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This thread made me chuckle right from the get-go.

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

Wouldn't it have been faster to just say "No, kronk - actually I'm more concerned with the lack of model options I have" than spin out sarcastic spiel?

Because this post:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/709306.page#9045469

Is on this very page.

So, in other words, "no, it would not have been faster to correct him, I would prefer to appear pretentious."

 kronk wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

+5 points for using the correct "You're"! Honestly, that was refreshing on a forum!

If I was unclear on your needs, wants and desires, it's probably because you never make them known!

You should tell us if you are upset with GW. And if you are, why are you? I'm unclear.

You've read my posts. You should know what I want and why I want it. I haven't been subtle.

 kronk wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


why don't you get 3-d party

From reading all of his posts, I think Pouncey's issue with GW is not the models, it's the rules.

The Sisters codex is midtier. It is super mono build but Ruleswise it is leagues ahead of CSM, Orks, Blood Angels, and Guard. Price is an issue but eBay and third parties exist.

Jacksmiles wrote:
So, in other words, "no, it would not have been faster to correct him, I would prefer to appear pretentious."

More like: "Correcting him is pointless, he's not reading what I'm saying, I'm gonna have some fun instead."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


why don't you get 3-d party

From reading all of his posts, I think Pouncey's issue with GW is not the models, it's the rules.

The Sisters codex is midtier. It is super mono build but Ruleswise it is leagues ahead of CSM, Orks, Blood Angels, and Guard. Price is an issue but eBay and third parties exist.

Price isn't an issue. I already have enough Sisters minis to field any army I want.

 cvtuttle wrote:
This thread made me chuckle right from the get-go.

I thought the 3 pages about Crisps and Chips was golden.

Golden Brown.

Like Fries!

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

Table wrote:

That is a pretty loaded house rule imho. Unless you also house rule the other forms of cheddar.....ie Wraith Knight point cost, riptide wings, super heavy antics and so on. The psychic phase is no more abusive than the previously mentioned content.

It's specifically aimed at negating Daemonfarming, but it also prevents shenanigans like the OP was concerned about, throwing all the warp charge dice at one caster so he can reliably get off multiple high-charge cost powers.

Our other house rules are a 40% Troops requirement and no Allies, which doesn't directly address things like Riptide Wings or Wraithknight spam, but they do cause players to have less points to spend on such things, and prevents people exploiting unintended synergies between armies.

I can certainly get behind a 40% troop req and no allies. As long as wraith Knight points get roughly doubled and riptide wing is handled I think it would be a fun game to play

 Pouncey wrote:

Price isn't an issue. I already have enough Sisters minis to field any army I want.

Why are you bitching?

"I have all of the models I will ever need, but they should make new models!"

That's really telling GW! You be you, Pouncey!

Table wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I'm not going to boycott Magnus because I think he's OP. It's too soon to know one way or the other, for one thing. For another, he's just the first of many Primarchs coming out, both loyal and traitor, and you can be dang sure I'm picking up Lion El'Jonson when he comes out.

I am, however, not going to buy Magnus, because I'm not a Tzeench guy and because of the nipple horns. I mean, seriously, nipple horns? Whose bright idea was that?

Looks like it's time to rebase and spiff up my old Culexes Assassin though.

Also, my group has a house rule - psykers can only use their own Warp Dice and those generated by the Harness the Warp roll at the beginning of the psychic phase. Tones down the excesses of the psychic phase a bit.

That is a pretty loaded house rule imho. Unless you also house rule the other forms of cheddar.....ie Wraith Knight point cost, riptide wings, super heavy antics and so on. The psychic phase is no more abusive than the previously mentioned content.

it is. Probably you haven't faced enough 1-st turn assault invisible deathstars yet.

 kronk wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Price isn't an issue. I already have enough Sisters minis to field any army I want.

Why are you bitching?

"I have all of the models I will ever need, but they should make new models!"

That's really telling GW! You be you, Pouncey!

This is what I like to do with my plastic models:

http://i.imgur.com/vz481VT.jpg

That is the most fun part of WH40k for me. Even more fun than gaming.

That is what I cannot do with metal models. That is what I cannot do with Sisters of Battle infantry.

Magnus is 700 points.

700 is 35% of a 2k list.

Thats one third in one model that's gonna be bracketed by every single heavy weapon the other player has.

7 wounds even with the high level saves.
If someone decides he wants to die then there a good chance he will.

Add in various backups and augments mentioned to boost saves higher and up ability then its on for 1000 or 50% for one model and its support models.

 Pouncey wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Price isn't an issue. I already have enough Sisters minis to field any army I want.

Why are you bitching?

"I have all of the models I will ever need, but they should make new models!"

That's really telling GW! You be you, Pouncey!

This is what I like to do with my plastic models:

http://i.imgur.com/vz481VT.jpg

That is the most fun part of WH40k for me. Even more fun than gaming.

That is what I cannot do with metal models. That is what I cannot do with Sisters of Battle infantry.

