More Angel's Blade Discussion

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Bartali**

Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Hey guys, I love this thread. I really enjoy reading up on what all everyone else is doing with Angel's Blade. I had a couple questions and musings and thought I'd ask about it with you guys.

Basically I keep staring at the 10th company ambush force and trying to figure a use for a scout bike squad. Under normal circumstances I'd almost never use the scout bikes for anything, but this concealed positions bonus keeps dragging me back. I'm not sure if this is really viable, but assuming since I would be forced to take cluster mines and I wouldn't wanna move the scouts anyways so they could keep their stealth bonus, would it be possible to set them up in a piece of 3+ or 4+ cover terrain then choose that very same terrain as the location for my cluster mines?

If I could, I sorta like the idea that a toughness 5 group of grenade launchers could just sit in dangerous terrain with a 2+ or 3+ cover save on top of it. I don't actually know that it would be very useful....buuuuuut kinda cool anyways. If you can.

Also, another thing I had been thinking about was the demi company vs the archangels demi company in regards to the Angels blade strike force. I know some of you had said earlier that you felt like zealot was pretty dope, but I wondered about critical mass. With regards to the demi company, the tac squads are just 1 wound 1 attack space bros, so doesn't it make more sense that the archangels demi company, all members of whom have 2 attacks, would benefit from the zealot bonus better? Does the normal battle demi company have any significant benefit then vs the archangels? I mean dreadnoughts and grav devs, but thats all I could think of really.

Anyways, just some stuff I'd been thinking about. I'm trying to come up with a new list and I've been considering all sorts of things like bolter DC vs CC DC and even whether I could get away with bolstering CC scouts with sanguinary priests with a CAD just to have some obsec or even if that would be worthwhile. Anyways, any insight is appreciated. Thanks guys

I don't think Zealot is that good to be honest, and certainly not worth taking all the chaff units for a full Angels Blade to get it. It doesn't boost shooting units, and doesn't do anything for units that have lost half their numbers and are locked in combat.
If you want Red Thirst, there's better ways of getting it eg Lost Brotherhood Strike Force and Baal Strike Force, Mainly, just forget the Angels Blade Strike Force exists exists.

Edit - I keep swinging between being up and down about the Angels Blade book. Now down again after listening to the guy who won Battle for Salvation explain his Ravenguard list. Vanguard Veterans that can choose to auto deep strike turn 1 and then assault (with a normal charge too, thanks GW) sound an awful lot better than the BA assault from deep strike formations.

**Martel732**

Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Hey guys, I love this thread. I really enjoy reading up on what all everyone else is doing with Angel's Blade. I had a couple questions and musings and thought I'd ask about it with you guys.

Basically I keep staring at the 10th company ambush force and trying to figure a use for a scout bike squad. Under normal circumstances I'd almost never use the scout bikes for anything, but this concealed positions bonus keeps dragging me back. I'm not sure if this is really viable, but assuming since I would be forced to take cluster mines and I wouldn't wanna move the scouts anyways so they could keep their stealth bonus, would it be possible to set them up in a piece of 3+ or 4+ cover terrain then choose that very same terrain as the location for my cluster mines?

If I could, I sorta like the idea that a toughness 5 group of grenade launchers could just sit in dangerous terrain with a 2+ or 3+ cover save on top of it. I don't actually know that it would be very useful....buuuuuut kinda cool anyways. If you can.

Also, another thing I had been thinking about was the demi company vs the archangels demi company in regards to the Angels blade strike force. I know some of you had said earlier that you felt like zealot was pretty dope, but I wondered about critical mass. With regards to the demi company, the tac squads are just 1 wound 1 attack space bros, so doesn't it make more sense that the archangels demi company, all members of whom have 2 attacks, would benefit from the zealot bonus better? Does the normal battle demi company have any significant benefit then vs the archangels? I mean dreadnoughts and grav devs, but thats all I could think of really.

Anyways, just some stuff I'd been thinking about. I'm trying to come up with a new list and I've been considering all sorts of things like bolter DC vs CC DC and even whether I could get away with bolstering CC scouts with sanguinary priests with a CAD just to have some obsec or even if that would be worthwhile. Anyways, any insight is appreciated. Thanks guys

I don't really care about the individual marines getting zealot, I'm using the marines' deaths as triggers for libbies, captains, veteran sergeants and mephiston. The Demi-company in theory loses fewer points to trigger zealot as well. Zealot works pretty well with furious charge, and that's how GW has decided the BA are supposed to work.

