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I get wanting to have an extra source of bodies but I just don't think Summoning Daemons is a good idea. One Eye Open on its own is enough of a pain, but on top of that the FAQ only says Allies of Convenience don't interfere with RttS - CTA Allies still do. Creating extra no-go areas is a recipe for disaster, and it's all well and good thinking you can avoid that by separating your army, but the fact is these are two halves of a whole and they're both fighting the same opponent. In scenarios where control of specific board sections is required, or if you end up in one of those games where someone just wants to fist-fight with your army for whatever reason, at best the Daemons will be an irrelevance and at worst they'll actively hinder your play by forcing you to micromanage the two parts around each other.

One of the things I'm considering trying out is a full-AM Castellans detachment. As far as I can gather the detachment is factionless, so as long as all the models in it are AM then it's perfectly legal. Not sure how I'd set it up yet (2-4 Primaris Psykers plus Veterans most likely), but endlessly-replenishing Troops sounds okay to me. 5+ isn't great odds, but the opponent can't block it like they can with Summoning.

 BBAP wrote:
I get wanting to have an extra source of bodies but I just don't think Summoning Daemons is a good idea. One Eye Open on its own is enough of a pain, but on top of that the FAQ only says Allies of Convenience don't interfere with RttS - CTA Allies still do. Creating extra no-go areas is a recipe for disaster, and it's all well and good thinking you can avoid that by separating your army, but the fact is these are two halves of a whole and they're both fighting the same opponent. In scenarios where control of specific board sections is required, or if you end up in one of those games where someone just wants to fist-fight with your army for whatever reason, at best the Daemons will be an irrelevance and at worst they'll actively hinder your play by forcing you to micromanage the two parts around each other.

I think it's not (only) about getting extra bodies but getting some extra muscle. I hope to create the situation that the opponent is forced to shoot down the GSC and can do nothing about the daemons in the backfield that are getting ready for the second wave. If I'am facing an army that wants to fistfight then there is a good reason for them to do it. Once was facing a baronial court that got overwatch and I really struggled against them because I could not get enough GSC units in close combat to put them down. Overwatch + 3 attacks + stomp can really hurt and a knight with only one HP left is still just as dangerous.

The Eldar army that I was facing at a tournament got first turn and I was forced to start playing the second turn. We were playing the mission that you could steal mealstrom objective markers from each other and he got the first two turns to just grab anything he could. So if I wanted a 20-0 win I really needed to make up for it.

Then he moved in a big bubble because he knew he was going to lose a few units but at least he got the room to move around his remaining units and start tearing it apart.


I was forced to deploy the GSC all over the place because I could not let him move away and shoot without some assault pressure nearby. After that my GSC units can only move 6 inch and got limited assault without fleet. Maybe with daemons I could deploy in their face more often and afford to lose more bodies because I got two LOC flying in or 3x5 seekers closing in fast.

I think a flexible daemon summoning battery could really help and that the pro's outweigh the con's. I'am not that worried about rtts because the GSC could just rtts before the daemon moves closer or after the daemon moves away. The one thing that does suck, could be the deep strike mishap that gives your opponent the opportunity to place the daemon model between a bunch of GSC-units forcing a lot of 'one eye open tests'.

I would start rolling for the magus to see if I get summoning and maybe switch to telepathy or biomancy to try to get feel no pain or invisibility if I do. But if I don't then worst case scenario I have to cast 3x seekers or screamers first turn and every turn after that.

I'am going to try this out and see if it helps.

 BBAP wrote:

One of the things I'm considering trying out is a full-AM Castellans detachment. As far as I can gather the detachment is factionless, so as long as all the models in it are AM then it's perfectly legal. Not sure how I'd set it up yet (2-4 Primaris Psykers plus Veterans most likely), but endlessly-replenishing Troops sounds okay to me. 5+ isn't great odds, but the opponent can't block it like they can with Summoning.

But isn't the replenishment arriving from your table edge? Do you expect them to do a lot in this case?

