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For those who own units of Diaz Daemonettes, or in my case a ten-squad GW Tanith army, there's a small reassurance that if we needed cash quickly, we could get some return on that. Not a profit, just a chunk of cash that could be accessed in hard times.
Well there's your problem then. Don't look at miniatures (or MTG cards, etc) as an investment. If you consider the money lost the moment you spend it on the thing you want, much like buying a meal at a nice restaurant, you won't have this problem. And if insurance pays out the current value of the models you can buy replacement copies at the current price. And, after all, the point of insurance is being able to get your stuff back, not to have the opportunity to cash in your investments all at once.
No, my "problem" is other people telling me what my attitude to my hobby should be, or is.
I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times. I know people who collect certain types of pottery.
Both are valid, both have and will yield results.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
Buttery Commissar wrote: I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times.
That is a really, really stupid thing to do. Those cards could crash in value overnight and leave them with nothing, so that "insurance" is pretty much worthless. If you actually need an investment as insurance against hard times (as opposed to "well, it might be nice to cash out of this hobby so I can buy the next one") you put that money into low-risk bank investments and spend a bit of money at your local print shop to make some proxies to play the game with.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
Of course it's unrealistic. GW never promised that those 20 year old models would never be produced again, nor did they promise not to release similar ones in the future that might greatly reduce demand for the old stuff. And they certainly didn't promise to go out of business, killing off the market for 40k/WHFB miniatures in general and leaving them in the same "cheap nostalgia" pile on ebay as other toys from 20 years ago. The only reason to expect them to retain any value is your own assumption that the models sold badly enough that GW won't have any interest in bringing them back. And if you put any serious amount of money at stake in that assumption you're making a huge mistake.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Buttery Commissar wrote: I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times.
That is a really, really stupid thing to do. Those cards could crash in value overnight and leave them with nothing, so that "insurance" is pretty much worthless. If you actually need an investment as insurance against hard times (as opposed to "well, it might be nice to cash out of this hobby so I can buy the next one") you put that money into low-risk bank investments and spend a bit of money at your local print shop to make some proxies to play the game with.
I'm going to go ahead and side with the people who make their living and keep their savings in these cards. On a busy, new release weekend, a store can take 25-75k on MTG boxes. I think folk involved at this point know roughly what their own market is.
I'm not saying I do, but I am saying you don't either. Calling people really really stupid for something we don't know about, is fairly pointless. It's their gamble, someone who can afford thousands of pounds of investment in cards, are likely aware when they're handling a £2k folder, that things come and go.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
Of course it's unrealistic. GW never promised that those 20 year old models would never be produced again, nor did they promise not to release similar ones in the future that might greatly reduce demand for the old stuff. And they certainly didn't promise to go out of business, killing off the market for 40k/WHFB miniatures in general and leaving them in the same "cheap nostalgia" pile on ebay as other toys from 20 years ago. The only reason to expect them to retain any value is your own assumption that the models sold badly enough that GW won't have any interest in bringing them back. And if you put any serious amount of money at stake in that assumption you're making a huge mistake.
Well, "reasonable" was the pivotal word in that sentence, but if you wish to continue rattling your can, please take it up with someone who actually has issue with models being re-released. I gave an explanation as to why people do, and why it's not all about "scalping"; some folk will just be left feeling sore. I also said I thought it was good to see stuff coming back.
Honestly, I love to see anything that encourages people to get together and game. Having parents show kids stuff they had themselves can be one of those.
Buttery Commissar wrote: No, my "problem" is other people telling me what my attitude to my hobby should be, or is.
I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times. I know people who collect certain types of pottery.
Both are valid, both have and will yield results.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
Nobody is telling you what your attitude should be. You're a funny kid, but reasonable people are telling you that your opinion is poorly-formed and not grounded in reality, and you should listen to them.
Those people are stupid. CCGs are not insurance. Nor are pottery. Both have virtually zero intrinsic value, and the idea of using them to make rent or buy food is laughable.
If that 20-year-old item isn't a gold Rolex watch, it's almost certainly going to depreciate in value. Expecting a toy to retain value is pretty unrealistic outside of some pretty specific circumstances. Most of this toy stuff is just windhandel, liable to collapse at a moment's notice. If you want something to gain value in 20 years, it had better be have some real value to it.
