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Hi All,

In this episode we put everything together from the other videos in the series and I put forward a general TAC list for Competitive Pure Infantry Guard.

Normally I would have doubled this up with part 4 but I felt it was better as a stand alone video.




Warhammer 40k Tactics: Emperors Shield Infantry Company Explained.

This is a long video with 2 parts. Part 1 is the explanation of the ESIC, what you need and what buffs it gives. Part 2 is my tournament list using this formation.





For Part 1 in the series please follow the link below:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/706440.page

For Part 2 in the series please follow the link below:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/706667.page

For Part 3 in the series please follow the link below:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707107.page#8994318

For Part 4 in the series please follow the link below:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707313.page#8998884

Great video, it gave me some interesting things to think about for my own lists.

Here are my thoughts on your list construction:

Special weapons for platoon command squads? I've always been a fan of either throwing 4 flamers or 4 sniper rifles into my PCS. The flamers make a gross counter attack unit (dats a lot of template) and the sniper rifles cost only 8 points (for all 4!) and give a squad that wasn't going to do much shooting a chance to do so.

I love the doubt effect. I bring a 300+ guard list to 2500 point games as its fun to watch your opponent begin to question how he's going to kill all of it as you fill the table.

Have you considered priests for your conscripts. Given that they're most likely going into combat a priest on a successful war hymms roll will increase their damage output by up to 35% which, after some napkin math hammer, is cost effective for a long time (as the blob deminishes in size)

What took my army to the next level was the addition of forge world gun carriages. If they're allowed in your tournament format they are super worth it. MEQ will cry before the roar of your guns.

May want to keep the series consolidated to a thread? I dunno, sometimes the mods care, sometimes they don't. Regardless, I like your videos to paint to so that's about as good a compliment I can give as any.

I used to play infantry guard a lot (I mean a lot) back in 5th/early 6th, but have been out of the game for a long time. It's interesting to hear how a player tackles the new challenges an edition brings, and how much of it honestly hasn't changed much (standards are still good, commissars are still mandatory, guardsmen still outnumber everyone) mixed in with a couple new changes, like conscripts being awesome now. It's also good in the "see, I'm not crazy!" aspect when you mentioned that Masters of Ordnance are great for 20pts if you can fit them in, and also pointing out just how good the new version of Al'Rahems "like the wind" is (aka the shoot then move one).

Foot Guard was lucky in that while we didn't get a bunch of huge shake ups like some armies got, we got a ton of minor tweaks that an experienced player can pick up on. The orders system in particular got way better, especially because it used to be where platoon squads only had like 3 orders, and we had to do our orders in a certain way due to chain of command. I probably won't get back into full scale 40k unless a new edition pops up, but given that I'm one of the only people around crazy enough to be able to run an army mirroring yours in size, it's cool to hear your advice to keep in mind for a rainy day. Plus it's good to know that the "fluffiest" version of the guard is still useable to a degree if you don't mind painting 200 infantry models

I would love to see a batrep sometime. Obviously there's no way a sane foot guard player can do one for a tournament, but if you've ever got time one day to do one in a casual game I'd definitely read it, and I feel that's the best way to show people your ideas in practice.

 Typhon wrote:
Great video, it gave me some interesting things to think about for my own lists.

Here are my thoughts on your list construction:

Special weapons for platoon command squads? I've always been a fan of either throwing 4 flamers or 4 sniper rifles into my PCS. The flamers make a gross counter attack unit (dats a lot of template) and the sniper rifles cost only 8 points (for all 4!) and give a squad that wasn't going to do much shooting a chance to do so.

I love the doubt effect. I bring a 300+ guard list to 2500 point games as its fun to watch your opponent begin to question how he's going to kill all of it as you fill the table.

Have you considered priests for your conscripts. Given that they're most likely going into combat a priest on a successful war hymms roll will increase their damage output by up to 35% which, after some napkin math hammer, is cost effective for a long time (as the blob deminishes in size)

What took my army to the next level was the addition of forge world gun carriages. If they're allowed in your tournament format they are super worth it. MEQ will cry before the roar of your guns.

Thanks for watching!

I dont like snipers on bs3 models, also I like my PCS running around issuing orders and leading from (near) the front and snipers are Heavy 1. Flamers are good, but you really need to put the PCS in a chimera to get the most out of that loadout. That means you are spending 115pts on a 5man squad. I would rather take a 30 man conscript blob with a commissar.

The doubt effect is great, I love seeing the face of opponent change as more and more men get deployed!

Priests in conscripts are good and are a viable alternative to Commissars, But I prefer being able to reliable put down FRFSRF then maybe get off a close combat buff.