**Bartali**

Might enter a tournament for the first time in a long while next year, and will be the first time playing 1850.

Thoughts on the below. Reasonably happy with the Archangels Demi composition, but unsure about the Rapid Assault Force composition. Would love to break out my ASM again.

Angels Blade Strike Force - 1850

Archangels Demi Company
Terminator Captain
Furioso Dread w/ Frag, Melta, Pod
Furioso Dread w/ Frag, Melta, Pod
Sternguard w/ 2x Combi-Melta, Pod
Sternguard w/ 2x Combi-Melta, Pod
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC

Rapid Assault Force
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta
5x Assault Marines w/ 1x Melta

**Martel732**

Well, iks are hosed.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'd have gone minimum sized and two Melta and a Combi-Melta (I think your sergeants are allowed that).

**winterman**

Bartali wrote:
Good Luck, let us know how you get on.

Re Rapid Assault Force. I just assumed it couldn't be taken as a formation outside of Angels Blade 'cos the initial rules leak said so. I can't however find anything that stops me taking it as a separate formation ? It's just a formation without any command benefits ?

Common mistake. Not every option in a decurion style detachment is a formation. Some are just one or more units with a fancy name so you can track what auxillaries and such you have taken. The text above every decurion spells this out in a rough but not super clear way.

**th3maninblak**

Interesting list. I kinda like it.

I'm toying with the idea of the stormraven squadron with the Archangels. +1 reserves if your opponent doesn't have a flyer, and you get them on turn 1.

**Martel732**

th3maninblak wrote:
Interesting list. I kinda like it.

I'm toying with the idea of the stormraven squadron with the Archangels. +1 reserves if your opponent doesn't have a flyer, and you get them on turn 1.

That sounds like DFTS heresy to me.

**th3maninblak**

Martel732 wrote:
th3maninblak wrote:
Interesting list. I kinda like it.

I'm toying with the idea of the stormraven squadron with the Archangels. +1 reserves if your opponent doesn't have a flyer, and you get them on turn 1.

That sounds like DFTS heresy to me.

It definitely is. I kinda dig DFTS. But being able to bring 3 pods, 2 assault terminator squads, 2 units of melta vanguard vets and 2 stormravens onto the table turn 1 seems pretty nasty.

**Martel732**

It opens the door for interceptors to wreck you though. And the Stormhawk is super nasty.

**Bartali**

Re Stormravens. Something else I was considering for 1850 is the long forgotten "Angel's Fury Spearhead Strike Force" which in combo with some of the Angels Blade formations may work. Turn 1 assaults in combo with obsec marines is quite nice.

Still suffers from the problem of failing that re-rollable 3+ reserves roll on turn 1 though

1850 (ish)
Angel's Fury
3x Stormravens w/ Las, Melta
3x 10 Tacticals

Chapter Ancients
3x Furioso w/ Frag, Melta; Drop Pod
2x Dreads w/ Asscan; Drop Pod

At 2k+ points you could combo Angel's Fury with Archangels Demi to get everything dropping also assaulting on turn 1.

**whitedragon**

Bartali wrote:
Might enter a tournament for the first time in a long while next year, and will be the first time playing 1850.

Thoughts on the below. Reasonably happy with the Archangels Demi composition, but unsure about the Rapid Assault Force composition. Would love to break out my ASM again.

Angels Blade Strike Force - 1850

Archangels Demi Company
Terminator Captain
Furioso Dread w/ Frag, Melta, Pod
Furioso Dread w/ Frag, Melta, Pod
Sternguard w/ 2x Combi-Melta, Pod
Sternguard w/ 2x Combi-Melta, Pod
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC
5x Terminators w/ 3X TH/SS, 2xTLC

Rapid Assault Force
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta
5x Assault Marines w/ 1x Melta

I was thinking similar things, I really want TH/SS terminators and 3x Furioso's in Pods in my army all deepstriking. I was trying to fit it into an Angels Blade Force, but I really like the bonuses from the Orbital Intervention Force (Termies assaulting from Deepstrike) and the Chapter Ancients (Moving/Assaulting twice) formations by themselves. Taking them instead in the Archangel Demi-Company isn't quite as lucrative I don't think.

As a result, I was thinking of just running those two formations + a CAD anyway.