For those who own units of Diaz Daemonettes, or in my case a ten-squad GW Tanith army, there's a small reassurance that if we needed cash quickly, we could get some return on that. Not a profit, just a chunk of cash that could be accessed in hard times.
Well there's your problem then. Don't look at miniatures (or MTG cards, etc) as an investment. If you consider the money lost the moment you spend it on the thing you want, much like buying a meal at a nice restaurant, you won't have this problem. And if insurance pays out the current value of the models you can buy replacement copies at the current price. And, after all, the point of insurance is being able to get your stuff back, not to have the opportunity to cash in your investments all at once.
No, my "problem" is other people telling me what my attitude to my hobby should be, or is.
I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times. I know people who collect certain types of pottery.
Both are valid, both have and will yield results.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
It's very selfish though to demand GW NOT provide models for others that want just so that you get to make money out of it.
You put yourself over other gamers(and GW).
Besides there's better insurances like investing that gives you more certain and better profit without expecting other gamers to be hurt for you to benefit.
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Buttery Commissar wrote: I'm not saying I do, but I am saying you don't either. Calling people really really stupid for something we don't know about, is fairly pointless. It's their gamble, someone who can afford thousands of pounds of investment in cards, are likely aware when they're handling a £2k folder, that things come and go.
Sure. But don't cry foul then if company releases them again making value of your cards fall.
You took risk. One that's not even needed since there's safer ways to make more money in real investing over cards/miniatures.
Invest in cards/miniatures if you want. Just don't demand company never release those again thus hurting your collection. Rereleasing wanted miniatures/card is GOOD as it gives customers chance to get the models for reasonable prices. Somebody got burned by taking risk and investing them to make money...Well they took risk. They got burned. Happens when you invest in risky business. Don't do that if you aren't prepared to see your investement value to drop below what you paid.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/07 06:42:11
This is all incredibly premature though. We're just getting reprints of the Necrosphinx, Pegasus Knights and so on, certainly nothing earlier than that, and absolutely nothing originally cast in metal - GW barely has the capacity to cast those kind of moulds anymore and they've wanted to get rid of anything not plastic for close to a decade now.
Wow, someone is actually standing up for scalpers on eBay. That's new.
Someone watched too much Storage Hunters (or other similar show, where people buy old trash and sell it to collectors).
I'm really happy to hear, that such a service will exist. I have quite a few OOP minis in my shopping list. I wouldn't hold my breath too much though: while some will be fortunate enough to see their desired minis on the website yet again, most of us won't, sadly :(
Id buy :
-commissar with bolt pistol
-vostroyan OOP miniatures
-daemonettes
-skink chief with ccw and shield
- various Dogs of war stuff
-OOP inquistion minis...
Realistically, it might only be IG stuff..
Agamemnon2 wrote: This is all incredibly premature though. We're just getting reprints of the Necrosphinx, Pegasus Knights and so on, certainly nothing earlier than that, and absolutely nothing originally cast in metal - GW barely has the capacity to cast those kind of moulds anymore and they've wanted to get rid of anything not plastic for close to a decade now.
No offence but is that guessing or has it been reported somewhere?
I've got hundreds of WHFB2, 3 and RT-era models. I've got many more hundreds if we're moving it up to when things like Tanith and Diaz Daemonettes were released. Some painted, some unpainted, most opened but some still MIB etc.
I've paid eBay prices for models I wanted in the way back then that I never got (original Dragon Ogre, etc). I have 2 of Sgt Centurious, and a decent number of rare and collector's models, and even a couple of unreleased ones. RTB01, "Turtle" Terminators, Squats, old discontinued FW. Original GS Cult stuff, I don't have everything ever released by a long shot, but I've got many more than any normal person. But... they're just my minis. They're not an investment or anything I plan to ever sell.
I give zero feths if GW re-releases any and all of those models, including the rate things like Sgt Centurious. More power to anyone who wants to get hold of them, and I'm sure I'd pick up quite a few more of things I've got, and pick up more of the older stuff that I still want - without paying "oldhammer" eBay scalper prices.
