Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So do you think there is any chance of a hypothetical alliance between the two factions?

I ask because we all know the eventual end times are a coming, and with that, im expecting an AoS ish condensing of factions potentially seeing things like death, order, chaos and destruction. Now this is all spit balling and hypotheticals but i could see Gee Dubs rolling Tau, IoM, and Eldar into a single order faction.

So with that preface, what do you think would need to happen for a eldar IoM alliance? Im not talking battle brother, kinda alliance, more of, we are on good terms sort of thing. This is not questioning if the end time will or will not happen or if the factions will become a thing.

Imo, so what ever that is worth, I could see it happening in one of two ways

1) big E comes back and realizes while yes, the Eldar are donkey-caves, they are our donkey-caves, and during his vacation in the warp he realized this and decided its better to keep them then fight them.

2) Russ finally comes back from the warp and ended up rescuing Isha from nurgals garden in his rumored quest to find the tree of life in the warp. Eldar fertility is restored at the hands of the Space marines and they end up owing us the existence of their race. (This one is a long shot head fanon)

What do you guys think? Think it could happen? would happen? if so how?

It would take the Eldar to stop being such collosal douchebags and for the greater Imperium to understand the distinction between Eldar, DEldar and Eldar pirates.

So basically it would never happen.

On top of the Imperium not wanting to purge all xenos, the Eldar would have to stop being the manipulative, secretive, not-caring-about-other-races bastards they are. Basically, they have to stop sacrificing humanity to save their own hides. Which I doubt will ever happen.

There is a lot of history of Eldar being tricksy xenos scum and throwing the IoM under the bus just to save a few of their own. That kind of thing does not get forgotten overnight, especially for a massive, tradition-loving, bureaucratic entity like the imperium. It’s also worth remembering that neither the IoM or the Eldar are homogenous. One craft world might be willing to ally closer, but another is probably just going to keep on killing humans when it suits them. And that’s just the craftworlds, not the other sub-factions.

I think Eldar and humanity are pretty much iconic “Allies of Convenience”. Overall, they have the same enemies (Chaos, necrons, orks, nids, etc.) and will generally stand shoulder to shoulder against such foes. But that does not mean that they are friends. And both sides will turn on the other when it suits their general interests.

Too much bad blood between the two, I think. Both likely have hundreds if not thousands of legitimate grievances against the other.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
2) Russ finally comes back from the warp and ended up rescuing Isha from nurgals garden in his rumored quest to find the tree of life in the warp. Eldar fertility is restored at the hands of the Space marines and they end up owing us the existence of their race. (This one is a long shot head fanon)

I doubt that the low birthrate is caused by any biological issue with fertility - especially not when you consider the incredible technology at their disposal. It's more likely that the low fertility rate is linked to a general unwillingness to bring more eldar into existence. After all, eldar know full well that any child they create would, at best, live for centuries of self-imposed deprivation asceticism, and would then spend an eternity either trapped in a wraithbone prison, or being tortured in hell.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So do you think there is any chance of a hypothetical alliance between the two factions?

I ask because we all know the eventual end times are a coming, and with that, im expecting an AoS ish condensing of factions potentially seeing things like death, order, chaos and destruction. Now this is all spit balling and hypotheticals but i could see Gee Dubs rolling Tau, IoM, and Eldar into a single order faction.

I mean Gee Dubs could roll all the other factions into forces of evil or something. From the next galaxy over, forces of good want to keep the IoM alive while everyone else wants to see them fall. That would really be glossing over Orks, DE, Necron, Chaos, and Tyranid motivation, but yes they all want the IoM to end, so roll them together.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Im not talking battle brother, kinda alliance, more of, we are on good terms sort of thing. This is not questioning if the end time will or will not happen or if the factions will become a thing.

1) big E comes back and realizes while yes, the Eldar are a--holes, they are our a--holes, and during his vacation in the warp he realized this and decided its better to keep them then fight them.

2) Russ finally comes back from the warp and ended up rescuing Isha from nurgals garden in his rumored quest to find the tree of life in the warp. Eldar fertility is restored at the hands of the Space marines and they end up owing us the existence of their race. (This one is a long shot head fanon)

If big E comes back, humanity would have no need for the Eldar. He would quickly right everythign that is wrong with the IoM and steamroll all his enemies, just like he did in the great crusade.

Russ coming back would probably do more harm to the IoM than him staying away, as I doubt the high lords would cede control to Russ. Also not sure Russ's leadership is better than the High Lords either.