 BBAP wrote:
I get wanting to have an extra source of bodies but I just don't think Summoning Daemons is a good idea. One Eye Open on its own is enough of a pain, but on top of that the FAQ only says Allies of Convenience don't interfere with RttS - CTA Allies still do. Creating extra no-go areas is a recipe for disaster, and it's all well and good thinking you can avoid that by separating your army, but the fact is these are two halves of a whole and they're both fighting the same opponent. In scenarios where control of specific board sections is required, or if you end up in one of those games where someone just wants to fist-fight with your army for whatever reason, at best the Daemons will be an irrelevance and at worst they'll actively hinder your play by forcing you to micromanage the two parts around each other.

One of the things I'm considering trying out is a full-AM Castellans detachment. As far as I can gather the detachment is factionless, so as long as all the models in it are AM then it's perfectly legal. Not sure how I'd set it up yet (2-4 Primaris Psykers plus Veterans most likely), but endlessly-replenishing Troops sounds okay to me. 5+ isn't great odds, but the opponent can't block it like they can with Summoning.

I believe castellans detachment requires you to take 2 factions minimum.

shogun wrote:I think it's not (only) about getting extra bodies but getting some extra muscle. I hope to create the situation that the opponent is forced to shoot down the GSC and can do nothing about the daemons in the backfield that are getting ready for the second wave.

I can't see how that would work myself. Anyone capable of shooting down the GSC - which really isn't difficult - won't struggle to blow up 20 Flesh Hounds, and that's the toughest prospect you can generate with four casts of Summoning. Even four casts isn't guaranteed; the Psykana generates a lot of Warp Charge, but it's pretty fragile, especially when you're rolling on Malefic. Lose a Wyrdvane and your WC pool drops by one; lose 6 and it drops by two. Fail a test, a Wyrdvane dies. Roll any doubles to Summon, a Wyrdvane dies. The dudes are T3 5+ too, so if anyone sneezes at them, a Wyrdvane dies. If the Primaris is Summoning he'll likely die off quickly because he doesn't get the 2+ bonus from the Commissar, and if that happens you lose his ML2 plus the Formation bonus WC. If he's not Summoning then you're bringing in even less Daemons every turn.

It's points-intensive, it's creating CTA Allies units on the table with all the nonsense that entails, it's costing you two GSC HQ slots, and the units you're bringing in just aren't that worrisome in the numbers you'll be Summoning. Give it a try by all means, but I think you'd be better off with another GSC CAD with two more Broodmind psykers in it. Two ML2 Patriarchs and 2x5 Acolytes costs 20pts less, generates an extra 4WC, and gives you another two Patriarchs on top of everything else, at the cost of 4 flimsy Warp Charges per turn.

But isn't the replenishment arriving from your table edge? Do you expect them to do a lot in this case?

Depends what you build them for, I guess. Melta death-ride squads probably not; Vets with an Autocannon and two GLs would still be able to contribute.

rawne2510 wrote:I believe castellans detachment requires you to take 2 factions minimum.

So it does. That kinda sucks.

Just a random idea. If you could take as many formations as you wanted, do you think a reasonable strategy would just be to take sub uprisings and dispense with the brood cycle? At 1850 you could do:

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 275pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
3 x 5 acolytes 40pts


That's be 205 rending models in 41 MSU units with the double-roll on cult ambush. You'd lose 1st turn shrouded, and replenishing numbers when respawning, but you avoid all tax units for more of what makes GSC good. It'd also be a simple matter to swap out a sub-up for a CAD if you wanted some obsec neophytes and a patriarch or two. You should get 13-14 "6" results on the CA table, which even strong shooting armies might struggle to eliminate in one turn (as it'd be around 70 models that could be killed in groups of five at most)

IVIOOSE wrote:
Im curious to know what everyone's GSC army consists of. i think i have my list close to finalized for this years ITC format events. as always though need to see what changes they will make and what changes events will make. kind of a wall of text.

what do your lists look like?

Combined arms detachment
115 patriarch, lvl 2(warlord)
50 x10 neophytes
50 x10 neophytes

Cult insurrection detachment
Lord of the cult
115 patriarch, lvl 2
Brood Cycle
65 iconward
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
55 x5 metomorphs, x1 whip, x4 claw
70 x5 genestealers
Subterranean assault formation #1
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #2
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Doting throng
85 magus, lvl 2, crouchling
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns

Psykana Division
50 primaris psyker
60 x5 wyrdvane psykers
60 x5 wyrdvane psykers
60 x5 wyrdvane psykers
25 commisar
25 commisar
25 commisar

Total 1850

The claw morph loadout here caught my eye. 4 claws to 1 whip is certainly interesting, and something I hadn't considered. Obviously you dilute the power of the morphs vs particularly very heavy armour, and things like WKs, but you get a couple of i7 hits in. Against anything i5-7 that's obviously handy, and whilst you don't get immediate benefits in terms of less morphs dying before they get to attack vs the very common i4, you can reduce incoming damage. Thing is, mass hypnosis, if you have enough psykers, also serves a similar purpose in terms of slowing down marines. Do people think there's merit to this unit composition?

