Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So which Flying Circus is better?

We have had the Tetrad for quite some time now and there are pages upon pages of discussion on it.
The new formation on the block is Fateweaver and 1-3 Lords of Change, and they all get to re-roll 1's for Psychic tests, To hits & To wound rolls. As well as re-rolling Seize and Reserve rolls

So right off the bat, I see it as better that the Tetrad. You don't lose T6 if one dies AND they have 1 more wound that DPs
You get re-rolls for just about every thing, on every model. And all the LoC can get str8 from their staff, something non-Tzeentch DPs may struggle to get.
Another potentially HUGE bouns is that the Oracles do not have to have 4 FMCs like the Tetrad. You can just have FW + 2 LoCs, leaving points for more options, like say tons of Horrors that split into more Horrors.

The only downside I can see so far are:
A) only access to Change, Divination & Malefic from the LoCs. Not overly detrimental, but the Tetrad can use Telepathy and Biomancy
B) Not being part of the Incursion, so not able to re-roll Instability or have Corruption. Again, not too bad since you can still run an Incursion and benefit fromt he +1/-1 WarpStorm.

-

Like you have said: there are bonuses to both.

If you are running a Tzeentch army, are taking FW anyway, are taking lots of DS units or only need to summon and put out Tzeentch witchfires then go for the Omniscent Oracles.

However if you are no worried about the above and are ok with taking a risk then go with the Tetrad. The Tetrad has potential to put out a lot of firepower if everything goes right: you get casting on a 3+, your Slaanesh prince gets Iron arm, your Tzeentch prince gets the SD power, you get cursed earth, you get psychic shriek and the warpstorm is being nice; then you have the potential to put out a hell of a lot of damage on whatever your opponant brings that you just wouldn't get with the LoCs.

I think oracles is better.

They are tougher, and IT can get expensive, really quickly.

This allows a ton of psychic shooting, and lets your MCs to stay in the air and be effective, something Tetrad struggles with, especially at its price point.

So Tetrad at it's best is better the Oracles, but that is actually its weakness as it relies on getting certain powers and rewards. The Oracles on the other hand have set values (like the re-rolls, T6 all the time, str8 all the time, etc).

My prediction is that the Oracles will be more popular in Tourneys for this reason. Outside of Tourneys, though, it will probably be 50/50

Yeah but who plays Daemons for consistancy?

Oracles without a doubt. It's main advantage is it can be scaled from 1-3 Lords of Change, allowing you to still field a proper army.

If you really want a DP for Telepathy, you could always take Belakor in your Incursion + an Oracle with FW + 2 LoCs. It would be about the cost of the Tetrad and you can cast Invis on the LoC that doesn't have the robe. Or Cast Shrouding to give ALL the Oracles a 2+ re-rollable Jink.

I agree that the Oracles are more stable through their higher thougness and a bit more flexible when building a list.

But i think they lack the flexibility and raw power of the Tetrad. You have more psychic disciplines and can respond to every situation, and the Tetrad princes can often go beyond Str 8.

I think both have their uses and can be good.

I am a bit sad, that in a standard game it will never be possible to mix them together, cause of their high cost.

 Darksider wrote:

I am a bit sad, that in a standard game it will never be possible to mix them together, cause of their high cost.

Standard Tetrad is around 1300pts and the Oracles only require 1 LoC. You could cram all 4 DPs, FW and 1 LoC into 1850 with very minimal downgrades.
Probably just drop a ML or 2 on the Nurgle Prince, make him more of a CC FMC like the Khorne Prince and there you go.

-

Oh forgot that you only can take Fw + 1 LoC =).

But would it be good to take Fw to a Tetrad? Cause you have to make the Tzeentch DP the WL for giving all DPs his trait.

Would a list with Tetrad + Oracles be good?

 Darksider wrote:
Oh forgot that you only can take Fw + 1 LoC =).

But would it be good to take Fw to a Tetrad? Cause you have to make the Tzeentch DP the WL for giving all DPs his trait.

Would a list with Tetrad + Oracles be good?

Quite possibly. A pure unadulterated 6 FMC list with a bunch of WC, and a reliable Grimoire bearer could be a bear now that summoning a unit of horrors is equivalent to summoning about 40 wounds worth of models that can split into multiple units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm just stoked that you it's a 1- 3 LoC requirement. I frequently write lists that are Fateweaver and 1 LoC so being able bring them in a formation that buffs for literally no penalty is pretty sweet. I *almost* always have some type of Herald in the list so there's literally no down side to it for me

I like Oracles. Can't wait to run it and complement them with an Incursion list.