Sadly, foregeworld is generally not allowed in the tournements I go to. Also over here Invis still means snapshots so blasts cant target the invis death star lists that I often end up facing.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
May want to keep the series consolidated to a thread? I dunno, sometimes the mods care, sometimes they don't. Regardless, I like your videos to paint to so that's about as good a compliment I can give as any.

I used to play infantry guard a lot (I mean a lot) back in 5th/early 6th, but have been out of the game for a long time. It's interesting to hear how a player tackles the new challenges an edition brings, and how much of it honestly hasn't changed much (standards are still good, commissars are still mandatory, guardsmen still outnumber everyone) mixed in with a couple new changes, like conscripts being awesome now. It's also good in the "see, I'm not crazy!" aspect when you mentioned that Masters of Ordnance are great for 20pts if you can fit them in, and also pointing out just how good the new version of Al'Rahems "like the wind" is (aka the shoot then move one).

Foot Guard was lucky in that while we didn't get a bunch of huge shake ups like some armies got, we got a ton of minor tweaks that an experienced player can pick up on. The orders system in particular got way better, especially because it used to be where platoon squads only had like 3 orders, and we had to do our orders in a certain way due to chain of command. I probably won't get back into full scale 40k unless a new edition pops up, but given that I'm one of the only people around crazy enough to be able to run an army mirroring yours in size, it's cool to hear your advice to keep in mind for a rainy day. Plus it's good to know that the "fluffiest" version of the guard is still useable to a degree if you don't mind painting 200 infantry models

I would love to see a batrep sometime. Obviously there's no way a sane foot guard player can do one for a tournament, but if you've ever got time one day to do one in a casual game I'd definitely read it, and I feel that's the best way to show people your ideas in practice.

Yeah I am keeping an eye on posting too much and I have been doubling up the videos. I generally only try and post every 2-3 days and so far I havent had any issues with mods (finger crossed).

Using these as painting videos is the best compliment!

Yeah I remember reading several of your posts a while back, yours and Ailerios posts were always great. Honestly foot guard has not changed all that much, its still all about blobs with orders and leaders and like you said, all those things have only seen minor tweaks in generally the right direction.

I am planning on putting a few newer batreps together but in the mean time I got you covered...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702835.page

Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Captain Brown wrote:
Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Thanks for watching

Yes it is a challenge collecting and painting so many models, I have been collecting IG for the last 13 years and I still find myself needing more and more models! I have started making a few videos on other units in the guard codex because i appreciate not everyone wants a pure infantry army.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Captain Brown wrote:
Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Thanks for watching

Yes it is a challenge collecting and painting so many models, I have been collecting IG for the last 13 years and I still find myself needing more and more models! I have started making a few videos on other units in the guard codex because i appreciate not everyone wants a pure infantry army.

Love the videos! You are helping me gel in my mind the idea of drowning my opponents in the bodies of guardsman.

How do you feel about MSU guard and melta bombs on regular Sgts? I've had the habit of taking my infantry squads with Melta bombs on the Sgt, Grenade Launchers, and Autocannons and not running them as a blob (with the exception of lascannons which are usually wrapped around my CCS). My thought is that each squad is going to cause them to split their fire and it will really slow down enemy shooting. Additionally the melta bombs mean that the squad can pretty much have a chance at killing anything on the table. I used to do krak grenades until they nerfed them in the FAQ

If I run blobs I like to have melta bombs on the sergeants just because a few times now I've run into armies that drop pod 3+ dreadnaughts inmy face turn 1. Last thing I want to happen is have a blob tied up from a walker. That and gargantuan creatures as well.

It's inevitable as guard that your opponent is going to close the distance with you. And now if you're moving up as well they also will close the distance even faster with more assault units up closer.

Also I watched your article about your list and about the psyker and I don't remember you mentioning it but do you run him as lvl 2 psyker?

generalchaos34 wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Captain Brown wrote:
Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Thanks for watching

Yes it is a challenge collecting and painting so many models, I have been collecting IG for the last 13 years and I still find myself needing more and more models! I have started making a few videos on other units in the guard codex because i appreciate not everyone wants a pure infantry army.

Love the videos! You are helping me gel in my mind the idea of drowning my opponents in the bodies of guardsman.

How do you feel about MSU guard and melta bombs on regular Sgts? I've had the habit of taking my infantry squads with Melta bombs on the Sgt, Grenade Launchers, and Autocannons and not running them as a blob (with the exception of lascannons which are usually wrapped around my CCS). My thought is that each squad is going to cause them to split their fire and it will really slow down enemy shooting. Additionally the melta bombs mean that the squad can pretty much have a chance at killing anything on the table. I used to do krak grenades until they nerfed them in the FAQ

Thank you for watching

In terms of MSU Guard I tend to like to run a mix of MSU and blob. So I will run the basic Infantry Squads with heavy and special weapons in separate units and have my conscripts in big blobs.This way My opponent is forced to choose between my blobs of conscripts which are moving on to objectives and providing cover to everyone behind or shoot my Infantry squads which are damaging him with long range firepower.
I don’t really like melta bombs on my squads, the points add up quickly on most battles they won’t even get to use them. But it is not a terrible idea, I would say it depends on your meta/regular opponents.

tankboy145 wrote:If I run blobs I like to have melta bombs on the sergeants just because a few times now I've run into armies that drop pod 3+ dreadnaughts inmy face turn 1. Last thing I want to happen is have a blob tied up from a walker. That and gargantuan creatures as well.