 DoomMouse wrote:
Just a random idea. If you could take as many formations as you wanted, do you think a reasonable strategy would just be to take sub uprisings and dispense with the brood cycle? At 1850 you could do:

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 275pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
3 x 5 acolytes 40pts


That's be 205 rending models in 41 MSU units with the double-roll on cult ambush. You'd lose 1st turn shrouded, and replenishing numbers when respawning, but you avoid all tax units for more of what makes GSC good. It'd also be a simple matter to swap out a sub-up for a CAD if you wanted some obsec neophytes and a patriarch or two. You should get 13-14 "6" results on the CA table, which even strong shooting armies might struggle to eliminate in one turn (as it'd be around 70 models that could be killed in groups of five at most)

This looks cool but in the end your models keep getting in each others way. Also once thought about this:

Brood Cycle
65 iconward
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
55 x5 metamorphs, 5x claws
70 x5 genestealers

cult mutants
55 x5 metamorphs, 5x claws
55 x5 metamorphs, 5x claws

shadown stalkers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers

70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers

70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers

70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers
70 x5 genestealers

less models but better toughness, 5+ inv and stealth.

Arson Fire wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Not only that but your Cult Insurrection detachment means those mawlocs are arriving on a 4+ which kind of blows.

Thankfully not.
'An Uprising Generations in the Making' affects 'your opponent'. Not enemy units. So allies get to arrive normally.

It's also mentioned in the FAQ.

Q: Does the An Uprising Generations in the Making rule affect
Allies of Convenience?
A: No – they gain neither the benefit of being part of the
Genestealer Cult force, nor the penalty your opponent’s
Reserve Rolls will suffer.

Oh wow nice! Thanks for pointing that out. This is a nice way for me to pad out points while I paint myself into carpel tunnel syndrome.

Is there any point to allying in Celestine or Cawl as part of an IG detachment, to gain access to their relics?

Edit: How does this look as a starting list?

First Curse
115-Patriarch, ML 2
340-20 Purestrain Genestealers, Sycthing Talons

Command Slot
75-Magus, ML 2, Crouchling

Brood Cycle
50-10 Neophyte Hybrids
50-10 Neophyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
55-5 Claw Metamorphs
70-5 Purestrain Genestealers

Subterranean Uprising
75-Primus
55-5 Claw Metamorphs
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids

 JNAProductions wrote:


Edit: How does this look as a starting list?

First Curse
115-Patriarch, ML 2
340-20 Purestrain Genestealers, Sycthing Talons

Command Slot
75-Magus, ML 2, Crouchling

Brood Cycle
50-10 Neophyte Hybrids
50-10 Neophyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
55-5 Claw Metamorphs
70-5 Purestrain Genestealers

Subterranean Uprising
75-Primus
55-5 Claw Metamorphs
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids
40-5 Acolyte Hybrids

I don't like the first curse. It's to unpredictable for that amount of points. Patriarch + 20 genestealers that roll a 1 for cult ambush (So no fearless at the front) or just infiltrate and start walking are not worth it in my opinion. For each 8 genestealer you can have 14 acolytes that can roll 2d6 for cult ambush.

Also, the primus get's killed very fast if he is only joining 5 acolytes/metamorphs. You can almost have another 10 acolytes for that amount of points.

Benlisted wrote:
The claw morph loadout here caught my eye. 4 claws to 1 whip is certainly interesting, and something I hadn't considered. Obviously you dilute the power of the morphs vs particularly very heavy armour, and things like WKs, but you get a couple of i7 hits in. Against anything i5-7 that's obviously handy, and whilst you don't get immediate benefits in terms of less morphs dying before they get to attack vs the very common i4, you can reduce incoming damage. Thing is, mass hypnosis, if you have enough psykers, also serves a similar purpose in terms of slowing down marines. Do people think there's merit to this unit composition?

