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AwesomeSauceGaming wrote: I use deployment trays, numbered tokens for each squad, and tokens to mark which can charge the next turn.....I've forgotten about my 24" FnP from the icon ward every game so far
There's a lot of stuff to keep track of.
I constantly forget about this too. I generally forget the WS/ Ld bubble for my Brood Cycle units and the Adamantium Will bubbles from the Magus.
I suggest you write it on a poker chip...I use the colors to remind me what I'm looking for...so take say a white chip, write 12" adamantium will. lay it next to the unit/Dude that produces, and you'll get a reminder. For hatred/Zeal I use a Red one with the two sides differing. Blue is for "other stuff" Red is "Combat stuff" White is saves and stuff.
Ok. So by now we've all read the FAQs on the warhammer-community sight right? So it's been almost 24 hours and I'm still absolutely stunned at how bad we have been screwed. But let's regroup and move on, right? Here's the first order of the day: If someone has Servo skulls, I am going to essentially treat them let they're going first no matter what. Deploy my whole army far away in cover, then RTTS turn 1 and come back on turn 2 to try and do what I can to stop them, but now ignoring their precious skulls.
So here's the big old question... how do I pull this off against tau? So far going second against Tau has been a nightmare as interceptor blows me away each time. I've pulled out some wins, but not many or easily. Very very tough to deal with.
jifel wrote: Ok. So by now we've all read the FAQs on the warhammer-community sight right? So it's been almost 24 hours and I'm still absolutely stunned at how bad we have been screwed.
What do you mean? Only the servo skulls are bad but the other stuff was to be expected. I didn't play it differently...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jifel wrote: So here's the big old question... how do I pull this off against tau? So far going second against Tau has been a nightmare as interceptor blows me away each time. I've pulled out some wins, but not many or easily. Very very tough to deal with.
If your army cannot deal interceptor fire, then you cannot deal with its 'normal' fire either. You need more bodies to soak up bullets and that means more acoytes or neophytes. Pick an aegis defence with comm link and then you can also keep stuff save and/or in reserve.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/21 18:37:17
What shogun said - the FAQ wasn't much of a shock, and most of it lines up with how I've been playing the army anyway, including the thing about servo skulls. The only real difference is the Allies and RttS; I've always treated them as enemies and assumed they blocked RttS, but they no longer do, which opens up some interesting possibilities.
It sucks a little, but it really just changes the tactics. And they'll have to spend the points on an inquisitor w/servo skulls....admittedly super cheap.
More importantly for ITC tournament stuff that requires they use a detachment to get it correct?
Played a crazy game last night against a DA player and a player using one of the new Castellans of the imperium detachment. It was a super cool setup with lines of trenches in a square around a Fortress of Redemption. My ally was actually a DA player also (4 people total, 1250 points per player) and we had a really cool twist:
(If this is TLDR, short version is this was possibly the best game of 40k I've ever played)
Spoiler:
All of the imperium players were deployed inside the fortress, the surrounding area or the trenches around the fortress (so basically they had like a 4 x 3 rectangle to deploy in). We played an adaptation of an old 6th ed mission (one of the extra ones that weren't the eternal war ones....I forget what it was called). The victory condition for myself and the one DA player was that we had to have a single turn where the missile silo was not being contested by any enemy units, and their victory condition was to at least contest the silo every turn (random game length like usual). We let my teammate deploy anywhere he wanted inside the city limits after the other two players deployed, but he didn't know that the opposing team knew he was a traitor...that's what you get for making your list in the other room while we decide the mission LOL! We auto-gave them first turn.
The opposing DA player brought a squadron of dreads, 2 tac squads in las razorbacks and a squad of death wing knights led by an interrogator chaplain in a land raider.
The opposing imperium player brought a space marine detachment (3 tac squads), a bane blade, a librarian, a grey knight librarian and an inquisitor (but no servo skulls).
My teammate brought a lion's blade strike force with 2 squads of 3 bikes, 2 land speeders, an assault marine squad with a company master, 3 tac marine squads in rhinos and a squad of lascannon devastators (who manned the top tower on the fortress of redemption for the entire game).
I brought a maxed out first curse, a subterranean assault formation w/10 claw metamorphs and 2 squads of 20 acolytes w/banner, 1 rock saw, plus the primus. Had a side CAD of another patriarch, a magus, and 2 min acolyte squads.