Eldar fertility is not broken, it's a feature not a bug. When you are practically immoral you have to have something keeping you from having tons of kids or you will rapidly face overpopulation. The Eldar child also needs centuries to attain the control, discipline, and exprience to really be amazing at anything, so creating a bunch of Eldar does nothing short term.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

So with that preface, what do you think would need to happen for a eldar IoM alliance?

The high lords of terra would need to be convinced that Craftworld eldar are completely different from Dark Eldar and other forms. They would then need to be able to differenciate between the different craftwords, some of which want to kill all humans, others of which are into literal necromancy, and some of which do not talk to each other and find a unified Craftword eldar voice.

Then they would need to be convinced that not only are Eldar older and wiser than Humans, but that they are better leaders. Then they would need to cede control of the IoM to the Eldar and convince all their underlings that Eldar are actually better rulers and that IoM is basically over.

Dont see it happening.

Eldar are perfectly capable of producing large numbers of offspring artificially. That's what the Dark Eldar do - most of them are grown in vats and looked down upon by the noble 'Trueborn' who are conceived the normal, messy way.

The Craftworld Eldar don't grow babies that because that was one of the many evils associated with the Fall. All of their babies are made the way Isha intended, so they're stuck with the low birthrate, long gestation, and longer maturation periods (compared to humans) that Eldar naturally have.

On an individual basis? Sure. It's happened - repeatedly.

On a permenant, faction-wide basis? Not a chance.

Quite aside from the philosophical/religious problems, the craftworlds can't all agree on one course of action, and trying to imagine the Imperium all lining up on a single decision and sticking by it is a bad joke.

if they combined all the factions I imagine they'd combine the IoM into one faction, and the eldar into another faction. right now Eldar have 3 distinct factions (and thats not even including cosairs) the IoM has 5 or 6 distinct factions (that's counts all space marines as adeptus astartes, the admech armies as adeptus mechanicus etc if you wanna go by CODEX COUNT the IoM has 13) thats big eneugh without having to butcher the lore too heavily.

There are elements of both factions that would never accept an alliance even on a short term basis however I do believe you can get the majority of craftworlds and some pirate factions on board with a long term alliance when you apply more overwhelming external pressures on both factions.

Out of all the different factions, Eldar and Imperial alliances have seemed to be the most common albeit all of these have been on the short term. It comes down to the fact that the Imperium is unimaginably dumb and Zeno-phobic whist the Eldar are so arrogant it defies logic. So in order to create a longer lasting alliance to both factions (outside of the influence of Gods and Primarchs) is to provide an incredibly potent and consistent threat to both factions that neither can deal with alone. Something like a constant Black Crusade featuring innumerable daemons and heretics or if so many of the Tyranids turned up that they couldn't be redirected.

...essentially if the proverbial clock did actually hit midnight and 40k had reached an end times type scenario, I could imagine these guys going out swinging together...

 Torus wrote:


...essentially if the proverbial clock did actually hit midnight and 40k had reached an end times type scenario, I could imagine these guys going out swinging together...

In an end of times scenerio you might find a lot of otherwise enemies going out swinging together. It really depends on what is bringing the end of times

Huge Ork Invasion of Terra:
CWEldar and Tau consider helping, but only at the last minute.
DE order popcorn and watch.
Necrons/Chaos/Nids try to join in.

Chaos invasion of Terra:
CWEldar provide some assistance
Tau consider helping, but only at the last minute
Orks decide to invade somewhere else.
DE run and hide
Nids try to join in
Necrons try to seal the eye of terror.

Necron attempt to destroy Terra:
CWE and DE both provide some assistance
Tau consider helping, but only at the last minute.
Orks dont know what to do.
Nids dont even know what is happening
Chaos considered helping defend Terra(as a machine dominated universe is not good for the Gods)

Nid Invasion of Terra:
CWE and DE both provide some assistance, CWE more than DE
Tau help as it is the most clear greater good of all scenerios
Orks might even help
Chaos tries to find a way to corrupt 'nids
Necrons wait for the Hivefleet to do it's work and pass through.

In my opinion, several Exodite worlds can become full-time Imperial, given the circumstances. The Craftworlds though, are full of ignorant idiots, and I can't see any kind of long-term alliance with them.

Its possible, however unlikely. An eldar/imperial alliance would require the eldar to unify, and it would take generations to earn the imperials trust and vice versa. The imperium and eldar are constantly backstabbing each other on occasions where they do team up and unfortunately they're both arrogant to a point of stupidity. I like the idea of these two factions patching things up enough to at least be at peace, but with humanities xenophobia peace would be nigh impossible. Especially given that the imperium wouldn't care about eldar losses and wouldn't allow them to simply work in the background. Theres alot of benefits to an alliance, and it gets teased alot but I can't see it happening without extreme desperation on both sides.