I didn't used to, because of the power thing, but I had a couple of games over the weekend that converted me. A 4:1 or 3:2 ratio of claws to whips is a good idea - lots of I5+ floating around at the moment, and with this new Chilli Yncarne Ynnari Aeldari stuff I reckon there'll be more still. Originally I thought units of Whips and Claws would be the way to go, but now I'm thinking it's a mistake to trust Cult Ambush to deliver such specialised units to where you need them; unit by unit the power is reduced, but you're rarely running these units into anything on their own so overall I don't think you're losing all that much. Being able to slot smug Harlies before they get to swing is very satisfying.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Is there any point to allying in Celestine or Cawl as part of an IG detachment, to gain access to their relics?

I don't think Allies of any type are a good idea, let alone CTA Allies and especially not ones equipped to do the same things your Cult can do already. You could try it out if you like, but it seems like a bad idea to me. More Hybrids and more HQs is the best way to run GSC in my opinion.

i like having just 1 whip in my units as they are the first to die so my claws can still swing and i keep my killing power in the unit. its also nice to have a whip to cut down eldar when you win combat. anything for a slight boost vs eldar.

i have rarely had problems with my deamons getting in the way of the gsc.

i stack 2 objectives midfield and just summon deamons on them and they sit there while opponent is busy killing other stuff. also having the ability to throw out a unit of pink horrors to stop a deathstar for 2-3 turns is really handy.

im going to start toying with 8 man units of acolytes as you can loose 1-2 of them and still surround a vehile to kill everything inside when you wreck it which is super handy vs a gladius player.

If you're using the Whip as an ablative wound - which isn't a bad idea in an Insurrection unit, I suppose - then you lose the I7 the first time some Guardian gets lucky. 2 Whips means less chance of losing it to random elf-slaps. It also equates to 8 attacks at I7 from a single 5-man unit, which is enough to do a bit of damage. It also means if you're running two units in together you have 16 S4 Rending attacks at I7, which is downright dangerous.

Also, if we're looking for ways to get cheap bodies into play - why not Zoidberg? Two Tervigons and a 30-roach Termagant unit is 510pts, which leaves you 1100-1300pts to build a reasonable Insurrection army around, gives you a couple of 6-wound Monsters to play with, and allows you to flood the table with Gants.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Just a random idea. If you could take as many formations as you wanted, do you think a reasonable strategy would just be to take sub uprisings and dispense with the brood cycle? At 1850 you could do:

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 315pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
4 x 5 acolytes 40pts

Sub-uprising - 275pts
3 x 5 metamorphs with clawss 55pts
3 x 5 acolytes 40pts


That's be 205 rending models in 41 MSU units with the double-roll on cult ambush. You'd lose 1st turn shrouded, and replenishing numbers when respawning, but you avoid all tax units for more of what makes GSC good. It'd also be a simple matter to swap out a sub-up for a CAD if you wanted some obsec neophytes and a patriarch or two. You should get 13-14 "6" results on the CA table, which even strong shooting armies might struggle to eliminate in one turn (as it'd be around 70 models that could be killed in groups of five at most)

It's great as long as you can go first every turn. The great thing about the big detachment is that all of your subterranean uprising models get shrouded turn 1. So they'll come in mostly intact even if you don't go first. Your list will get hammered if it has to go second.

You could just deploy them at the back and RTTS for a turn two assault if you were going second?

I admit getting seized on would be painful. Shrouding is good, but you sacrifice having more of the dangerous acolytes and metamorphs who roll two CA dice to get it.

Not saying that my list is better than the insurrection, but just a weird possible alternative

I had the chance to play in a tournament this weekend with a 1850 list: broodcycle, first curse, subterranean, and cad with 2 patriarchs to help get extra warp charge. We used the adepticon primer scenarios for the 40k championships.

Some observations that I had.

- Being seized on is really painful. I played against a guard gunline, went first and set up charges and got the dreaded 6. I recovered and ended up winning (thanks first curse) but it was a lesson. I barely used my defense lines due to the amount of riptide SMS and flame throwers (marines) but it makes me wonder if I should just always go 2nd if possible and play the first turn defensive (pull the army off with the exception of 1 unit) and do a coordinated assault turn 2. Potentially I keep the defense lines after all.