This was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played, where every turn it was a heavy slug fest. My warlord got the 6 trait and my primus' squad rolled a 6 to deploy. The baneblade took out almost the entire squad of 20 acolytes in its first turn, including the magus and the primus (RIP auto look out sir) because neither of the blasts scattered, it wasn't night fight and I decided that going to ground in the trenches wasn't worth giving up my turn 1 charge from that squad...boy was I wrong haha.
We did still hit back hard though, as the first curse mulched through about 1.5 tac squads a turn for the whole game, plus whatever metal boxes happened to be nearby. And that lion's blade full BS overwatch...wow it saved my teammate more times than I could count. Saw a squad of death wing knights fail 3/5 armor saves, watched myself fail 7/8 4+ cover saves, and saw a single 8 point acolyte charge and take 2 hull points off a bane blade. In the end, it came down to turn 5 where we had to kill the bane blade to stop it from contesting the missile silo. Multi meltas whiffed, lascannons whiffed, we're left with a patriarch and 4 gene stealers, plus the lone aforementioned acolyte. Baneblade is at 8 hull points. I do the acolyte combat first and am amazed to watch him strip 2 by his lonesome. I do the patriarch next and he strips two more (sadly I didn't roll the +1 str power; otherwise I bet he and his friends would have done more). Last 4 gene stealers decide to hit 17 times. Since the bane blade is rear armor 12, a 6 would guarantee a glance (can't roll lower than +1 on the rend d3 roll). With 4 hull points, a little bit of luck means the bane blade is dead and the game is won. I roll 3 6's. It survives to fight another day...only there isn't another day. The game end roll is a 1 (rolled by yours truly) and we take the L, though it would have been a certain victory if the game went on to turn 6 or 7.
And that is how I lost my first game as GSC. To be fair, I still count myself as undefeated in normal, fair 1 v 1 games. I think I may have hung my teammate out to dry just a little too much that game during deployment
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/22 02:04:51
Now that the FAQ is out, we got smacked around a bit but we did get a confirmation that we can move after ambush on the initial setup.
Does this mean that demo charges might be a legitimate thing to take, especially on the brood cycle acolytes? Outside of a roll of a 1, they have a high probability of being right in the action to get a good throw in. They can force things from bunching up or castling. Plus only rolling one dice on the ambush table, they have a better chance of being effective. I'm also considering maybe one unit with a few flamers for the same reason.
I've been struggling with how to work out the brood cycle and thinking of those units as ones that can shoot might be the way to go.
My other debate I've been having is how worthwhile the primus is in the subterranean. He's essentially the same cost as another 5 man clawmorph squad.
Any FAQ changes that have made you change up your list?
Brian Carlson
http://briancarlsonminiatures.blogspot.com
Any FAQ changes that have made you change up your list?
Made me take the primus out of my CAD. Not worth having more than one if he can't buff the subterranean formation (in fact he actually takes a die AWAY from their roll if he's not the one from their formation)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait a second....I think the subterranean assault formation CAN benefit from an outside primus' effects. Here are the relevant FAQ:
"Q: If a unit in the Subterranean Uprising Formation is joined by a Patriarch or Magus who is not from the Formation, are they still able to roll 2D6 when using Cult Ambush?
A: No.
Q: If the Primus from the Subterranean Uprising joins a unit who is not from Subterranean Uprising, do they only roll one dice when using Cult Ambush?
A: Yes."
So clearly adding a Magus or a Patriarch does not allow the formation to still roll 2d6, but they don't mention a primus from outside of the formation. They also mention that the primus from the subterranean formation can't go make a different unit roll 3d6 (rip my first curse).
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/25 00:03:15
Page 86
– Special Rules, Meticulous Planner
Change the rule to read:
‘If a unit in this Formation has been joined by a Primus
from this Formation, you can roll three dice instead of
one when rolling on the Cult Ambush table for this unit,
and select any one of the results.’
Cptn_Snuggles wrote: Now that the FAQ is out, we got smacked around a bit but we did get a confirmation that we can move after ambush on the initial setup.
Does this mean that demo charges might be a legitimate thing to take, especially on the brood cycle acolytes? Outside of a roll of a 1, they have a high probability of being right in the action to get a good throw in. They can force things from bunching up or castling. Plus only rolling one dice on the ambush table, they have a better chance of being effective. I'm also considering maybe one unit with a few flamers for the same reason.
No, for these reasons:
- If you get first turn you got to get in close combat so no reason to shoot down enemy models increasing your assault range.
- If you don't get first turn the will die first.
- 20 points are another 2.5 acolytes (bodies) with 8/10 attacks rending.
- Throwing a 6 inch range large blast is risky.