Eldar do not fall under one culture or government, so no, and Eldar/Imperium alliance is technically impossible.

That's like asking if a city can be aligned with Asia.

There are numerous examples of semi friendly eldar human interactions. But both races don't really care that much about each other resulting in imminent and foreseen betrayal. And it doesn't really help that humans like really to tinker with stuff that spells the doom for all who just happen to be in the same galaxy as them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IoM humans are like the annoying kids of your neighbour who like to bully the other kids in the neighbourhood, just keep breaking in your gun safe and can't stop feeding the raccoons. Sure you could do some things together but would you really want to ?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It would take the Eldar to stop being such collosal douchebags and for the greater Imperium to understand the distinction between Eldar, DEldar and Eldar pirates.

So basically it would never happen.

Lol if anything it would take the IMPERIUM to stop being such colossal douchebags (you know, the nazi organization that kills anything that isn't human just because they can?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
There is a lot of history of Eldar being tricksy xenos scum and throwing the IoM under the bus just to save a few of their own. That kind of thing does not get forgotten overnight, especially for a massive, tradition-loving, bureaucratic entity like the imperium. It’s also worth remembering that neither the IoM or the Eldar are homogenous. One craft world might be willing to ally closer, but another is probably just going to keep on killing humans when it suits them. And that’s just the craftworlds, not the other sub-factions.

I think Eldar and humanity are pretty much iconic “Allies of Convenience”. Overall, they have the same enemies (Chaos, necrons, orks, nids, etc.) and will generally stand shoulder to shoulder against such foes. But that does not mean that they are friends. And both sides will turn on the other when it suits their general interests.

Lol and the same can't be said for the imperium? Is that a joke? Why do people ALWAYS complain about the eldar doing these things yet ignore the fact the imperium is much worse? Hell the imperium humans are basically nazis.

Mental Surge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
There is a lot of history of Eldar being tricksy xenos scum and throwing the IoM under the bus just to save a few of their own. That kind of thing does not get forgotten overnight, especially for a massive, tradition-loving, bureaucratic entity like the imperium. It’s also worth remembering that neither the IoM or the Eldar are homogenous. One craft world might be willing to ally closer, but another is probably just going to keep on killing humans when it suits them. And that’s just the craftworlds, not the other sub-factions.

I think Eldar and humanity are pretty much iconic “Allies of Convenience”. Overall, they have the same enemies (Chaos, necrons, orks, nids, etc.) and will generally stand shoulder to shoulder against such foes. But that does not mean that they are friends. And both sides will turn on the other when it suits their general interests.

Lol and the same can't be said for the imperium? Is that a joke? Why do people ALWAYS complain about the eldar doing these things yet ignore the fact the imperium is much worse? Hell the imperium humans are basically nazis.

Oh, there is quite a bit of bad blood on both sides of the fence, no doubt. I think the IoM is a little more honest about it though. One of their stated goals is the eradication of all sentient xenos life. Any deal with non-humans is a one-shot exception, with no long term implications. “We fight together today, but if I see you tomorrow, I’ll be forced to kill you”

Eldar also have a long tradition of long term shenanigans. So they might help you defend your world today, knowing that in 100 years, the fact that it remains strong will lure a massive Wagggh into the sector, burning it, and a dozen other worlds, rather then head towards and exodite planet a few stars over.

Which is why they can’t be trusted.

And yes, no faction in 40k is anything resembling “good” or “nice” by a modern standard. Welcome to the grimdark.

Back in 3rd edition there was an Alaitoc vs Ulthwe battle report in White Dwarf. The fluff for the battle was that the Imperium had established an outpost on a Maiden world. One craftworld's farseers had farseen that in a centuries time the Imperium would turn it into a polluted industrial world so decided to wipe out the fledgeling colony to prevent it. They were intercepted by the other craftworld whose farseers had seen that in five hundred years the world would serve as bastion from which not just humanity but all races would strike back against The Great Devourer. So there's at least canon precedent for the possibility of a major alliance.

In short no. While people like to insult Eldar, their goal is exceptionally simple: the survival of their race at all costs. Something I'd consider plenty laudable.

Eldar have been willing allies since 40K began, though they were more pirates/mercenaries at the beginning. However, that alliance is always subject to change when the Eldar foresee a negative impact on their craftworld or the Eldar as a whole.

So any alliance only lasts as long as the Eldar don't see a negative outcome. The Eldar could be allies for decades in a single conflict, until someone/somewhere in the Imperium makes a decision (or is born!) that will eventually inflict some harm on the Eldar - boom, alliance broken, etc.