- Had a rough go against a white scars battle company with a decent amount of flamers. This is twice now I've struggled against battle company. The sheer amount of obsec transports protecting the tasty biomass inside meant I was getting return fire on a regular basis. It makes me wonder if I should consider some sort of anti-tank at range or just go even heavier MSU with more claw-morphs.

- the first curse did work for me. It seems like a huge point sync, but with the psychic dice I have I can buff it up nicely. It also is a huge intimidation factor.

- I also had a hard time against a riptide wing (with 6 riptides). He combined it with the infiltration cadre, meaning he could deploy off the board with the riptides. As soon as I killed one unit of his infiltration cadre the entire army came in. It kept me from ambushing the riptides. What a brutal army to go against. Had I to do it over, I may have just taken fire, pulled my army off with the exception of one unit and hope that the riptides came in from reserves piecemeal. They're overlapping supporting fire and interceptor is brutal!

- My army wasn't fully painted yet so I hadn't had the time to paint markings on the bases to designate which detachment they were from. I put dice next to each to mark, but it made for some slower then I would like decision making and deploying. I like to fade in and out a lot which means I need very visible identification of which unit is which.

- I'm struggling with the brood cycle. Maybe I'm just not using the iconward effectively (I keep forgetting the furious charge bubble) but he didn't do much. I keep wondering if a neophyte calvacade would speed the game up, and provide more use. Has anyone had positive experiences with the mech portion?

- I'm a fast player but I definitely had to play super fast. I made a cheat sheet that I laminated so I could use a dry erase marker to mark all the spells, effects and reminders. I also created tokens to designate ambush assualt, spell effects, etc. Even with that I felt very rushed playing the game. I need to continue to find time savers, especially if I'm playing an opponent with long phases.

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
- Being seized on is really painful. I played against a guard gunline, went first and set up charges and got the dreaded 6. I recovered and ended up winning (thanks first curse) but it was a lesson. I barely used my defense lines due to the amount of riptide SMS and flame throwers (marines) but it makes me wonder if I should just always go 2nd if possible and play the first turn defensive (pull the army off with the exception of 1 unit) and do a coordinated assault turn 2. Potentially I keep the defense lines after all.

That's how I play the army most of the time, minus the Defence Line. You want more than one unit on the table though. Also, once you've dropped one Ambush, don't stop. If your units aren't capping on a flag, locked in CC, about to charge, or getting ready to Summon, then they shouldn't be on the table. That's how you make an army of T3 5+ dudes last for 7 turns - you limit the opponent's opportunities to kill them.

- Had a rough go against a white scars battle company with a decent amount of flamers. This is twice now I've struggled against battle company. The sheer amount of obsec transports protecting the tasty biomass inside meant I was getting return fire on a regular basis. It makes me wonder if I should consider some sort of anti-tank at range or just go even heavier MSU with more claw-morphs.

GSC have no ranged anti-tank. They have some crumby-ass S6-7 shooting on crumby-ass vehicles and units which can't be taken in sufficient numbers, even if you cripple your major strengths - CC, numbers, and Cult Ambush - to try and do it. Acolyte Rending will pop AV10-11 just as easily as Metamorphs will. I'd consider stuffing a buttload more Acolytes into the army before I ever thought about buying upgrades for Neophyte meatshields.

- the first curse did work for me. It seems like a huge point sync, but with the psychic dice I have I can buff it up nicely. It also is a huge intimidation factor.

Right - but I mean, it's 20 Genestealers and a Patriarch. If people don't deal with it it's going to hurt them. The problem with the formation has never been that it sucks or lacks killing power. The problem is it's nowhere near the most efficient use of 400pts in a GSC army, and if you score badly on their Ambush rolls its 400pts that'll never see close combat. You just can't afford to have that much of your army sitting idle, in my book. They're not a great deal tougher or choppier than Acolytes and Metamorphs either.

- I also had a hard time against a riptide wing (with 6 riptides). He combined it with the infiltration cadre, meaning he could deploy off the board with the riptides. As soon as I killed one unit of his infiltration cadre the entire army came in. It kept me from ambushing the riptides. What a brutal army to go against. Had I to do it over, I may have just taken fire, pulled my army off with the exception of one unit and hope that the riptides came in from reserves piecemeal. They're overlapping supporting fire and interceptor is brutal!