1850 BA List

Chapter Ancients
- Furioso with Frag Cannon in Drop Pod
- Furioso with Frag Cannon in Drop Pod
- Furioso with Frag Cannon in Drop Pod

Orbital Intervention Force
- 5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS
- 5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS
- 5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS

Combined Arms Detachment (About 400 to 600ish points leftover)
- Blood Angel Captain
- Tac Squad in Drop Pod
- Tac Squad in Drop Pop
- Some other stuff

**Bartali**

The difference with the Archangels Demi and something like Chapter Ancients/Orbital Intervention is threat dispersal.

On turn 1, the majority of your Archangels Demi is going to land. With the list you've posted, you're just going to have the three dreads drop on turn 1 and your opponent can deal with your list piecemeal. I think you can get away with it at 1500, but will struggle at 1850.

In your list you'll want to factor in beacons and have either Karleen or Corbulo for your HQ for a reserves re-roll for the OIF.

**th3maninblak**

How about something like this?

1850
BA CAD

HQ
-Corbulo

Troops
-3x5 Tac Marines
Melta gun
Combi melta
Drop pod with locator beacon

-5x Tac Marines
Heavy Flamer
Drop pod with locator beacon

Chapter Ancients
-3x Furioso Dreadnoughts
Frag cannon
Heavy Flamer
Drop pod with locator beacon

Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
-3x5 Assault Teeminators
TH/SS

Gives you 4 pods on turn 1 followed by 15 terminators and maybe 1 more pod turn 2.

**Martel732**

Any way to get Karlaen instead? He can ride a pod with tac marines or whatever.

**th3maninblak**

Martel732 wrote:
Any way to get Karlaen instead? He can ride a pod with tac marines or whatever.

If you cut 4 locator beacons. Which I'm not a fan of.

**Martel732**

One things for sure; you can drop in vs Riptides with this list.

**th3maninblak**

Martel732 wrote:
One things for sure; you can drop in vs Riptides with this list.

How so?

**Martel732**

Because you can drop triple furioso turn 1. Most interceptor fire is inefficient vs av 13.

**th3maninblak**

Alternatively you could swap out 2 tac pods for some scouts with beacons and melta bombs. Either in a CAD for OBSEC or in the 10th company ambush force for its special rules.

**Bartali**

^^ I think I'd get twitchy playing a full drop pod list with no manoeuvrability after the drop. But then I play Maelstrom missions, your meta/mission type may very.

Not Angels Blade related, but I'm not sure there's been much discussion about the jump pack re-roll charge distance post draft FAQ ? Sticking a jump pack equipped model in with a bunch of otherwise footslogging models allows you to re-roll the units charge distance (as long as you didn't use the jump pack in the movement phase). Jump Sang Priests are such a huge buffer for Terminators now - +1WS, FNP and re-roll charge distances. Bonus for an Angel Wing Sang Priest on 1d6 scatter on deep strike.
Putting together a 1K list for a game vs a friend, and may give a block of foot slogging assault terminators a try.

**th3maninblak**

Bartali wrote:
^^ I think I'd get twitchy playing a full drop pod list with no manoeuvrability after the drop. But then I play Maelstrom missions, your meta/mission type may very.

Not Angels Blade related, but I'm not sure there's been much discussion about the jump pack re-roll charge distance post draft FAQ ? Sticking a jump pack equipped model in with a bunch of otherwise footslogging models allows you to re-roll the units charge distance (as long as you didn't use the jump pack in the movement phase). Jump Sang Priests are such a huge buffer for Terminators now - +1WS, FNP and re-roll charge distances. Bonus for an Angel Wing Sang Priest on 1d6 scatter on deep strike.
Putting together a 1K list for a game vs a friend, and may give a block of foot slogging assault terminators a try.

Also means not using the jump pack on one guy in a unit if death co gives them the reroll, since movement is model by model and no where does it say the whole unit must choose the same movement mode.

**Martel732**

th3maninblak wrote:
Bartali wrote:
^^ I think I'd get twitchy playing a full drop pod list with no manoeuvrability after the drop. But then I play Maelstrom missions, your meta/mission type may very.

Not Angels Blade related, but I'm not sure there's been much discussion about the jump pack re-roll charge distance post draft FAQ ? Sticking a jump pack equipped model in with a bunch of otherwise footslogging models allows you to re-roll the units charge distance (as long as you didn't use the jump pack in the movement phase). Jump Sang Priests are such a huge buffer for Terminators now - +1WS, FNP and re-roll charge distances. Bonus for an Angel Wing Sang Priest on 1d6 scatter on deep strike.
Putting together a 1K list for a game vs a friend, and may give a block of foot slogging assault terminators a try.

