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I'm in a dilemma. My car needs a lot of work to make it road worthy. Nothing serious, just new brakes, shock absorbers and tyres along with some electrical work to get the windows working again. All the things that really matter; the engine, body, gearbox, clutch are all in great condition. And the car only has 74000 miles on it. Not bad for a 14 year old car.

The work won't be cheap, and people keep telling me to scrap it and buy another one. But I don't want to do that because that means taking a leap into the unknown. Another used car means new problems. I know exactly where I am with this one. Also, buying another car will still be more expensive than than repairing this one, unless I cheap out and get a really crap example. Also honestly, it is a really nice car. I've had lots of fun with it and there's a backstory to how I got it too. In short, I'm emotionally attatched to it.

What should I do?

Not sure if you know how to fix brakes but it's not that hard if you have the tools. Shocks are simple remove two bolts and replace... Electric work can be a pain tracing wires to find the short but it's not brain surgery.

get a loan to pay for the repairs.

Work out how much it'll cost to repair, Vs what it'd cost to replace. Repairing will give you a solid car which should be reliable, but replacing could give you the same problem in a year.

Shocks/brakes/tyres are all pretty standard wear & tear items, so they'll need done on any car eventually, and likely soon on a similar age/mileage car anyway.

Of course, if it's going to cost you much less to just buy another equivalent car it's potentially worth the gamble.

The electrics is a bit of a risk though, and I'd get that looked at first because if it's a rogue unfixable issue it'll rule out repairing the rest of it, unless you can get away without the windows working (you can always replace the door/mechanism with a mechanical one though).

What's the car? Loads of cars didn't have electric windows in 2002 so I'm assuming it's not a base spec thing.

Find out the cost to repair vs replace, and find out if either has a warranty.

Some used cars will come with a warranty, depending on the dealer. At 14 years old, unless you've had major work done already, you're sitting on a time bomb of rust and rot, at least you would be in Ontario. The engine may be in good condition, but what about the mounts? What about your wheel bearings? Is your exhaust system going to start blowing holes?

A newer car is probably the safer option. That's all going to add up.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Also, buying another car will still be more expensive than than repairing this one

If you're looking at a new car, you should consider a new car will come with 14 years worth of advances in gas mileage, brakes, and safety.

if you're looking at a used car, then the things you mention on your existing car are generally minor... except the electrical problem, which is an unknown quantity. Keep in mind that just because it's good now, that doesn't mean it's going to stay that way - 14 years is a long way on the inevitable slide to heapdom. While I'm not saying not to fix it, you have to realize if you're going to spend 3 grand on repairs, there's a substantially good chance of the transmission or engine blowing within a year just because it's so old, and then that 3 grand was functionally wasted.

Sounds like a good car if they are your only problems after 14 years. Has it had any large work done previously?
Why not look to see if you can trade it in with a dealer for another MOT'ed, newer second hand.
At 14 years the problems are only going to get worse, faster so it may be better to take the hit now than a harder one later.

One significant element that hasn't been asked - what make of car is it?

I managed to keep my 14~ year old rover past 120k miles with pre-emptive repairs out the wazoo, to about 1/5th th cost of an annual car payment over the period I had it. If your car is worth keeping because they don't make them like that any more (computer controlled engines, various environmentally friendly gubbins that hurt its long term performance) then sometimes it can be worth toughing it out.

But as others have said, it'll die eventually - plan around that :|

Nothing serious, just new brakes, shock absorbers and tyres along with some electrical work to get the windows working again.

It takes just 1-2 hours at repair station.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a 14 years old car ain't what it used to be. For lots of reasons cars are lasting a lot longer than they once did, and keeping an older car can easily work out better in the long run.

Sorry for the late reply. Family strife. Lets see now;

The car is an Alfa Romeo 156. There's no rot anywhere on it at present. It's never had any major work done to it either. Since buying it all I've done is change the handbrake and the windshield wipers. The electrics are...not perfect. Main issues are the driver side windows being stuck up and the central locking no longer working (I have to do it the old fashioned way). These are common issues for Italian cars. And for this particular example, problems eventually developing with the suspension are also common. This in turn also puts extra strain on the tyres. Hence both need looking at. Oh, and a new timing belt is also recommended asap.