It's inevitable as guard that your opponent is going to close the distance with you. And now if you're moving up as well they also will close the distance even faster with more assault units up closer.

Also I watched your article about your list and about the psyker and I don't remember you mentioning it but do you run him as lvl 2 psyker?

Yes Level 2. I have tried running them as Level 1 but you just do not have enough power dice to get off Prescience reliably

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

generalchaos34 wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Captain Brown wrote:
Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Thanks for watching

Yes it is a challenge collecting and painting so many models, I have been collecting IG for the last 13 years and I still find myself needing more and more models! I have started making a few videos on other units in the guard codex because i appreciate not everyone wants a pure infantry army.

Love the videos! You are helping me gel in my mind the idea of drowning my opponents in the bodies of guardsman.

How do you feel about MSU guard and melta bombs on regular Sgts? I've had the habit of taking my infantry squads with Melta bombs on the Sgt, Grenade Launchers, and Autocannons and not running them as a blob (with the exception of lascannons which are usually wrapped around my CCS). My thought is that each squad is going to cause them to split their fire and it will really slow down enemy shooting. Additionally the melta bombs mean that the squad can pretty much have a chance at killing anything on the table. I used to do krak grenades until they nerfed them in the FAQ

Thank you for watching

In terms of MSU Guard I tend to like to run a mix of MSU and blob. So I will run the basic Infantry Squads with heavy and special weapons in separate units and have my conscripts in big blobs.This way My opponent is forced to choose between my blobs of conscripts which are moving on to objectives and providing cover to everyone behind or shoot my Infantry squads which are damaging him with long range firepower.
I don’t really like melta bombs on my squads, the points add up quickly on most battles they won’t even get to use them. But it is not a terrible idea, I would say it depends on your meta/regular opponents.

Good to know im thinking the way you are! My opponents like silliness like Tetrads so I find the melta bombs can occasionally do some work, esp when I line up a few 10 man squads to keep the Princes locked in CC.

Im still greatly saddened by the fact that vehicles cannot really be viable in guard this edition, since its certainly a staple and mech guard was always something fun to play (but 5e style, just getting your men moving to take objectives with their metal bawkses providing cover fire). When you take Emperors shield do you bother upgrading to armored sentinels or upgrade their weapons or just run scouts with Multilasers?

Also do you typically run bolters on your sergeants if you have points? I completely agree with keeping the Platoon and Company commanders relatively naked this edition since they are too vulnerable to pile on points that will die.

And do you have any brain storming to help make Heavy Weapon squads not be terrible? Im fairly partial to making them T 4/5 with 4+ armor to represent the gun itself, much like the eldar gun platforms are a halfway point from troop to artillery.

The most competitive way to run infantry blobs right now are Renegades. Lots of artillery and zombies haha

generalchaos34 wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

generalchaos34 wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Captain Brown wrote:
Good talk on the all infantry guard army. Similar to the army I use, except one less conscript platoon (and the Lascanons in the Command Squads) I use those points towards Veterans in a Chimera.

One challenge you did not mention was the time it takes to paint an army that large. My Necromundian Guard army is one of the few I have seen with enough painted figures for the build.

Thanks for making the presentation and keeping it interesting.

Cheers,

CB

Thanks for watching

Yes it is a challenge collecting and painting so many models, I have been collecting IG for the last 13 years and I still find myself needing more and more models! I have started making a few videos on other units in the guard codex because i appreciate not everyone wants a pure infantry army.

Love the videos! You are helping me gel in my mind the idea of drowning my opponents in the bodies of guardsman.

How do you feel about MSU guard and melta bombs on regular Sgts? I've had the habit of taking my infantry squads with Melta bombs on the Sgt, Grenade Launchers, and Autocannons and not running them as a blob (with the exception of lascannons which are usually wrapped around my CCS). My thought is that each squad is going to cause them to split their fire and it will really slow down enemy shooting. Additionally the melta bombs mean that the squad can pretty much have a chance at killing anything on the table. I used to do krak grenades until they nerfed them in the FAQ

Thank you for watching

In terms of MSU Guard I tend to like to run a mix of MSU and blob. So I will run the basic Infantry Squads with heavy and special weapons in separate units and have my conscripts in big blobs.This way My opponent is forced to choose between my blobs of conscripts which are moving on to objectives and providing cover to everyone behind or shoot my Infantry squads which are damaging him with long range firepower.
I don’t really like melta bombs on my squads, the points add up quickly on most battles they won’t even get to use them. But it is not a terrible idea, I would say it depends on your meta/regular opponents.