Nothing to add here. Tau are a tough prospect, and they're one of the few armies you really need to go first against. Psychic powers help - a single Mass Hypnosis will drop most of their dudes to BS2, which is a big help in keeping the casualties down, Mind Control is unreliable but can be pretty devastating if you land it on a Stormsurge or a powered-up Riptide, and Summoned units don't count as coming in from reserve so they bypass Interceptor. Summoning big Neophyte blobs with Seismic Cannons and Power Pick-swinging Leaders on top of their Suits is a good way to divert their attention quickly. Supporting Fire is one of those things you just have to live with; there are ways to mitigate the damage it does, but it requires a good set of Ambush rolls and some tactical charging tomfoolery.

- My army wasn't fully painted yet so I hadn't had the time to paint markings on the bases to designate which detachment they were from. I put dice next to each to mark, but it made for some slower then I would like decision making and deploying. I like to fade in and out a lot which means I need very visible identification of which unit is which.

Movement trays are the answer. They make the admin much less of a nightmare, especially if your army is unpainted or 90% proxies.

- I'm struggling with the brood cycle. Maybe I'm just not using the iconward effectively (I keep forgetting the furious charge bubble) but he didn't do much. I keep wondering if a neophyte calvacade would speed the game up, and provide more use. Has anyone had positive experiences with the mech portion?

Rule number 1 of Genestealer Cults is: more bodies. That's also rule number 2, 3, 4 and 5. The Neophyte Cavalcade isn't any cheaper than a bare-bones Brood Cycle and demands hundreds of points be spent on vehicles, which suck ass, instead of Acolytes and Metamorphs, which don't. The Cavalcade doesn't plug any of the holes in the GSC Codex - it just opens some new ones by cutting down the number of casualties you can take each turn before you start hurting for dudes.

The Iconward is exactly as useless as the other HQ characters; he exists to eat wounds and provide buffs, and if he spends the whole game doing that then he's done his job. The Brood Cycle is actually a really neat formation once you remember to apply all the buffs the units give to one another; +1WS makes Acolytes and Metamorphs into Genestealers, and the +1Ld often means you can leave the Cycle dudes to fight on their own while your Patriarchs go elsewhere to do other things.

- I'm a fast player but I definitely had to play super fast. I made a cheat sheet that I laminated so I could use a dry erase marker to mark all the spells, effects and reminders. I also created tokens to designate ambush assualt, spell effects, etc. Even with that I felt very rushed playing the game. I need to continue to find time savers, especially if I'm playing an opponent with long phases.

Again, nothing to add here. GSC are a big army with lots of dice, so they take a long time to play. Movement trays speed up the moving and Ambushing, but they don't help with all the dice-rolling you have to do.

So, I played against the new eldar this weekend and thought I'd give my two cents.

As other posts have mentioned, getting seized on is absolutely brutal. So much so that I have started preferring to defer first turn and play the hiding game. Which also guarantees we get in a few more turns before time is an issue. Though maelstrom can be a problem if they run up the score a ton. I generally leave a psyker on the board with a meat shield and they summon a squad for linebreaker or contest an objective the opponent thought they could easily grab.

So, the new eldar. Pretty brutal. Not for the reason you probably think though.

They make close combat eldar a real possibility, banshees, kymeras, even wytches are now possible to field. These are pretty bad for GSC as they go first in close combat with a bunch of attacks, which is pretty much our worse nightmare.

So the army I've moved towards is a
bare bones Broodcycle except for 4 mining lasers with the neophytes

sub up
primus
20x acolytes
5 x acolytes
10 x metamorphs

doting throng
magus
10x acolytes
10x acolytes
10 x acolytes
10 x acolytes

patriarch

CAD
magus
magus
10x neophytes
10x neophytes
CAD
magus
magus
10x neophytes
10x neophytes

So it's 167 models with 60 of them being neophytes. I'm loving the neophytes btw, they really balance out the weak spots of the army.

so for the new eldar, they're going to have units that beat you in assault so you need to gun those down with neophytes or avoid them all together.

Something to keep track off is that the normal strategy of sending in a weakened unit with 1-3 models left to eat overwatch, will no longer work. It will cause a strength from death and probably ruin your day.