In an ideal situation the Imperium would have to acknowledge this and work with the Eldar closely to avoid this kind of situation (possibly even working with them to root out potential threats). The xenos-hatred would probably not allow this. You'd have to get some seriously ballsy Inquisitor or something who'd be willing to actually communicate/work alongside the Farseers of a Craftworld, and actively suppress dangerous people/humans/units/etc.

The idea of Eldar and the Imperium back to back fighting off the end of the universe is neat...however the Eldar would instantly turn on the Imperium if they saw a glimmer of hope that killing them off would somehow stave off destruction of the Eldar.

 Nevelon wrote:

Mental Surge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
There is a lot of history of Eldar being tricksy xenos scum and throwing the IoM under the bus just to save a few of their own. That kind of thing does not get forgotten overnight, especially for a massive, tradition-loving, bureaucratic entity like the imperium. It’s also worth remembering that neither the IoM or the Eldar are homogenous. One craft world might be willing to ally closer, but another is probably just going to keep on killing humans when it suits them. And that’s just the craftworlds, not the other sub-factions.

I think Eldar and humanity are pretty much iconic “Allies of Convenience”. Overall, they have the same enemies (Chaos, necrons, orks, nids, etc.) and will generally stand shoulder to shoulder against such foes. But that does not mean that they are friends. And both sides will turn on the other when it suits their general interests.

Lol and the same can't be said for the imperium? Is that a joke? Why do people ALWAYS complain about the eldar doing these things yet ignore the fact the imperium is much worse? Hell the imperium humans are basically nazis.

Oh, there is quite a bit of bad blood on both sides of the fence, no doubt. I think the IoM is a little more honest about it though. One of their stated goals is the eradication of all sentient xenos life. Any deal with non-humans is a one-shot exception, with no long term implications. “We fight together today, but if I see you tomorrow, I’ll be forced to kill you”

Eldar also have a long tradition of long term shenanigans. So they might help you defend your world today, knowing that in 100 years, the fact that it remains strong will lure a massive Wagggh into the sector, burning it, and a dozen other worlds, rather then head towards and exodite planet a few stars over.

Which is why they can’t be trusted.

And yes, no faction in 40k is anything resembling “good” or “nice” by a modern standard. Welcome to the grimdark.

By that logic, no race can be trusted so why even say it? And no kididng this is grimdark. My point is that the imperium is a nazi organization and everyone seems to forget that.

I don't think anyone forgets that. It's just an environment where that is... common and accepted.

Mental Surge wrote:


By that logic, no race can be trusted so why even say it? And no kididng this is grimdark. My point is that the imperium is a nazi organization and everyone seems to forget that.

I think even the Nazi's would hate to be compared with the 40k IoM. Like seriously they might be the most repulsive group in the 2nd milienium but they would be upstanding beacons of light in the 41st millenium.

Commenting on the OP's question.

The end times have to happen.

Chaos has to breach the material realm, the great final battle they have foreseen has to be on their door step. Even then this is a coalition with an immediate goal, not long term.


The Craftworld, exodite, and Dark eldar all see humanity as we would if you left your house because of a hurricane then came back to find that a bunch of raccoons have taken up residence and completely wrecked the place and then kill some of your family as you walk in the door.


Interestingly while i think an alliance highly unlikely if it were to happen the primary beneficiary of such an alliance wouldn't be the imperium, but rather the Eldar.

The most immediate threat to each craftworld and exodite worlds existence is the imperium. If they stop fighting each other the Eldar have a chance to rebuild and stop the bleeding so speak and maybe even get their population problem sorted out on the craftowrlds that aren't stuck by the eye of terror.

With that in mind there is very little the Eldar have to offer the imperium materially which is what they desperately need right now. And even if they did ally i don't see the Eldar letting the Humans use the Webway. It's their greatest advantage over everyone and something they won't part with for fear of it being used against them as it leads to each craftworld.

So yea as i see it this deal is very lopsided and likely to fail the moment a viable external threat ceases to exsist. There is literally nothing in it for the imperium.

Russ finally comes back from the warp and ended up rescuing Isha from nurgals garden in his rumored quest to find the tree of life in the warp

Sigh - Epic Romance ensues

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So with that preface, what do you think would need to happen for a eldar IoM alliance? Im not talking battle brother, kinda alliance, more of, we are on good terms sort of thing. This is not questioning if the end time will or will not happen or if the factions will become a thing.

What it needs to happen? GW deciding so. They can then write it however they wish including rewriting IOM and Eldar fluff if needs be.