclosure. I have no idea what the Chapter Approved Enslavers look like. Before my time.

I've been trying to use this as an argument to let me use the old Brass Scorpion rules for years (400pts for 6HP and an ordinary Demolisher cannon, the 'Greater Brass Scorpion' that's 700pts for 9HP and a 7" blast Demolisher cannon always seemed like a massive downgrade to me). Some people let me, some don't.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I've been trying to use this as an argument to let me use the old Brass Scorpion rules for years (400pts for 6HP and an ordinary Demolisher cannon, the 'Greater Brass Scorpion' that's 700pts for 9HP and a 7" blast Demolisher cannon always seemed like a massive downgrade to me). Some people let me, some don't.

This is ultimately what this sort of question will come down to and I think this mirrors GW's stance... simply talk to your opponent. Some people will say yes and some won't. The answer, in essence to whether or not you can use unit XXX is 'depends on who you're playing'.