Would it be too much to throw Magnus into the mix as well? Hmmm.....

So Magnus and Omniscient Oracles might look something like this?

Fateweaver
LoC: ML3, Robes, 1x Greater, Lesser

Tzerald: ML3, Paradox OR Locus of More Horrors (sorry forgot the name)
Tzerald: ML2, Grimoire

12x Pink Horrors
11x Pink Horrors

Sorceror (barebones)

10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Magnus

Question is, do you have to take a TS detachment to get Magnus (thus requiring MoT on cultist and sorc) or is he a LoW for Generic CSM?

Good question. I would assume so (he is listed as faction thousand sons on his box) but would have to check the book.

Tetrad cost too much to kit every prince out. And DP of Khorne tends to be very underwhelming, he is useless in the air besides vector striking and if you keep him on the ground he usually dies first to die, It's hard to make his points back in games.

I would def take Magnus, which is far superior than DPs of Khorne + Slaanesh combined. Magnus + fatey and 1 LoC is probably much stronger than Tetrad.

Magnus + Oracles would look like this:

100pt Sorceror
10 Tzaangors
10 Tzaangors
Magnus

Fateweaver
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Robes
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Paradox
-----------------------------------------------------------------------1850pts

Definitely stronger than a Tetrad, but is a bit lacking on its ground elements. You could drop 1 LoC for a Herald + Horrors CAD, but it's probably better to just summon those and keep the 2nd LoC.

Personally, I'll still be using the Tetrad + Tallyband, cuz I have the models, but I will be more tempted to Summon Pink Horrors now.
-

I'm probably going to build the above list. If, that is, they release a new LOC model.

They are plastic LoCs for AoS. 2 for $60 even:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Deathlords-Morghast-Archai

Eh. Not a fan.

 Galef wrote:

 Darksider wrote:

I am a bit sad, that in a standard game it will never be possible to mix them together, cause of their high cost.

Standard Tetrad is around 1300pts and the Oracles only require 1 LoC. You could cram all 4 DPs, FW and 1 LoC into 1850 with very minimal downgrades.
Probably just drop a ML or 2 on the Nurgle Prince, make him more of a CC FMC like the Khorne Prince and there you go.

-

That would be an interesting list. I'm not sure it would be very effective but its turns would probably be faster than most other daemons armies due to the low model count.

Should also compare Rehati War Sect, Magnus, and 3 CSM DPs. Basically standard kit for the Tz DPs, Wings, lvl3, comes out to be 275 pts each. 3+ harness and ignore LOS shrieks are pretty ridiculous...

Edit: And all you need is one Cursed Earth and everyone will have 3++(2++ for Magnus) re-roll 1s.

The downside is that every DP has to roll one power in the Tz discipline (Just hope you get Doombolt, Baleful Devolution or Treason of Tz)

Deamonic Incursion + Omniecence

Masque of Slaanesh
10 x Daemonettes
10 x Daemonettes
10 x Daemonettes
3 x Fiends
3 x Fiends
3 x Fiends

Herald, Seeker, ML2, Loci of Beguilement, Exalted reward
10 x Seekers
10 x Seekers, Heartseeker
Chariot
Chariot
Chariot
Exalted Chariot


Fateweaver
LoC, ML3, Paradox, Lesser Rewards

Comes to 1850

It'd be way more efficient to take the oracles then squeeze belakor in somewhere.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm probably going to build the above list. If, that is, they release a new LOC model.

You've seen the new Lord of Change model, yes?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm probably going to build the above list. If, that is, they release a new LOC model.

Looks like you're building that list.

Oh, don't you worry. My wife is already glaring at me for when I buy three of them.

Such a pretty model!

I'm working on Magnus now. Wife would kill me if I bought another big ass model without finishing what i have!

I will be getting 2. 1 as kairos and 1 as LoC but may not get them ready for my tournament let alone how i am going to get both on to a plane to fly back to UK

I did some tinkering and came up with the below list. It's 20WC, still allows Fateweaver, Magnus and one LOC, but by using the VSG they stay pretty safe from an Alpha Strike and the Aegis lets Brimstone/Blue horrors sit inside them and camp an objective forever.

___________________

Thousand Sons CAD:

Sorc

Level 1, MOT

2x 10 Cultists

Magnus

Void Shield Generator (3 Shields)

Omniscient Oracles:

Fateweaver

LOC
Paradox, Greater Reward, ML3


Daemon CAD:

Herald
ML2, Grimoire, Disc

Blue Horrors
11 Horrors

Blue Horrors
11 Horrors

Brimstone Horrors

Aegis Defense Line