(although I just realized I could have moved backwards and tried an 8 inch charge. That would have allowed me to eat overwatch without causing strength from death)

I fought the guy I played to a tie and did it by picking away at the edges of his army. I only assaulted units that were by themselves or I could comfortably multi assault.
I used my lasgun neophtes to kill 2/3 bikes from a jetbike squad. I killed his individual kymeras running around whenever they were outside 7 inches.

It's a much more careful game but totally possible.

I didn't get to use it because my psykers kept dying but using mass hypnosis on eldar close combat units is incredibly effective. They're stuff drops from I5 to 4 and most of it only has 2 attacks so you half the amount of damage coming your way and now you're hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and 2s.

Also the new monstrous creature is brutal against small squads but if you can hit him with a big squad he dies pretty easily. Basically an unbuffed daemon prince. The worst part of the new eldar is they get a really great nova on their chart that several psykers have to roll on. Thankfully I have 12 dice in my army and adwill everywhere so he just kept wasting his psykich phase trying to get me with that.

considering on taking this to adepticon but not sure yet

Cult insurrection detachment
Lord of the cult
115 patriarch, lvl 2
85 magus, lvl 2, crouchling
Brood Cycle
65 iconward
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
55 x5 metomorphs, x1 whip, x4 claw
70 x5 genestealers
Subterranean assault formation #1
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #2
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #3
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #4
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip

100 coteaz

thoughts? it plays cagey and just rolls for summoning with the two characters out of the gsc. coteaz is there for more dice and the reroll seize or anto seize

IVIOOSE wrote:
considering on taking this to adepticon but not sure yet

Cult insurrection detachment
Lord of the cult
115 patriarch, lvl 2
85 magus, lvl 2, crouchling
Brood Cycle
65 iconward
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
55 x5 metomorphs, x1 whip, x4 claw
70 x5 genestealers
Subterranean assault formation #1
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #2
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #3
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #4
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip

100 coteaz

thoughts? it plays cagey and just rolls for summoning with the two characters out of the gsc. coteaz is there for more dice and the reroll seize or anto seize

I've you don't get first turn then your in trouble. You are forced to deploy the subterranean uprising and only got 1 fearless bubble in the whole army. If you always deploy in their face then a reroll seize is not reliable. If you want to do this then It's better to put the Patriarch + 2x acolytes in a CAD because then you can reroll on the strategic trait and that doubles your chance for +1 seize. Patriarch can join the genestealers with first turn shrouded anyway.

Also, 6 warpcharge is a bit weak even if you do get summoning. I would trade a single subterranean uprising for;

CAD
- (add Patriarch)
- magus 65
- neophytes 50
- neophytes 50
- defence line 50

You got 75 points left. I would use that to upgrade that magus for another Patriarch or simply add another subterranean uprising unit.

I like it. It's pretty much exactly what I'd run if I had the models. I'd consider bumping a neophyte unit up to 20 to hide the patriarch in in exchange for one sub up squad?

Another option could be to use some of the codex: inquisition henchmen warbands for cheap warp charge. Two acolytes with bolters plus a psyker is 20pts, which would be an easy way to boost some charges

How do you take just coteaz? Doesn't he need a detachment?

he is his own detachment in inqusition. silly i know right lol

I thought you needed to have him in an inquisition detachment which is an HQ and an elite.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever played a GSC vs GSC game? that sounds like a complete hilarious nightmare. I'm interested to hear how it went.

I did once versus a Genestealer-spam army; two First Curses, a bunch of random Purestrain units and a couple of SubUps with Primuses. It was... not fun. We only managed two and a half turns in two hours of playing. I didn't have the hitting power to kill his Stealers, but he didn't have the Warp Charge to stop me Summoning, so we ended up in a gakky stalemate where I was trying to goad him into charging his Stealers into awkward positions and he was trying to maneuver around all the Summoned crap to assault the stuff I was trying to protect. I had him 6-2 on the Maelstrom objective, but I was 4 or 5 behind on KPs by the end of his third turn and there was no way I could've won that.

I've had a couple of GSC vs GSC games.
Deployment was very interesting. Positioning and counter-positioning. Holding back on your more valuable units until the opponent has played out theirs. Capitalizing on mistakes in enemy placements. Blocking RTTS.
It's practically a game before the game has started.

