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can anyone help e decide between the two?
since a new version of dust has released and K47 seems to be making the rounds i thought it would be a good time to ask.
miniatures are not a factor as i will be using dust minis regardless, i just need to decide on a system.
i'm looking for ease of play, ease of force creation and something not bogged down with special rules.

any thoughts?

Have you ever played Bolt Action?

47 is bolt action, First edition with some added special rules for the "weird war" units.

Dust has special rules for sure, but its printed on the star cards of the units.

If I had to pick, id pick Dust. Faster by a long shot, models are prebuilt and primed for you. The dice mechanic is super simple. Just I , like many others im sure have no clue whats going on with dust itself. Alive,dead, semi alive, semi dead, who knows. So if you got lots of models your set.

I'll play bolt action, but it feels far to slow and things just don't die in the game. Or if playing 47, everyone focus fires on your cool new models so they die before anything happens

If you're prepared to deal with the sketchiness/controversy of Dust their models are really good (if a little overpriced).

I play a lot of Dust Warfare, and the original Dust models are very cheap/easy to find. But the newer edition I believe is almost only available off their web page, and can be really expensive. If you're cool just using the older models, it's actually extremely cheap to play.

Konflict/Bolt Action you can find in stores, and will probably be able to find players for easier since Bolt action has a decent popularity.

As a side note, the status of Dust as far as I can tell is "semi alive". No store will touch it with a 10 foot pole after getting burned, but they are making new models. The online community is a little cult like imo but very active. You'll have to order everything online from their store, and compared to how much previous Dust models cost it's pretty shocking.

Bolt action / Konflict uses many base mechanics of 40k but without the armor saves.
It is made by the same guys who wrote 40k rules.
The balance is reasonable and the activation methods are fun and fair.
It certainly has me wondering if I can get a "Castle Wolfenstien" scenario going.

A standard American army versus German walkers, Zombies and Werewolves does sound like a fun scenario...

 Talizvar wrote:
Bolt action / Konflict uses many base mechanics of 40k but without the armor saves.
It is made by the same guys who wrote 40k rules.
The balance is reasonable and the activation methods are fun and fair.
It certainly has me wondering if I can get a "Castle Wolfenstien" scenario going.

That is brilliant!

Dust items are available from a few outlets. Currently Fantasy Flight has all their items that are still in stock on sale. Miniature Market has a decent selection of items at good prices from both Fantasy Flight and Battlefront. The newer stuff can be found at GameTime Miniatures in the U.S. at a slightly cheaper price than on the official Dust site. I hope this helps.

I really like the Dust models. I tried Bolt Action. I like the rules, but found the plastic minis a bit too fiddly to put together. I also am not a fan of metal miniatures so I didn't pursue the game any further. I did keep the rulebook though. I figured I might use it at some point with my Dust minis.

My problem with Bolt Action is that the vehicles are all out of scale with the infantry. I guess it shouldn't, but that is kind of a game breaker for me as even if I use a different brand for my armor, nobody else does.

 Chef_of_Cadia wrote:
My problem with Bolt Action is that the vehicles are all out of scale with the infantry. I guess it shouldn't, but that is kind of a game breaker for me as even if I use a different brand for my armor, nobody else does.

Yeah, I was not happy with the 1/56 scale when it really should be 1:48.

Just FYI, Dreamforge is selling WGF's discontinued WW2 plastics for 75% off. That's about 30 28mm troops for $7, and 80 15mm troops for $5.

Konflikt 47, by far. Dust is based off a pretty basic board game and its rules maintain a lot of that.

Konflikt is based off a dedicated miniature boardgame's rules, so there's a bit more tactical depth to start.

The only problem is that Konflikt is based on Bolt Action 1.0, instead of the newest 2.0 rules, and bolt action 1 had a number of issues that 2.0 clearly fixes.

 Chef_of_Cadia wrote:
My problem with Bolt Action is that the vehicles are all out of scale with the infantry. I guess it shouldn't, but that is kind of a game breaker for me as even if I use a different brand for my armor, nobody else does.

The issue with the Warlord, and about every other company's models, is that its not the tanks which are wrong, its the infantry. Whilst the infantry stand at the correct height, they are far, far too broad and have massively out of proportion extremities. Even the more realistically proportioned models still aren't accurate enough that you could stand them next to a vehicle and have them both at the same scale.

So, whilst the vehicles are appropriate size if you do a literal translation from the real world to 28mm, they appear titchy next to humans who are twice as broad as they should be.

Yes, using 1/48 vehicles may be the solution, but those are more difficult to find for that period than 1/56th. At least with infantry it takes less effort to mess about with their weapon loads.

I'd recommend using 1/56 vehicles with infantry from the Perry Miniatures or Wargames Factory. Not only are those cheaper than say Artizan or Warlord, they also don't walk about with hands bigger than their heads (all the better to cover those MP-40s with bores thicker than autocannon barrels).




