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would you say Sigmar is a greater leader than the God Emperor?

Ehhh, tough to say. They both have done alot of great things for their people but they've both also proven to be very gullible.

The Emperor gets points for how triumphant his rule over mankind has been and how he's overcome so many threats and evils and brought about a golden age. It was the aftermath of his rule that really tarnished his name as his teachings were twisted.

Sigmar had far less adversity to deal with in the Old World, really it was his battles against chaos, orcs and Nagash. Though they were all grave threats regardless of comparison. Unlike the Emperor his teachings remained rather pure and brought about a unified empire that sought alliances rather than constant conflict and conquest.

The same happened in AoS as well, he wants unity and order rather than "kill the inhuman!". Though he did ruthlessly purge his realm of chaos and greenskin taint once the gates of Azyrheim closed. So he's not total benevolence.

I'd cautiously say Sigmar may be a better ruler as he has more stability in his rule than the Emperor.

Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

It would be tough to compare the two, given the incredibly vast differences between their respective domains: The Emperor was probably the worse ruler for any given area (except Terra itself, perhaps), but that's because his holdings were vast beyond imagining, while Sigmar has near-infinitely less area (and near-infinitely fewer subjects) to rule over, but for those he does, he seems a superficially better ruler.

LightKing wrote:
If this is what Sigmar looks like, then he doesn't really look "godly" to be honest

Well, that was his barbarian days where he gathered the tribes of the old world and united them to become the Empire.

Despite being somewhat mortal he did astonishing feats like single handedly take down a dragon ogre (ogre dragon?) and scaled the sheer cliff side of Middenheim to then battle the ruler on it's top. (Iirc)

His resurrection during the End Times and trials during his exploration of the mortal realms have definitely seen the godly side of him:


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BYZ6HiT8g-c/VtVD_I_zrVI/AAAAAAAAAQw/4hRf5kvJDpI/s1600/BRwQ7f8R_v0.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DyOk6THJGSY/VtVEJYX9cyI/AAAAAAAAAUE/j9nP1_qwN5U/s1600/lT_32akk06g.jpg


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7LhvvWHYgkM/VtVEBwWNHHI/AAAAAAAAARI/_Nm6xzAZwv0/s1600/IG97HGOOqZA.jpg

(EDIT: Haha, you can notice how he's been slowly growing that beard out as he went from frontline warrior to god-king.)

The God Emperor for sure, Sigmar was so lame that he was the least interesting or compelling character in his own trilogy.

Old World Sigmar was a decent enough leader; sort of a Conan type, not necessarily on a scale with, say, Aragorn, but a way better king than many of the alternatives.

Age of Sigmar Sigmar does things like throw a hissy fit when Nagash betrays him and bolts off to try and beat him up for a bit, letting Chaos slaughter all those people who depended on him. He also incinerated his own followers trying to defend against the cults assailing his city and is arrogant enough to remake every one of his chosen warriors in his own supposed image, no matter their original race or gender (as I've said before, if he takes greenskins he might as well let them look like greenskins when they come back; it might win him some allies...)

I'd put the Emperor a little bit between the two; he wasn't, you know, a great dad, but he did okay ruling an unimaginably vast empire.

Josh reynolds view on the subject I love his response. He is answering questions by the way on twitter using askfm.

What makes Sigmar different from the god emperor?(besides one being entombed on a Golden Throne and the other not being)

Sigmar wasn't dumb enough to create twenty superhuman toddlers and then annoy half of them so badly they tried to murder him. Then again, I doubt the Emperor would've palled around with Nagash, so maybe it evens out.
Or, y'know, one's an exceptional man elevated to godhood by his adoring people and the other is an actual god. I'll leave you to decide which is which.

 shinros wrote:
Josh reynolds view on the subject I love his response. He is answering questions by the way on twitter using askfm.