Except you can. I've seen it done with metal, I've done it myself with metal, what's the issue?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:
Magnus is 700 points.

700 is 35% of a 2k list.

Thats one third in one model that's gonna be bracketed by every single heavy weapon the other player has.

7 wounds even with the high level saves.
If someone decides he wants to die then there a good chance he will.

Add in various backups and augments mentioned to boost saves higher and up ability then its on for 1000 or 50% for one model and its support models.

Yeah, if he isn't a GMC, I immediately lost interest. I have a hard enough time losing my Bloodthirsters/Great Unclean Ones to Instant Death, this would be overkill.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Except you can. I've seen it done with metal, I've done it myself with metal, what's the issue?

YOU can. OTHERS can.

I CAN'T.

 jhe90 wrote:
Magnus is 700 points.

700 is 35% of a 2k list.

Thats one third in one model that's gonna be bracketed by every single heavy weapon the other player has.

7 wounds even with the high level saves.
If someone decides he wants to die then there a good chance he will.

Add in various backups and augments mentioned to boost saves higher and up ability then its on for 1000 or 50% for one model and its support models.

This. And okay, let's say through the interactions of other powers and rules in the army, he's stupid-durable. He's still only apt to be able to kill one unit a turn. If with your 700pts of non-Magnus units, you completely ignore Magnus and can kill 1+ other units a turn, you're coming out ahead in the exchange.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Accidental double-post. Sorry, gentle friends.

Exactly...

One unit, half your list is built round one unit that cost 50% of the points value.

The rest of the list is basically back up to prevent him being mono targeted plus troops you need to claim objectives.

Now maybe 75% is tied up?

Ita not looking like you have much room to flex when your tiring up 1500 points in mega man, support and objective support.

...

Now suddenly he looks far less OP
When 1000 is getting on for what 2-3 wraithknights. ?

Far less scary....

I don't get how Magnus gets the hate and 90 horrors for 90 points don't.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Sisters codex is midtier

Hey, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night, man.

 koooaei wrote:
I don't get how Magnus gets the hate and 90 horrors for 90 points don't.

What is drives me nuts about Tradio's "argument" is that 10 bolters get 1 wound on a gliding Magnus in rapid fire. If Magnus is buffed or swooping then the wound total is less than 1, but there's still a chance to ping him.

Those same bolteres will get exactly zero glances on a chaos rhino. Why is Tradio not ranting that chaos rhinos are overpowered?

 jhe90 wrote:
Magnus is 700 points.

Well, that kinda makes him not overpowered at all. I could think of, for numerous armies, 700 points of stuff that would crush him completely in one turn (two tops). and could still be used on the rest of the CSM army.

 Melissia wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Magnus is 700 points.

Well, that kinda makes him not overpowered at all. I could think of, for numerous armies, 700 points of stuff that would crush him completely in one turn. and could still be used on the rest of the CSM army.

Space Marine Sniper Scouts.
Space Marine Sternguard in Drop Pods.
Wulfen plus a Librarius Conclave.
Skitarii Vanguard.

Admittedly, three of those four examples are from very high tier codecs, but the point still stands. While it does point to a balance issue in 40k, it certainly won't bring CSM to top-tier.

Edit: Wulfen math, since I didn't do it yet!

5 Wulfen with TH/SS on the charge put out 25 attacks, even if some die, thanks to Death Frenzy. They hit on 4s, for 12.5 hits, wounding on 2s, for 10.42 wounds, for around 4.8 wounds after all is said and done. So they won't one-turn him, like I thought, but Magnus is only S8. (Unless, was his Staff SD? I'll assume it is.) He has 6 attacks, hitting on 3s, for 4 hits. That's .67 6s on the D table, and 2.67 regular D hits, for 1.56 dead Wulfen. We'll round that up to 2.

Next turn, Magnus swings again, but again, the Wulfen still attack even if they die. So that's 9 attacks, 4.5 hits, 3.75 wounds, for about 1.7 wounds after saves, leaving Magnus on .5 wounds. Magnus swings, killing 1 this time (1.56*2 is barely over 3, after all), leaving 2 left alive.

That's 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, around 1 or so after saves, so Magnus dies. It does take 3 rounds of combat (assuming you don't pop another Wulfen squad in there to deal with him) but Magnus can't do jack in that time.

Also, I didn't even factor in the Wulfen Murderpack bonus, which would probably drop him in two turns.

 Pouncey wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Except you can. I've seen it done with metal, I've done it myself with metal, what's the issue?

YOU can. OTHERS can.

I CAN'T.

So what's the issue? You said you have enough models to field any army. Either GW will release Sisters with a new plastic line or they won't. I don't see how them reproducing metal models in plastic is something to hold against them, when the models themselves are 10+ years old and in need of an update.

Yeah, Magnus is good. I wouldn't want him in my games (though I wouldn't make it a "no, never, ever" thing, just a "please don't let me see him every goddamn time I fight a CSM army" thing) mostly because I hate 30k and find it terribly boring and the changes to how the primarchs are portrayed is the most obvious symbol of this... but as far as game balance goes I don't really see much wrong with him for htat cost.

 jhe90 wrote:
Magnus is 700 points.