Agamemnon2 wrote: This is all incredibly premature though. We're just getting reprints of the Necrosphinx, Pegasus Knights and so on, certainly nothing earlier than that, and absolutely nothing originally cast in metal - GW barely has the capacity to cast those kind of moulds anymore and they've wanted to get rid of anything not plastic for close to a decade now.
No offence but is that guessing or has it been reported somewhere?
It's no more guessing than people expecting Squats, Pygmies, Arbites and Zoats. And erring on the side of caution is never the wrong move to make. At any rate, reading what little info we have about the thing from those GW facebook posts carefully, one can end up with the impression they only refer to recently discontinued models, not ancient kits from several decades ago. As for offence, friend, you couldn't offend me if you tried.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/07 08:09:36
Azazelx wrote: I've got hundreds of WHFB2, 3 and RT-era models. I've got many more hundreds if we're moving it up to when things like Tanith and Diaz Daemonettes were released. Some painted, some unpainted, most opened but some still MIB etc.
I've paid eBay prices for models I wanted in the way back then that I never got (original Dragon Ogre, etc). I have 2 of Sgt Centurious, and a decent number of rare and collector's models, and even a couple of unreleased ones. RTB01, "Turtle" Terminators, Squats, old discontinued FW. Original GS Cult stuff, I don't have everything ever released by a long shot, but I've got many more than any normal person. But... they're just my minis. They're not an investment or anything I plan to ever sell.
I give zero feths if GW re-releases any and all of those models, including the rate things like Sgt Centurious. More power to anyone who wants to get hold of them, and I'm sure I'd pick up quite a few more of things I've got, and pick up more of the older stuff that I still want - without paying "oldhammer" eBay scalper prices.
Exactly! And I can see the word feths when I quote?
The GW hobby has become the hobby for people who like owning stuff other people don't have. I have boxes and boxes of oop print stuff and am overjoyed at the prospect of other people getting the chance to enjoy those awesome sculpts just as much as I do. Definitely a step in the right direction from GW to shed its toxic fan base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/07 08:26:30
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
Agamemnon2 wrote: This is all incredibly premature though. We're just getting reprints of the Necrosphinx, Pegasus Knights and so on, certainly nothing earlier than that, and absolutely nothing originally cast in metal - GW barely has the capacity to cast those kind of moulds anymore and they've wanted to get rid of anything not plastic for close to a decade now.
No offence but is that guessing or has it been reported somewhere?
Logical guess presumably but when there's will there's a way. Question isn't can GW do it. Question is is it profitable enough for them? If yes then they can bring back stuff from older stuff. Maybe not every model ever released but a lot.
At first I don't expect super old models but if GW deems there's enough demand to justify it then why not? If it's profitable enough then they would be burning down money if they didn't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/07 08:36:32
Buttery Commissar wrote: I know people who have and will, use folders of CCG as insurance against hard times.
That is a really, really stupid thing to do. Those cards could crash in value overnight and leave them with nothing, so that "insurance" is pretty much worthless. If you actually need an investment as insurance against hard times (as opposed to "well, it might be nice to cash out of this hobby so I can buy the next one") you put that money into low-risk bank investments and spend a bit of money at your local print shop to make some proxies to play the game with.
I'm going to go ahead and side with the people who make their living and keep their savings in these cards. On a busy, new release weekend, a store can take 25-75k on MTG boxes. I think folk involved at this point know roughly what their own market is.
I'm not saying I do, but I am saying you don't either. Calling people really really stupid for something we don't know about, is fairly pointless. It's their gamble, someone who can afford thousands of pounds of investment in cards, are likely aware when they're handling a £2k folder, that things come and go.
Expecting a now twenty year old item to retain reasonable value rather than decrease is not unrealistic.
Of course it's unrealistic. GW never promised that those 20 year old models would never be produced again, nor did they promise not to release similar ones in the future that might greatly reduce demand for the old stuff. And they certainly didn't promise to go out of business, killing off the market for 40k/WHFB miniatures in general and leaving them in the same "cheap nostalgia" pile on ebay as other toys from 20 years ago. The only reason to expect them to retain any value is your own assumption that the models sold badly enough that GW won't have any interest in bringing them back. And if you put any serious amount of money at stake in that assumption you're making a huge mistake.