What makes Sigmar different from the god emperor?(besides one being entombed on a Golden Throne and the other not being)

Sigmar wasn't dumb enough to create twenty superhuman toddlers and then annoy half of them so badly they tried to murder him. Then again, I doubt the Emperor would've palled around with Nagash, so maybe it evens out.
Or, y'know, one's an exceptional man elevated to godhood by his adoring people and the other is an actual god. I'll leave you to decide which is which.

TBH the Nagash bit isn't that bad once you consider that Nagash was the last to abandon him while others went on to feth things up on their own way. It's just that the skellepope got tired of things going that way.

And honestly you'd go and make pay the guy who's betrayed you in the most painful and ruinous way (he attacked sigmar) so ehh... I'd not call it a hissy fit, not when the emperor did the same to magnus (well, he sent Leman Russ).

Honestly, Sigmar at least realizes that having some empathy with your people has some benefits, so he may not piss off half his stormcast as a result.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 shinros wrote:
Josh reynolds view on the subject I love his response. He is answering questions by the way on twitter using askfm.

What makes Sigmar different from the god emperor?(besides one being entombed on a Golden Throne and the other not being)

Sigmar wasn't dumb enough to create twenty superhuman toddlers and then annoy half of them so badly they tried to murder him. Then again, I doubt the Emperor would've palled around with Nagash, so maybe it evens out.
Or, y'know, one's an exceptional man elevated to godhood by his adoring people and the other is an actual god. I'll leave you to decide which is which.

TBH the Nagash bit isn't that bad once you consider that Nagash was the last to abandon him while others went on to feth things up on their own way. It's just that the skellepope got tired of things going that way.

And honestly you'd go and make pay the guy who's betrayed you in the most painful and ruinous way (he attacked sigmar) so ehh... I'd not call it a hissy fit, not when the emperor did the same to magnus (well, he sent Leman Russ).

What, that can't be a hissy fit too? The problem I have with that is that he redirected his efforts to killing Nagash and abandoned his people. That's when he became a bad ruler. Make Nagash pay? Sure, but let Chaos, the force you're supposed to be utterly against, wreak havoc on untold numbers of innocents in order to try and do it, and then realize you let everything go down the crapper, seal yourself in a bubble, and then kill everyone in the bubble trying to defend you without bothering to sort them out from the bad guys?

Not a whole lot of empathy there, just ego.

 Spinner wrote:


TBH the Nagash bit isn't that bad once you consider that Nagash was the last to abandon him while others went on to feth things up on their own way. It's just that the skellepope got tired of things going that way.

And honestly you'd go and make pay the guy who's betrayed you in the most painful and ruinous way (he attacked sigmar) so ehh... I'd not call it a hissy fit, not when the emperor did the same to magnus (well, he sent Leman Russ).

What, that can't be a hissy fit too? The problem I have with that is that he redirected his efforts to killing Nagash and abandoned his people. That's when he became a bad ruler. Make Nagash pay? Sure, but let Chaos, the force you're supposed to be utterly against, wreak havoc on untold numbers of innocents in order to try and do it, and then realize you let everything go down the crapper, seal yourself in a bubble, and then kill everyone in the bubble trying to defend you without bothering to sort them out from the bad guys?

Not a whole lot of empathy there, just ego.

IMO the whole event of shutting down is entirely reasonable: due to his feth-up (and let's be honest, no matter how angered he was at Nagash by the epic back-stab it was a feth up) He simply didn't have enough strength to face off the rape train of chaos. So he did something reasonable and holed up to build up the counter-attack. The fact that he's rebuilding everything as his troops recover ground show it a bit.

Lord Kragan wrote:
IMO the whole event of shutting down is entirely reasonable: due to his feth-up (and let's be honest, no matter how angered he was at Nagash by the epic back-stab it was a feth up) He simply didn't have enough strength to face off the rape train of chaos. So he did something reasonable and holed up to build up the counter-attack. The fact that he's rebuilding everything as his troops recover ground show it a bit.