700 is 35% of a 2k list.

Seems legit to me. I think I can take him with a couple WKs firing S(D) guns.

I typically play 1,500, so 700 pts would be basically half of an army. Is he worth half? Probably not.

If anything, Magnus is overpriced and underpowered. The OP needs to learn to play better.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Seems legit to me. I think I can take him with a couple WKs firing S(D) guns.

Only if you get first turn though. Magnus has a str D Beam that is 18". It's WC5, but considering he harnesses WC on a 2+, about 7 dice ought to make that.
All Magnus has to do is fly up and beam both WKs and it's over. So you definitely want to spread out the WKs

Having personally played against 6 Flying Hive tyrants with 3 WKs, I can tell you from experience that getting a D hit on a FMC is not that easy
But considering the Magnus coast as much as Fateweaver & Belakor COMBINED, I feel that he is priced accordingly. Tsons are already an elite army, so fielding Magnus will be tricky and having 33% of your eggs in the same basket is rarely a good idea.

Magnus's power level is not a valid reason to boycott the supplement. The Horrors "Split" rule on the other hand....

...will depend on if they can use Daemonology. The absence of the rule on their datasheet does NOT prevent access to the rule as the BRB gives specific permission to use it.
Their datacheets must say something to the effect of "cannot manifest Deamonology" or "generates powers ONLY from Change" or some such wording. As the Datasheets for Blue & Brimstone Horrors have been leaked and no such verbiage exists, RAW Horrors can use Daemonology.
Daemon Factor just got a whole lot easier.

-

 Galef wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Seems legit to me. I think I can take him with a couple WKs firing S(D) guns.

Only if you get first turn though. Magnus has a str D Beam that is 18". It's WC5, but considering he harnesses WC on a 2+, about 7 dice ought to make that.
All Magnus has to do is fly up and beam both WKs and it's over. So you definitely want to spread out the WKs

Having personally played against 6 Flying Hive tyrants with 3 WKs, I can tell you from experience that getting a D hit on a FMC is not that easy
But considering the Magnus coast as much as Fateweaver & Belakor COMBINED, I feel that he is priced accordingly. Tsons are already an elite army, so fielding Magnus will be tricky and having 33% of your eggs in the same basket is rarely a good idea.

Magnus's power level is not a valid reason to boycott the supplement. The Horrors "Split" rule on the other hand....

...will depend on if they can use Daemonology. The absence of the rule on their datasheet does NOT prevent access to the rule as the BRB gives specific permission to use it.
Their datacheets must say something to the effect of "cannot manifest Deamonology" or "generates powers ONLY from Change" or some such wording. As the Datasheets for Blue & Brimstone Horrors have been leaked and no such verbiage exists, RAW Horrors can use Daemonology.
Daemon Factor just got a whole lot easier.

-

That's only if he rolls two 6s on the D Beam. That will instagib the Wraithknights, but the odds of that happening are 1/36. He does have an 11/36 chance of gibbing ONE Wraithknight, but not likely to do both. And if you deploy them far away from each other, he can't even hit both.

Yup. If he were "only" 500 pts, that'd raise an eyebrow. But at 700 pts? Eh.

Agreed that the unending recursive Horrors are the real threat. But the number of models you'd need to buy to make that work? Who'd do that?

 JNAProductions wrote:

That's only if he rolls two 6s on the D Beam. That will instagib the Wraithknights, but the odds of that happening are 1/36. He does have an 11/36 chance of gibbing ONE Wraithknight, but not likely to do both. And if you deploy them far away from each other, he can't even hit both.

Sorry for not being clear. My point was that once Magnus is in the air, the WKs will not be able to reliably hurt him, even with a Guide Seer. Magnus will thus have multiple turns to beam them or other targets.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Agreed that the unending recursive Horrors are the real threat. But the number of models you'd need to buy to make that work? Who'd do that?

I would do that, at least with 1 unit of Pinks. I suspect GW will soon release a box that contains 10 Blue horrors & 10 Brimstone horror bases. Until then, I am busy planning conversions

-

Magnus costs the same as Fateweaver and Belakor combined?

Hmm, that's my 1500 point unbound army sorted.

The Three Magicseers!

 Galef wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Agreed that the unending recursive Horrors are the real threat. But the number of models you'd need to buy to make that work? Who'd do that?

I would do that, at least with 1 unit of Pinks. I suspect GW will soon release a box that contains 10 Blue horrors & 10 Brimstone horror bases. Until then, I am busy planning conversions

Overhead at GWHQ...
- cha-ching!

Which, BTW is totally fine.

What with the Tzeentch focus, I wonder with the next M2O sale might bring back from the vaults...

Am I the only one who would treat fighting him like a boss battle? We be interesting to see how he does in 1250-1500 since it would make his significance to the army much more imposing.