Also means not using the jump pack on one guy in a unit if death co gives them the reroll, since movement is model by model and no where does it say the whole unit must choose the same movement mode.

I never thought of that. Nice!

**th3maninblak**

Right!? I've been using that a lot recently. Just make sure you stay in unit coherency and you're good!

Doing that let me make two 9+in charges first turn against minotaurs space marines last week. He deployed like 3in back from his deployment line because I had first turn, to avoid being charged. Yeah, about that.

**whitedragon**

Bartali wrote:
The difference with the Archangels Demi and something like Chapter Ancients/Orbital Intervention is threat dispersal.

On turn 1, the majority of your Archangels Demi is going to land. With the list you've posted, you're just going to have the three dreads drop on turn 1 and your opponent can deal with your list piecemeal. I think you can get away with it at 1500, but will struggle at 1850.

In your list you'll want to factor in beacons and have either Karleen or Corbulo for your HQ for a reserves re-roll for the OIF.

The Archangels Demi Company, the Chapter Ancients and the Orbital Intervention Force have essentially the same units, just different combos with rules. I really like the "Assault out of Deepstrike" and the "Doube Move/Attack" of the latter two formations, but I guess the question I've been wondering about, is it really worth it? Is Assaulting out of deepstrike worth giving up deepstriking on Turn 1 and scattering D6" less?

Also, I'd have to take a CAD to get Captain Karlaen either way I play and the Archangels Demi Company includes a Terminator Captain, so I'm spending about 300 points on HQ's that aren't really pulling any weight if I go that direction.

Should I instead look for another force to ally the Chapter Ancients or Orbital Intervention Force with?

**th3maninblak**

Ok, so I'm just waiting on my ForgeWorld techmarine and then this list is finished. I'll be trying it out for the first time this upcoming Wednesday, so it won't be until then that we see if this really works.

1850 LBSF

Command
-Death Company Chaplain

Death Company Strike Force
-Death Company Chaplain
Gilded Crozius
Warlord

-Death Company Dreadnought
Blood Talons
Drop Pod

-10x Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist
Power Sword

-5x Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist

-5x Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist

10th Company Ambush Force
-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Combat Blades

Lucifer Armored Task Force
-Techmarine
Bolt Pistol
Power Axe

-Land Raider Redeemer

-Baal Predator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

-Baal Predator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

-Predator
Lascannon Sponsons

So the combat scouts and techmarine go in the raider. Everything surges forward or redeploys on flanks. Then we hope that starting the game in the enemy deployment zone is a valid strategy!

**Phyrekzhogos**

I kinda like that idea of using the shotguns on the scout squads. Offhand, if a sanguinary priest joined one of the 10th company squads, you don't get the formation bonus then right? Or can you even do that?

Anybody think it would be reasonable to just put like 4 powerfists in one of your larger DC squads and simply use that for the same purposes you would normally build a TH/SS termy unit for? I was thinking I really like the OIF, but I'm not actually sure if I want three whole squads of TH/SS dudes if I could literally just take more and more DC instead. The termies can certainly wreck alot, but so do the DC and with better movement. Is that a bad idea??

**Bartali**

The problem with unwieldy weapons is getting to swing before you get punched out yourself. The things that you're going to want Powerfists for are sometimes going to be swinging before you, and with AP2 and possibly ignoring FNP.

You can get away with one fist in a DC squad, but more that that isn't going to work. You're better placed to push through numbers of wounds with volume of attacks and re-rolls going at I4/5

You could gear out Vanguard Vets with Fists/Hammers and Shields with a Priest, but it ends up being stupidly expensive sadly.

**Slayer-Fan123**

You always go 1 Fist per five Death Company.

Otherwise, the Axe or Maul or Lance provide interesting opportunities. Regular sword is garbage on them.

**th3maninblak**

I only ever run the sword if I need to cut points in a 10 man squad. Otherwise its 1 fist per 5. To provide a counter point, I like the sword because it usually ends up netting you assured kills vs 3+ armor save or worse targets. Too many times have I swung in with a bajillion str5 init5 ap- attacks only to have the defending player roll his dice and go "OOPS, looks like I only failed 2 out of 17!!"