Well, "reasonable" was the pivotal word in that sentence, but if you wish to continue rattling your can, please take it up with someone who actually has issue with models being re-released. I gave an explanation as to why people do, and why it's not all about "scalping"; some folk will just be left feeling sore. I also said I thought it was good to see stuff coming back.
Honestly, I love to see anything that encourages people to get together and game. Having parents show kids stuff they had themselves can be one of those.
When it comes down to it miniature games and card games are a niche market and in 20 years it could be gone again, and those people will sit on stuff that is worth zero money, invest in well appreciated art like Picasso or Van Gogh, or rare metals, or rare cars, but our hobby is in the big schemes of things just a fad.
Agamemnon2 wrote: This is all incredibly premature though. We're just getting reprints of the Necrosphinx, Pegasus Knights and so on, certainly nothing earlier than that, and absolutely nothing originally cast in metal - GW barely has the capacity to cast those kind of moulds anymore and they've wanted to get rid of anything not plastic for close to a decade now.
But what will happen to the market value of my three Pegasi knights and the rare OOP mint condition collector's item Necropshinx head I have? Or my Diaznettes? I have, err, at least six, but I think I got some more when I bought some metal Bloodletters on ebay. Am I rich now?
More serious, I'd LOVE to get a Necrosphinx after dallying on buyit it for years. It's sooo badass.
Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.
For people saying metal/classic models are impossible, look at that Blood Bowl star players set that was available at the Warhammer World tournament earlier in the year. A lot of the moulds have been destroyed lost, but it's not impossible that some classics will pop up in their original format.
xowainx wrote:For people saying metal/classic models are impossible, look at that Blood Bowl star players set that was available at the Warhammer World tournament earlier in the year. A lot of the moulds have been destroyed lost, but it's not impossible that some classics will pop up in their original format.
RazorEdge wrote:The Lotr models are all re-released in the material they were last produced. I await the same here.
Good points and good news!
I sand by my prediction of limited re releases of certain sets.
If they're smart they will incorporate some sort of pre-order/request/lobbying system.
MaxT wrote: Honestly, this is why i feel sorry for GW sometimes. The expectations of some of you lot are fething ridiculous.
I think a lot of us have realistic expectations, but outrageous hopes. There probably isn't anyone here that thinks they are going to get 30 year old molds. But none of us would complain (except for a few, apparently) if those older models did end up coming out.
At them moment it's all speculation other than that they going to rerelease some of their older OOP stuff
but we know they won't be able to release everything back to the beginning of the company as
they'll have lost some of the original masters/moulds
they'll have destroyed some of the original masters/moulds
some of the stuff they released was licenced (eg AD&D, Paranoia, 2000AD, Dr Who etc) and they no longer have the licence
some of the stuff was sold/given away to sculptors who have left (eg a lot of the original empire range)
some of the stuff sculpted by free-lancers was probably not bought in such a way that they could be re-used (see the issues with some of the early art/ip in the chaperhouse case)
and some of it is probably offensive enough it todays terms that they would risk bringing it back (eg the pygmies)
so we might as well wait and see (and hope) until we get the full official announcement
RazorEdge wrote: Wargames Foundry still have the old citadel "NIppon" range.
Yeah and Norse, and Dragons and Brettonians Normans too.
They also have the full range of Citadel cannons (used to be sold as Bretton and Dwarf bombards) in metal. I do laugh when these appear as "long OOP citadel Cannons" on ebay!
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
RazorEdge wrote: I guess we could possible see this "made to order" stuff as a "classic" range. Some older models from pre 2008 as a "high quality metal" cast.
MaxT wrote: Honestly, this is why i feel sorry for GW sometimes. The expectations of some of you lot are fething ridiculous.
Do you really think it's ridiculous that people want to buy things? 90% of the requests here involve, at most, taking an old master out of the vault, making a mold, and spin casting some pewter. There are companies literally in garages and basements that are doing that right now. I get all the stuff about inventories and what not, but people are willing to pay a good price per model for what they want.
It's neither ridiculous of us to ask, or GW to refuse.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
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5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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