I've been told it could cost up to £700 to fix everything that needs fixed, but I'd probably get it down to about £300-400. That's still way cheaper than buying another car. Well I could get one for that price or less but I guarantee it'll be a bad buy. I should know, this one cost £600! I kid though, it's a great car. I just happened to buy it at a point were a lot of its original parts are on their way out. That's all this is, wear and tear.

Considering it's a 14 year old Alfa Romeo you've done pretty well (you might have *the* good one).

Anything you can buy for the £700 to fix is going to be pretty awful to drive in comparison, so I'd stick with it until you get something major go wrong. Your shocks/brakes/tyres should last you a good few years.

Herzlos wrote:
Considering it's a 14 year old Alfa Romeo you've done pretty well (you might have *the* good one).

Anything you can buy for the £700 to fix is going to be pretty awful to drive in comparison, so I'd stick with it until you get something major go wrong. Your shocks/brakes/tyres should last you a good few years.

I've had two alfas without any problem (changed them both at 5 yrs though). My dad's 156 lasted him 15yrs or so and is now in the hands of a friend's daughter who drives it daily to work.

The diesel on that car will last forever, it's usually the electronics that tend to fail (my dad's console screen had some missing lines, but it cost a mint to replace. He also had to replace a front window motor. Other than that just regular maintenance).

IMHO, keep it. The "bones" of a car usually don't start going bad until the 100,000 mile mark, so, theoretically, you've got another 33% of life left on your car before the first big expense. Probably be the water pump if my own experience serves me right.

I'm a bit biased on this matter because I am not a "car guy". Not even a little bit. As far as I'm concerned, they're just a tool that depreciates the minute you sit your butt down in the seat and drive it off the lot. I've owned 5 cars in my life and all, except one, followed the same formula. Buy new, drive to 200K+/- miles with religious adherence to recommended maintenance schedule, repeat.

I'd also say keep it and fix it. Provided everything else is in good condition then you shouldn't have a problem keeping it on the road for a while longer.

If the timing belt/chain snaps while the engine is running then basically it will be a write-off, so fix that.

The other critical failure on a modern car is the central engine management computer dying. The car just won't start. It can cost a few hundred £ to replace and might not fix it, due to security problems matching the new computer to the old engine. This is the problem that made me scrap my beloved Mercedes C180 1996, which had only about 50,000 miles on it and could have gone on for ever. Nearly everything else either just lasts, or can be replaced.

Of course the advisability of any repair/replacement depends on the cost/benefit of the repair compared with just buying another old car with low mileage.

If there is an option available I'd upgrade to timing gears. Significantly more reliable and make a wonderful sounding "wurling" under the hood that makes it sound like you have a supercharger. I did this on my 1987 Monte Carlo and never looked back.

I forgot to mention something important. Actually when I say forgot, I think it's more a case of dreading the answer too much to ask about it in the first place.

When I start her up it flashes a warning. It says that the engine control monitor has failed and I need to go to the dealer. This used to happen only sometimes but now it's every time. The car still starts up fine, and everything else seems to be working ok at least. But I think this could be a serious problem down the line.

It all depends on weither or not it's actually broken or if it just has loose connections, but it's the difference between it costing 300-400 to fix and 700-800 to fix. Also, getting a new ECU is like getting a new kidney/liver/other organ. There's always a chance it could be rejected.

Apparently this is a common problem with this model. It's supposedly down to bad wiring and faulty connections. So it all comes down to this...is it actually broken, or does it just think it's broken.

Put your faith in the Emperor and ask the Magic 8 Ball of answers. If you can't deal with the answer you get you have made a decision, and if not the 8 ball has stopped your torment

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm in a dilemma. My car needs a lot of work to make it road worthy. Nothing serious, just new brakes, shock absorbers and tyres along with some electrical work to get the windows working again. All the things that really matter; the engine, body, gearbox, clutch are all in great condition. And the car only has 74000 miles on it. Not bad for a 14 year old car.