While he cowers and hides while his troops do all the work.

Davor wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
IMO the whole event of shutting down is entirely reasonable: due to his feth-up (and let's be honest, no matter how angered he was at Nagash by the epic back-stab it was a feth up) He simply didn't have enough strength to face off the rape train of chaos. So he did something reasonable and holed up to build up the counter-attack. The fact that he's rebuilding everything as his troops recover ground show it a bit.

While he cowers and hides while his troops do all the work.

Rebuilding is fine. Isolating the one island of sanity you have left is fine (although not acknowledging that it was your own screw-up isn't exactly...heroic.).

Slaughtering your own troops because you couldn't take the time to distinguish them from the foaming-at-the-mouth cultists they're fighting is kind of a jerk move. To say the least. Doesn't he use the story of that particular massacre to keep his people in line, too?

Sigmar is way better.

The Emperor used the warp and his psychic abilities to gain power, then made it his goal to wipe out anyone with any psychic abilities or knowledge of the powers of the warp (possibly so nobody could challenge his power, or possibly to avoid paying the chaos gods the price for all the power he got from them). His whole great crusade was an effort to prevent mankind from achieving its psychic potential or gaining any true understanding of the universe, and he ironically disguised it as bringing enlightenment to the universe. Because like any tyrant, he knew that knowledge and power were too dangerous for anyone but himself. The resulting disaster (a 10,000 year civil war) pretty much speaks for itself.

 Spinner wrote:
Slaughtering your own troops because you couldn't take the time to distinguish them from the foaming-at-the-mouth cultists they're fighting is kind of a jerk move. To say the least. Doesn't he use the story of that particular massacre to keep his people in line, too?

I don't know about that story. This is the first I have herd of it.

Davor wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Slaughtering your own troops because you couldn't take the time to distinguish them from the foaming-at-the-mouth cultists they're fighting is kind of a jerk move. To say the least. Doesn't he use the story of that particular massacre to keep his people in line, too?

I don't know about that story. This is the first I have herd of it.

Grand alliance order book when sigmar was closing the gates of ayzr a lot of people were coming through the feuding lores and thanks to the chaos cultists that were mixed in the rabble caused a civil war. Sigmar decided to solve the issue by well vaporizing people who dared to even pick up a weapon chaos cultist or not if I recall correctly.

As josh said sigmar is "benevolent" but not nice.

 shinros wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Slaughtering your own troops because you couldn't take the time to distinguish them from the foaming-at-the-mouth cultists they're fighting is kind of a jerk move. To say the least. Doesn't he use the story of that particular massacre to keep his people in line, too?

I don't know about that story. This is the first I have herd of it.

Grand alliance order book when sigmar was closing the gates of ayzr a lot of people were coming through the feuding lores and thanks to the chaos cultists that were mixed in the rabble caused a civil war. Sigmar decided to solve the issue by well vaporizing people who dared to even pick up a weapon chaos cultist or not if I recall correctly.

As josh said sigmar is "benevolent" but not nice.

I don't even know if I'd use the word 'benevolent'.

He's, uh.

Well, he's definitely opposed to Chaos. Can't argue with that.

 Spinner wrote:

 shinros wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Slaughtering your own troops because you couldn't take the time to distinguish them from the foaming-at-the-mouth cultists they're fighting is kind of a jerk move. To say the least. Doesn't he use the story of that particular massacre to keep his people in line, too?

I don't know about that story. This is the first I have herd of it.

Grand alliance order book when sigmar was closing the gates of ayzr a lot of people were coming through the feuding lores and thanks to the chaos cultists that were mixed in the rabble caused a civil war. Sigmar decided to solve the issue by well vaporizing people who dared to even pick up a weapon chaos cultist or not if I recall correctly.

As josh said sigmar is "benevolent" but not nice.

I don't even know if I'd use the word 'benevolent'.

He's, uh.

Well, he's definitely opposed to Chaos. Can't argue with that.