If I need flamers during the game I summon them. Also good to summon 20 neophytes with shotguns.
I've been struggling with how to work out the brood cycle and thinking of those units as ones that can shoot might be the way to go.
My other debate I've been having is how worthwhile the primus is in the subterranean. He's essentially the same cost as another 5 man clawmorph squad.
I think you forget about 12 inch zealot. I put him with 20 acolytes to give a big cheap unit 3d6 for cult ambush. I deploy them first and if I got a '6' result I put them in the front. Then I deploy the units that contain the patriarchs and deploy them 17 inch away from them (can also do this with normal infiltrate). All the rest goes behind the primus/acolyte unit. Primus unit are intervening models and provide a 5+ coversave + shrouded and possible stealth (night fight), so thats a 2+ coversave. The unit itself can go to ground and get a 3/4+ coversave. next turn I move the patriarchs within 12 inch and fearless makes them stand up again.
The only part of the FaQ that I wasn't already playing was the outside Primuses conveying 3D6 ambush rolls onto sub uprising units. Bit annoyed about that if only cos it invalidates my owning multiple primuses - and its the exact opposite ruling to the doting throng, who can be affected by outside magoses!
But yeah, otherwise exactly how I would've interpreted things.
jifel wrote: Really? Even familiars getting the attacks of the the bearers? Cause that one I did NOT see coming at all.
I'm not sure what they're saying with the "attacks" thing. Isn't it specific about being 2 strength 4 rending attacks? I get it's at the bearer's WS and initiative.
Brian Carlson
http://briancarlsonminiatures.blogspot.com
jifel wrote: Really? Even familiars getting the attacks of the the bearers? Cause that one I did NOT see coming at all.
I'm not sure what they're saying with the "attacks" thing. Isn't it specific about being 2 strength 4 rending attacks? I get it's at the bearer's WS and initiative.
That was my interpretation of the familiar rules from the Codex. But, if the FAQ lets me use his attack value too I'm all for it! That's 8 familiar attacks on a Patriarch, in addition to his 4!
I am also betting that they meant to say initiative not attacks. But, for now, a Genestealer Familiar may use the attacks of its bearer. Therefore a Familiar to a Patriarch may use A:4 when using its attacks. Two familiars therefore can produce 8 attacks.
jifel wrote: I am also betting that they meant to say initiative not attacks. But, for now, a Genestealer Familiar may use the attacks of its bearer. Therefore a Familiar to a Patriarch may use A:4 when using its attacks. Two familiars therefore can produce 8 attacks.
That would make them really nasty! Almost an auto include for patriarchs
Brian Carlson
http://briancarlsonminiatures.blogspot.com
jifel wrote: I am also betting that they meant to say initiative not attacks. But, for now, a Genestealer Familiar may use the attacks of its bearer. Therefore a Familiar to a Patriarch may use A:4 when using its attacks. Two familiars therefore can produce 8 attacks.
Oh come on people. A model with a familiar gets 2 x S4 attacks so its obvious that it doesn't mean that a familiair gives the same amount of patriarch attacks (4). A little common sense please...
shogun wrote: Oh come on people. A model with a familiar gets 2 x S4 attacks so its obvious that it doesn't mean that a familiair gives the same amount of patriarch attacks (4). A little common sense please...
That's what I thought too. But what else could you interpret from that FAQ?
shogun wrote: Oh come on people. A model with a familiar gets 2 x S4 attacks so its obvious that it doesn't mean that a familiair gives the same amount of patriarch attacks (4). A little common sense please...
That's what I thought too. But what else could you interpret from that FAQ?
that they attacks happen at the same time as the normal attacks
Cptn_Snuggles wrote: Now that the FAQ is out, we got smacked around a bit but we did get a confirmation that we can move after ambush on the initial setup.
Well... yeah. Deployment happens prior to the first turn. I don't understand why anyone would think your dudes couldn't move on turn one just because they Infiltrate funny.
Does this mean that demo charges might be a legitimate thing to take, especially on the brood cycle acolytes?
It might help with bubblewrap; it might also scatter back onto your Acolytes and kill them all. I'm of the opinion that Acolytes don't need any help with dying, since they're very good at that already. Plus the GSC credo seems to be more bodies are better than better bodies, and Demo Charges are eye-wateringly expensive.
I've been struggling with how to work out the brood cycle and thinking of those units as ones that can shoot might be the way to go.
I've always treated the Brood Cycle as expendables - they're the dudes who protect your HQs with ablative wounds, eat Overwatch for your SubUp units, and give cover saves to your ObSec CAD Troops. The Ld bubble means they're less reliant on Fearless than SubUppers or CADders, and while the WS boost is nice I've never found it necessary given the huge numbers of dice you're rolling.