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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Just FYI, Dreamforge is selling WGF's discontinued WW2 plastics for 75% off. That's about 30 28mm troops for $7, and 80 15mm troops for $5.

Wow. I may have to look into that myself. Those 3 kits (along with their modern stuff) are probably the best plastic kits I've seen on the market, not just because the amazing price.

Konflict 47 for sure. Dust studios was legit until they ripped off many of their fans and supporters with their kickstarter (not delivering the freebies, pledge extras, etc). They then used the cash to make the minis anyway and sell them to the public. Interest dropped as hard core dust fans dropped the game.

Now most hobby stores don't even carry the line as it's tainted in the gaming community.

Warlord on the other hand makes some awesome games that are great to play, financially affordable, and balanced. Konflict, bolt action, and terminator are all awesome and unique games that are growing... not dying.

The only way I'd ever get into dust is for the self contained board game version that you can play with the old starter sets. However, they are far outdated and hard to get ahold of now. Also know that dust makes a new edition every three years or so, invalidating the old rules.

Stay far far away from dust studios... evil greedy sob's

can anyone tell me if the unit cards for dust are available to download from anywhere?
im not asking for illegal... the rulebook was a free download so i am hoping for the unit cards.

Which unit cards are you looking for? I've got a ton of DUST cards that I use as bookmarks, and I can send you pictures of the ones that I have.

lol, thanks bob but that sounds like a lot of work for you.
i dont have any and as far as i can tell these cards are really the only way to even tell what units exist.
i couldnt really find an army book or anything like that if one is out there.

Miniature Market used to have the cards. Dust Studios is supposed to be making a new set of cards soon. Other than that, I think the old cards for version two of the game used to be on the downloads page of the Dust site.

thanks spect_spidey. i checked and unfortunately the download section was pretty bare.
i did find a cool website though with 2014 cards that someone made.
i wonder if there's any difference between those and new cards?
hell, i'm playing for fun only so it probably doesn't even matter right?

the new cards are due any time now (meant to have been last week I think)

http://store.dustusa.com/store/DUSTUSA/

Just got my DUST Kick starter stuff - lovely models and the prepaints look great.

Not played the game thought - likely end up having to play Konflict to get to use them.

I just received the Axis and SSU 2016 cards from Game Time miniatures. Just about every model is included. And the production value is high. So if I were you I would place an order with Game Time today.

Wyrmalla wrote:
The issue with the Warlord, and about every other company's models, is that its not the tanks which are wrong, its the infantry. Whilst the infantry stand at the correct height, they are far, far too broad and have massively out of proportion extremities. Even the more realistically proportioned models still aren't accurate enough that you could stand them next to a vehicle and have them both at the same scale.

So, whilst the vehicles are appropriate size if you do a literal translation from the real world to 28mm, they appear titchy next to humans who are twice as broad as they should be.

Yes, using 1/48 vehicles may be the solution, but those are more difficult to find for that period than 1/56th. At least with infantry it takes less effort to mess about with their weapon loads.

I'd recommend using 1/56 vehicles with infantry from the Perry Miniatures or Wargames Factory. Not only are those cheaper than say Artizan or Warlord, they also don't walk about with hands bigger than their heads (all the better to cover those MP-40s with bores thicker than autocannon barrels).

This is a problem as old as miniatures. If you look back to the days of 25mm WW2 stuff the metal figs were far chunkier because they had to be to not be to fragile. They looked huge next to the 25mm vehicles. Even as plastics make true-scale figures more doable, many figs have remained a bit chunky for reasons of style, paint-ability and durability. Since most folks use 28mm figs on 3mm bases, 1/48 is a fairly good solution if you take the overall height into account. There are a quite a number of 1/48 kits available.

usernamesareannoying wrote:can anyone help e decide between the two?
since a new version of dust has released and K47 seems to be making the rounds i thought it would be a good time to ask.
miniatures are not a factor as i will be using dust minis regardless, i just need to decide on a system.
i'm looking for ease of play, ease of force creation and something not bogged down with special rules.

any thoughts?

I really think you should do both.

First off i'd spend most of my effort on the one that is played most around you. There's no point in putting all your effort in a game with no opponents.

Overall however, you're going to have a difficult enough time finding opponents for either game, so you might as well keep your options open. I have alot of figs that get used in multiple rulesets depending on what kind of game I want to play. For example my Chaos army (mostly based on old GW and Battlemasters figs) minis see action in Song of Blades, Dragon Rampant, Kings of War and others.

I play and enjoy both systems, but if I was to pick one it would be Dust 1947 (with the newest rules and cards). It's really fast and fun.

I'm torn - I like the aesthetics of Dust, but I like the Bolt Action rules moreso than the Dust (boardgame) rules. I haven't had a chance to try the Dust Warfare rules to compare them to the boxed set rules - what are folks opinions on which is better?

The rules are the same. You simply convert the squares to inches. One square is converted to 4 inches.