Good to know im thinking the way you are! My opponents like silliness like Tetrads so I find the melta bombs can occasionally do some work, esp when I line up a few 10 man squads to keep the Princes locked in CC.

Im still greatly saddened by the fact that vehicles cannot really be viable in guard this edition, since its certainly a staple and mech guard was always something fun to play (but 5e style, just getting your men moving to take objectives with their metal bawkses providing cover fire). When you take Emperors shield do you bother upgrading to armored sentinels or upgrade their weapons or just run scouts with Multilasers?

Also do you typically run bolters on your sergeants if you have points? I completely agree with keeping the Platoon and Company commanders relatively naked this edition since they are too vulnerable to pile on points that will die.

And do you have any brain storming to help make Heavy Weapon squads not be terrible? Im fairly partial to making them T 4/5 with 4+ armor to represent the gun itself, much like the eldar gun platforms are a halfway point from troop to artillery.

I prefer to keep them scout sentinels so I have the option to outflank them and get line breaker which has helped me win a few tournament games. I use multilasers as it basically makes the Sent a mobile Weapons team and it wounds most targets on 2s or if outflanked has a good chance of knocking a hull point of a vehicle by shooting it in the side or rear armour Cheap and cheerful for sents.

I don't bother running bolters on the Sgts but only because I don't have the models. If I did I probably would because 15 bolters will probably do more than 5 conscritps. Overall though I think it is a good idea to put bolters on officers as they have BS4 so are more likely to hit then Sgts.

Heavy Weapon Platforms need a few things to make them work. First off they need protection from instant death. Either make them 2 separate models or just say they have immunity to ID. Secondly they need they need to be much cheaper, I mean why the hell are we paying 45pts for 6 Guardsmen!!? Make them 30 points. Thirdly they need access to Camo Cloaks and a Gun Shield as a 5pts upgrade to each. Camo Cloaks to represent hidden gun emplacements (think WW2 Japanese) and the Gun shield should give +1 Armour save. I am reluctant to make them like Eldar weapons platforms because those things are much bigger and bulkier then our HWS, which are essentially just 2 guys lugging around a machine gun!

SonsofVulkan wrote:The most competitive way to run infantry blobs right now are Renegades. Lots of artillery and zombies haha

Yes, or Genestealer cults. I am very tempted to make all my guard GSC Neophytes because then I can ambush people catachan style or "send in the next wave" via summoning!

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Heavy Weapon Platforms need a few things to make them work. First off they need protection from instant death. Either make them 2 separate models or just say they have immunity to ID. Secondly they need they need to be much cheaper, I mean why the hell are we paying 45pts for 6 Guardsmen!!? Make them 30 points. Thirdly they need access to Camo Cloaks and a Gun Shield as a 5pts upgrade to each. Camo Cloaks to represent hidden gun emplacements (think WW2 Japanese) and the Gun shield should give +1 Armour save. I am reluctant to make them like Eldar weapons platforms because those things are much bigger and bulkier then our HWS, which are essentially just 2 guys lugging around a machine gun!

SonsofVulkan wrote:The most competitive way to run infantry blobs right now are Renegades. Lots of artillery and zombies haha

Yes, or Genestealer cults. I am very tempted to make all my guard GSC Neophytes because then I can ambush people catachan style or "send in the next wave" via summoning!

I actually bought the GSC book for the same purpose! My thought was the neophyte calvacade with more neophytes, and sub in models like Catachan for the acolytes and/or genestealers and maybe use an inquisitor/pirmaris psyker for the Magus and a Commissar for the Primus (and make Marbo the Patriarch!) modelling it in the style of maybe the Tanith 1st and only supported by their Pardus tank friends. The idea of the men popping up and shooting and fading seems like a pretty fun idea all around and should be fairly fluffy, just need to make sure your opponent is well informed so theres no mistakes or hard feelings!

I like your ideas for the HWT, and I think a toughness bonus is still in order to some degree, esp in the day and age of scatter laser spam. If an artillery carriage grants its crew T7 then a heavy gun should give some sort of bonus.

Plus ive always been in favor of a guard wide rule wherein any non-vehicle guard unit that does not move in the movement phase gets to "dig in" and gets to have a +1 cover save until they move again. Would totally be fluffy and not entirely overpowered, and would be a major choice in whether or not you want to limit your movement further in an already movement challenged army.