Both games were in a doubles tournament I went to recently. 800 points per player, 1600 per side. I was GSC paired with necrons. Both games I had against GSC were against double GSC.

I was playing Brood Cycle + a Sub Up (2 units of acolytes, 2 of claw morphs), a patriarch and a magus.
Necron allies were 2 units of three wraiths, a big 9 man lychguard unit with a cryptek (with the teleportation artifact), and a couple of units of immortals.


The GSC in the first game I played had invested in big units. A first curse, a 20 man acolyte blob, a bunch of 5 man units loaded with upgrades like saws and hand flamers.

We were going first.
They rolled a 6 for their warlord trait, so dropped the first curse in front of the lychguard deathstar. Their 20 man acolyte unit rolled a 6, and went next to it.

I also rolled a 6 for my warlord trait. After their 20 man acolyte blob was baited out, I put my patriarch + 5 genestealers next to it.

On turn 1, my patriarch + genies charged the 20 man acolyte unit, and a unit of necron wraiths hit it from the other side.
I killed 15 guys on the charge, and the wraiths mopped up the other 5. Purestrains really do tear through acolytes.

They drastically underestimated how tough lychguard are. Our lychguard charged their first curse (the other unit of wraiths came along too), took 2 casualties, then killed about 7 genestealers. The wraiths killed another 4 or 5.

After that, the rest of the game was just about mopping up survivors.



The second game didn't go our way. The opponents were playing MSU cult. They rolled summoning on pretty much all their psykers. I didn't get it at all. They got to go first.

I made the huge mistake of making my (non sub-up) units cult ambush against a superior GSC force.
This meant that they got to go first, and then on my first turn I still could not assault except with units that rolled a 6.
This allowed them to show up, shoot every unit of mine that rolled a 6, charge some of my units, and then I could not counter charge until turn 2.
Deploying my forces normally would have given me a vastly stronger counter charge.

Despite all this, we still managed to play to the objectives well, and came close to winning it. The 20 man neophyte blobs being repeatedly summoned all around the board proved too much in the end though.

With people using GSC and Nids allied, are they remembering the shadow in the warp rule? or just conveniently forgetting about it?

while I guess with a Patriarch around it isn't much of an issue but could be a problem with perils rolls

vercingatorix wrote:I thought you needed to have him in an inquisition detachment which is an HQ and an elite.

True, but that detachment requires a minimum single HQ (so thats coteaz right there) and can add another HQ and 0-3 elites.

Arson Fire wrote:I've had a couple of GSC vs GSC games.

GSC versus GSC is all about the initiative and I'am not only referring to the Initiative in close combat. It's not about lucky '6' result on the cult ambush but about the right counter attack at the right time. Psychic powers are a big deal and can really shift the balance. If you got GSC + necron versus full GSC it is even better to just walk forward and be prepared to take incoming '6' results and counterattack from that point on. Don't be afraid to lose something and don't be afraid to counterattack a big genestealer unit with numbers.

But if the enemy GSC army got summoning and you don't then that is a tough cookie.

IVIOOSE wrote:
considering on taking this to adepticon but not sure yet

Cult insurrection detachment
Lord of the cult
115 patriarch, lvl 2
85 magus, lvl 2, crouchling
Brood Cycle
65 iconward
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
50 x10 neophytes, shotguns
55 x5 metomorphs, x1 whip, x4 claw
70 x5 genestealers
Subterranean assault formation #1
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #2
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #3
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
Subterranean assault formation #4
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
40 x5 acolytes
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip
55 x5 metomorphs, x4 claw, x1 whip

100 coteaz

thoughts? it plays cagey and just rolls for summoning with the two characters out of the gsc. coteaz is there for more dice and the reroll seize or anto seize

This list is pretty close to the one I have planned for when I get the time to paint a hundred+ models. One thing you need to bear in mind though is your sub uprisings have to deploy on the board - that's 120 models you need to place, and likely another few from the brood cycle to hide the patriarch and iconward in to buff morale. Not only is that going to take ages but it'll occupy a huge amount of space and could mean you are forced to bunch up - unless you go first, this could be a big problem. Like shogun said I'd be inclined to swap a sub uprising (and possibly the third acolyte unit in your uprisings) for a CAD to get another fearless bubble, more psychic powers, some obsec and a defence line that gives you a good deployment option when going second.