Sigmar means well does not mean his worshipers are going to always like the "Help" he gives or in what form it comes in. He is the incarnate of heavens according to josh sigmar is slow to anger but like lightning or thunder his fury is great when roused. In the grand alliance order book that was one case. Hell the recent books are alluding to the fact that sigmar is also brain washing the people he turns into stormcast. I mean it helps the fight chaos better right? To help free the realms and prevent them from getting corrupted right?

He is a god and thinks and works on that level in the benefit of humanity in the war against chaos of course many don't see it that way. I am sure many were upset at him sealing the gates of ayzr leaving their loved ones at the hands of chaos but it was necessary. I should of been more clear that he "appears" more "benevolent" if you follow his laws and will.

I like that sigmar is "good" but not too good where you can't see the downsides and issues, sigmar even when he was mortal was very MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY sort of person since he knows best.

A necromancer makes the point in the novel that sigmar would want their help against chaos at the moment but after that? Sigmar would turn his eyes to them considering their nature and their dark magic it would be a prick move but I mean come necromancers and vampires are not "healthy" for the community.

In the audio drama mannfred and the lord relicator get into an argument mannfred talks of nagash as a god and the various locations displaying his power the lord relicator considers nagash not a god for being "driven" into the dark to cower among tattered wraiths Then mannfred burns him or chide's him by noting that "No he would shut the gates of his realm and left his people to die at the talons and blades of his enemies."

Now nagash would have never done that he would keep fighting for what is HIS, his worshipers his minions and the dead to the bitter end(well nagash can't die and mannfred seems to be of the mind of nagash that sigmar is a traitor and coward for sealing himself away) but sigmar made a douche move in turn gave him the chance to actually push back chaos.

Since many realms are not contested like shyish. He made the decision in mind for the sake of his people in all the realms not to expand his power.

Is the brainwashing outright stated or just implied? Cannot remember now.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Is the brainwashing outright stated or just implied? Cannot remember now.

It's implied somewhat.

Well Sigmar is alive and the emperor is dead so their is that.

broxus wrote:
Well Sigmar is alive and the emperor is dead so their is that.

So far. What we are seeing could be an Age of Sigmar equivalent of the Great Crusade. Now we wait for the Horus Heresy.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

broxus wrote:
Well Sigmar is alive and the emperor is dead so their is that.

So far. What we are seeing could be an Age of Sigmar equivalent of the Great Crusade. Now we wait for the Horus Heresy.

Ehm, not really. As far as I remember the great crusade was against xenos and people didn't know of chaos. Her the fight is against chaos and with the support (occasional) of xenos and there's the fact that they can cleanse chaos (like the case of Torglug).

Lord Kragan wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

broxus wrote:
Well Sigmar is alive and the emperor is dead so their is that.

So far. What we are seeing could be an Age of Sigmar equivalent of the Great Crusade. Now we wait for the Horus Heresy.

Ehm, not really. As far as I remember the great crusade was against xenos and people didn't know of chaos. Her the fight is against chaos and with the support (occasional) of xenos and there's the fact that they can cleanse chaos (like the case of Torglug).

You mean brainwash him?

Sigmar pretty much stole him from nurgle via the celestant prime and ghal maraz.

I still sustain that soon all stormcast will be able to do that. Imagine Sigmar: I need more followers! Call in Seid Cuthbert's Star Requisitioners!

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Sigmar is way better.

The Emperor used the warp and his psychic abilities to gain power, then made it his goal to wipe out anyone with any psychic abilities or knowledge of the powers of the warp (possibly so nobody could challenge his power, or possibly to avoid paying the chaos gods the price for all the power he got from them). His whole great crusade was an effort to prevent mankind from achieving its psychic potential or gaining any true understanding of the universe, and he ironically disguised it as bringing enlightenment to the universe. Because like any tyrant, he knew that knowledge and power were too dangerous for anyone but himself. The resulting disaster (a 10,000 year civil war) pretty much speaks for itself.