GSC shooting is, in a word, dire. It is wretchedly bad. It is to the GSC what close combat is to Guard infantry - a desperate last resort that you use if you can't do anything else. The only benefit your dudes get from their pistols is +1 Attack.
My other debate I've been having is how worthwhile the primus is in the subterranean. He's essentially the same cost as another 5 man clawmorph squad.
I don't bother with him anymore, for that reason.
Any FAQ changes that have made you change up your list?
So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?
It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.
vercingatorix wrote: So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?
It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.
The reasoning is that units generally lose funky deployment rules if not everyone in the unit carries that rule.
You are correct that those other ICs would invalidate the extra rolls for CA.
vercingatorix wrote: So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?
It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.
The reasoning is that units generally lose funky deployment rules if not everyone in the unit carries that rule.
You are correct that those other ICs would invalidate the extra rolls for CA.
Well I guess if the patriarch says so, that's how it is.
vercingatorix wrote: So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?
It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.
The reasoning is that units generally lose funky deployment rules if not everyone in the unit carries that rule.
You are correct that those other ICs would invalidate the extra rolls for CA.
Well I guess if the patriarch says so, that's how it is.
Well there isn't a block as in you're not allowed to do it, you just only roll 1D6 for ambush. I see no reason why it'd stop CADs being joined by units from our formation. The units in our formation get Infiltrate (so characters from it have Shrouded since they all, bar the Iconward, already have infiltrate) - meaning you potentially have an incentive to stick formation HQs in CAD units to give them Shrouded first turn. Vice versa, HQs from CADs joining formation units will all already have Infiltrate, so no issues there, they just don't get Shrouded.
(Note that the above is based on the new BRBFaQ, in which units with at least one model with Infiltrate can do so, but do not have to do so.)
vercingatorix wrote: So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?
It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.
The reasoning is that units generally lose funky deployment rules if not everyone in the unit carries that rule.
You are correct that those other ICs would invalidate the extra rolls for CA.
Well I guess if the patriarch says so, that's how it is.
Well there isn't a block as in you're not allowed to do it, you just only roll 1D6 for ambush. I see no reason why it'd stop CADs being joined by units from our formation. The units in our formation get Infiltrate (so characters from it have Shrouded since they all, bar the Iconward, already have infiltrate) - meaning you potentially have an incentive to stick formation HQs in CAD units to give them Shrouded first turn. Vice versa, HQs from CADs joining formation units will all already have Infiltrate, so no issues there, they just don't get Shrouded.
(Note that the above is based on the new BRBFaQ, in which units with at least one model with Infiltrate can do so, but do not have to do so.)
I was just trying to make a joke on the patriarchs name. I will remember an exclamation point next time!
This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. If I join a cad magus lets say to a sub assault squad. The faq ruled they don't get to use their subassault 2d6 rules. Okay, fair enough.
What about the rest of the formation benefits? Do they still get to return d6 guys, what about the formation giving them shrouding? That's a cad character now benefiting from formation rules which we're allowed to do sometimes but not others.
I'll play it that they benefit from those things but honestly I hope 8th simplifies ruling sharing of formations/units/ and ICs.
HQ from a CAD would not benefit from shrouding the first turn. CAD units would also not benefit from the replenishment of d6 casualties. That is unless the HQ joins a unit that would normally get shrouding (ex. Patriarch from CAD joining a genestealer cult from the formation).
However, the HQ from the formation joining a CAD unit, would pass along the shrouding benefit. You only need one model with stealth or shrouding for the whole unit to benefit.
The unit from the formation would replenish casualties regardless of what HQ was attached. Similarly a CAD unit will never replenish casualties even if a HQ from the formation is attached.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Brian Carlson
http://briancarlsonminiatures.blogspot.com
vercingatorix wrote: This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. If I join a cad magus lets say to a sub assault squad. The faq ruled they don't get to use their subassault 2d6 rules. Okay, fair enough.
What about the rest of the formation benefits?
Units in a SubUp get Infiltrate as part of the SubUp formation. If you take the SubUp as part of the Cult Insurrection, they get Shrouded first turn since they already have Infiltrate because of the SubUp, which the CAD Magus would also benefit from since it's an "If one or more models..." rule.
The unit also gets to use Numbers Beyond Counting because it's part of a Cult Insurrection detachment. I don't understand why you think a CADIC would prevent that. Where's the precedent for it?
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