The work won't be cheap, and people keep telling me to scrap it and buy another one. But I don't want to do that because that means taking a leap into the unknown. Another used car means new problems. I know exactly where I am with this one. Also, buying another car will still be more expensive than than repairing this one, unless I cheap out and get a really crap example. Also honestly, it is a really nice car. I've had lots of fun with it and there's a backstory to how I got it too. In short, I'm emotionally attatched to it.

What should I do?

IME the age matters just as much as mileage - you may have a low mileage car on your hands, but a lot happens in 14 years. Interior items will break, etc. not to mention the fact that if you only drove it 74k miles in that time, it sat quite a while which is never good. The types of fixes we're talking about are going to nickel and dime you to death...or whatever weird currency you have in the UK.

You're honestly better off in the long run buying a new car.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I forgot to mention something important. Actually when I say forgot, I think it's more a case of dreading the answer too much to ask about it in the first place.

When I start her up it flashes a warning. It says that the engine control monitor has failed and I need to go to the dealer. This used to happen only sometimes but now it's every time. The car still starts up fine, and everything else seems to be working ok at least. But I think this could be a serious problem down the line.

It all depends on weither or not it's actually broken or if it just has loose connections, but it's the difference between it costing 300-400 to fix and 700-800 to fix. Also, getting a new ECU is like getting a new kidney/liver/other organ. There's always a chance it could be rejected.

Apparently this is a common problem with this model. It's supposedly down to bad wiring and faulty connections. So it all comes down to this...is it actually broken, or does it just think it's broken.

Here in the US we have stores like Autozone that will hook up a code reader to your car to see what the fault really is. May be worth seeing if you have something similar nearby.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I forgot to mention something important. Actually when I say forgot, I think it's more a case of dreading the answer too much to ask about it in the first place.

When I start her up it flashes a warning. It says that the engine control monitor has failed and I need to go to the dealer. This used to happen only sometimes but now it's every time. The car still starts up fine, and everything else seems to be working ok at least. But I think this could be a serious problem down the line.

It all depends on weither or not it's actually broken or if it just has loose connections, but it's the difference between it costing 300-400 to fix and 700-800 to fix. Also, getting a new ECU is like getting a new kidney/liver/other organ. There's always a chance it could be rejected.

Apparently this is a common problem with this model. It's supposedly down to bad wiring and faulty connections. So it all comes down to this...is it actually broken, or does it just think it's broken.

As CptJake pointed out, in the US we have "do it yourself" auto parts stores... If y'all have something like that, check out what their diagnostic computers say...

Other than that. I've never heard anything good about Alfas in a less than dry environment, and your dash light code, plus what you've already described don't give me good feelings. And, Im not talking about bad things in a Top Gear hates them sort of light... I'm talking of friends from that part of the world (UK and Germany mostly) who've had them and had major issues fairly quickly.


I won't say outright, "buy a "new" car" but I will say that you should strongly consider something newer, where you're more certain of having 'only' routine stuff (oil/filters and the like)... I think my one major caveat to this is if you're a gearhead, and are planning on turning the car into something more like a track-day car over time.

 CptJake wrote:
Here in the US we have stores like Autozone that will hook up a code reader to your car to see what the fault really is. May be worth seeing if you have something similar nearby.

Many cars you don't even need to do that, often you can just run a jumper cable across the correct pins and the lights will flash a certain number of times which correspond to different error codes. That's how I diagnosed my Dad's car without having to pay someone to connect a diagnostic tool. Google is a good source of information.

Whether to get rid of the car, really, it's impossible to say. Even a good mechanic looking at the car in the flesh is unlikely to be able to tell you if it's good for another 5 years or if you should replace it.

Cars typically are designed with a lifespan of 10 years, but I've never owned a car newer than 14 years old My daily driver at the moment is 36 years old, my hobby car is 45 years old, the newest car I owned was a 1997 Saturn which I bought when it was 14 years old. They break, I fix them, when I can't be bothered I pay a mechanic to fix them, I haven't spent anywhere near enough money on them to have justified buying newer cars.