Umm no. You got that exact opposite. Emperor was guiding mankind TOWARD psychic race since that's inevitable resolution. He just wants it to happen controlled rather than randomly without outside influence.

He's not crazy enough to try to prevent inevitable. Problem is change into psychic race is also the time when race would be most vulnerable to the chaos. Unaided it's almost certain annihilation by chaos.

tneva82 wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Sigmar is way better.

The Emperor used the warp and his psychic abilities to gain power, then made it his goal to wipe out anyone with any psychic abilities or knowledge of the powers of the warp (possibly so nobody could challenge his power, or possibly to avoid paying the chaos gods the price for all the power he got from them). His whole great crusade was an effort to prevent mankind from achieving its psychic potential or gaining any true understanding of the universe, and he ironically disguised it as bringing enlightenment to the universe. Because like any tyrant, he knew that knowledge and power were too dangerous for anyone but himself. The resulting disaster (a 10,000 year civil war) pretty much speaks for itself.

Umm no. You got that exact opposite. Emperor was guiding mankind TOWARD psychic race since that's inevitable resolution. He just wants it to happen controlled rather than randomly without outside influence.

He's not crazy enough to try to prevent inevitable. Problem is change into psychic race is also the time when race would be most vulnerable to the chaos. Unaided it's almost certain annihilation by chaos.

Still, his main point of: he kept knowledge away, still stands. Guy was very manipulative. At least Sigmar is "more" upfront about his goals.

Lord Kragan wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Sigmar is way better.

The Emperor used the warp and his psychic abilities to gain power, then made it his goal to wipe out anyone with any psychic abilities or knowledge of the powers of the warp (possibly so nobody could challenge his power, or possibly to avoid paying the chaos gods the price for all the power he got from them). His whole great crusade was an effort to prevent mankind from achieving its psychic potential or gaining any true understanding of the universe, and he ironically disguised it as bringing enlightenment to the universe. Because like any tyrant, he knew that knowledge and power were too dangerous for anyone but himself. The resulting disaster (a 10,000 year civil war) pretty much speaks for itself.

Umm no. You got that exact opposite. Emperor was guiding mankind TOWARD psychic race since that's inevitable resolution. He just wants it to happen controlled rather than randomly without outside influence.

He's not crazy enough to try to prevent inevitable. Problem is change into psychic race is also the time when race would be most vulnerable to the chaos. Unaided it's almost certain annihilation by chaos.

Still, his main point of: he kept knowledge away, still stands. Guy was very manipulative. At least Sigmar is "more" upfront about his goals.

Yup, then zaps you if you decide to get in his way or his zealots (Devoted of sigmar) or stormcast do it.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Still, his main point of: he kept knowledge away, still stands. Guy was very manipulative. At least Sigmar is "more" upfront about his goals.

Maybe. But then again he's leading human toward good result in a universum which is not doomed to eternal deadlock unlike Sigmar who is in a world where he's unable to either win or lose.

Also btw it's bit weird to criticize emperor for horus heresy etc when there's enough potential hints that all that has happened is exactly as he planned. In otherwords he WANTED what happened to happen.

And if somebody wonders why...Well think of this. He's being sacrificed souls by bucketloads every day. Enough to suggests this could result in him becoming more powerful in the warp(he's result of all shamans on earth combining to one. Adds up that more souls adds up strenght) and when body he currently has dies(as it will inevitably) he will be reborn more poweful than ever. Mayhap even powerful enough to prevent chaos from harming humans again.

Is that "kind"? Well no. GW worlds have never been about being nice. It's less about being nice and more about doing essential to survive. More of law(essential) rather than ethics.

Maybe true, maybe not. With 40k GW was originally smart enough to have potential endings wide open unlike AOS where eternal war without anybody winning is result regardless of what happens. With 40k it can go either way so players have more leeway to explore.