But then other times you get a hunk of junk that breaks all the time and costs you a fortune. My Dad sold one of his cars which would have been about 18 years old at the time because it was due for a couple of thousand dollars worth of repairs, bought a newer car and within 2 years has spent more than a couple of thousand dollars on the newer car anyway

The repairs for this car are still going to work out far cheaper than buying a new one, even if they're still expensive to begin with. And despite its issues it's still a fantastic driver, so it can only get better. And I must admit, I am pretty attached to it. I've only had it a year and already there's a tonne of good memories.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The repairs for this car are still going to work out far cheaper than buying a new one, even if they're still expensive to begin with. And despite its issues it's still a fantastic driver, so it can only get better. And I must admit, I am pretty attached to it. I've only had it a year and already there's a tonne of good memories.

Who diagnosed the faults, ? Windows/central locking sounds like door earth.

 loki old fart wrote:
Who diagnosed the faults, ? Windows/central locking sounds like door earth.

I've had a mechanic from Kwik Fit look at it because they were the only ones available at the time. And although they're good, they're notorious for overcharging. To get the work done I'm going to take it to a nearby independent Alfa specialist. The same ones who fitted my handbrake when I first got it. They've been in business for 40 years and the last time I was there they were working on a 60s era Spider and an 80s era 75, so they seem pretty trustworthy, if people trust them with their classics.

...do I sound worried?

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Who diagnosed the faults, ? Windows/central locking sounds like door earth.

I've had a mechanic from Kwik Fit look at it because they were the only ones available at the time. And although they're good, they're notorious for overcharging. To get the work done I'm going to take it to a nearby independent Alfa specialist. The same ones who fitted my handbrake when I first got it. They've been in business for 40 years and the last time I was there they were working on a 60s era Spider and an 80s era 75, so they seem pretty trustworthy, if people trust them with their classics.

...do I sound worried?

When I read your post I thought quik fit or formula one tyres.

Take their advice with a pinch of salt. The mechanics make their bonus by what they sell. I've seen people squirt oil onto shockers and tell the owner his shocks have gone. They've cut pieces out of tyres, and condemned exhausts for surface rust. I have refused to work for them because of that.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I forgot to mention something important. Actually when I say forgot, I think it's more a case of dreading the answer too much to ask about it in the first place.

When I start her up it flashes a warning. It says that the engine control monitor has failed and I need to go to the dealer. This used to happen only sometimes but now it's every time. The car still starts up fine, and everything else seems to be working ok at least. But I think this could be a serious problem down the line.

It all depends on weither or not it's actually broken or if it just has loose connections, but it's the difference between it costing 300-400 to fix and 700-800 to fix. Also, getting a new ECU is like getting a new kidney/liver/other organ. There's always a chance it could be rejected.

Apparently this is a common problem with this model. It's supposedly down to bad wiring and faulty connections. So it all comes down to this...is it actually broken, or does it just think it's broken.

My car continuously lights up the engine monitor warning light because it thinks the exhaust is failing to control the emissions within legal limits. It passed its MOT easily, though. The problem is a 3 litre V6 Jag doesn't like crawling through town at average 2 mph, although it fething eats up motorway cruising, and the town crawling sets off the monitor.

I.e there is nothing wrong with the engine on my car, but the stupid computer thinks there is.

Your car could be the same.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I.e there is nothing wrong with the engine on my car, but the stupid computer thinks there is.

To add to that, while I've never yet owned a car with those newfangled computer things, I've seen the same sort of odd alerts in the cars I use at work. My employer doesn't skimp on equipment so cars seldom get more than two years in the company before replacement. The warranty will have run out anyway due to kilometers driven.

We had one that would light up the "engine fail" lamp but after a long and thorough search the culprit was a faulty tire pressure monitor thingy in a front tire. No one could explain how and why that didn't return as a tire pressure monitor fault, but that's computers for you.

For me the decision is simple. Do you really love working on cars? If so, save it. Otherwise scrap it.