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Anyone notice that for alpha legion they have a rule Cult uprising if a unit of cultists is destroyed 4+ you get a new unit. But that is a separate rule (although the similar) as the lost and the dammed A tide of traitors XD
So you loose a unit of cultists, roll 2d6 if you get 2 4+'s you just gained TWO units of 10 cultists, one can outflank the other is on going reserves.
These units count as part of the detachment too, so when they die, yep 2d6...
Knew there was a reason i painted 60 for one of my CSM armies.
-- not to forget all units of cultists have infiltrate so buy 4 units in the LaTD formation slap them in the enemies grill and watch them grow

edit: well actually if you roll the 4+ for the unit using cult uprising it becomes part of the detachment not formation so i guess if that unit then dies its only 1 d6

 Latro_ wrote:
Just MoG + Tali isnt all that bad

Its just one of the units obviously but..
2d6 before the game
9" move
2d6 + 3 + 3 charge with a re-roll for fleet

max 39" first turn charge XD
MIN 19"!!!
Average is what 29" before you even factor in fleet re-rolls

Increasing that minimum to 25" and the average to above 30 is great. First turn charge is pretty possible/realistic in anything except hammer and anvil. Plus, I love Magnus. Just give me Angron and I'll go full Khorne, but until then.....

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Maybe something along the lines of Black Legion with Raptors Talon and then a small Death Guard Terminator Anihilation Force? Or is that far too big?

Yea I thought of that too. Not sure it helps that much mind you. It's more expensive and while tougher, you still loose a lot of bite after turn two and there's the issue of not having any obsec at all. I wonder if using a CAD for obsec termies might be more beneficial than a bit more survivability. It should allow for taking a fire raptor or storm eagle too, which should help considering the serious lack of AA so far. A storm eagle could also act as a transport for the zerkers. WS5 + hatred isn't that bad after all.

Which got thinking about a BL juggerlord with psychic support. The discipline of nurgle goes surprisingly well with a unit of juggerlords.
(assuming they get furious charge here and S6 given the availabilty of S+2 weapons for khorne.)
Curse of the leper works well either way. +1 T means the lords would have T6, +1S would cause instant death on T4 and -1T and -1S work both to protect them and it causes instant death on T4 and in the case of a hounds of abbadon lord even cause instant death on T5 on a good charge.
Everything in gift of contagion is helpful in melee since shrouding wouldn't help your opponent.
Fleshy abundance isn't wasted on 4 wound models and blades of putrefaction makes a BL juggerlord with aobf really dangerous.
He has built in hatred and wounds pretty much anything on a 2+ with S6+,with blades he would re-roll to wound as well and he would still be a threat for the occasional MC.

Then have another unmarked sorc roll on sinistrum for death hex mostly to do maybe do something about those pesky invulnerable saves.
Diabolic Strength would be nice with force too. Warpfate is always good. That or spam biomancy/telapathy with the remaining cabal sorcs.
Ley leach would be amazing but the rest in geomortis isn't much use.

With a spawn escort you would have a fast high toughness unit with high offensive power and a ton of wounds.
Haven't thought about points but I can't say I'm confident that such a thing would be viable.

Say I have the super detachment for world eaters. Can I take relics from the regular CSM codex as well as from the world eaters relics list (not multiple on the same character of course)

Yes that still works.

I have literally the perfect list for me.....and 653 points to spare. MAGNUS WHY CAN'T YOU BE A STANDALONE FORMATION???

 luke1705 wrote:
I have literally the perfect list for me.....and 653 points to spare. MAGNUS WHY CAN'T YOU BE A STANDALONE FORMATION???

Got a WE formation to share? I'd love more lists to look at for the bloody maniacs.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
I have literally the perfect list for me.....and 653 points to spare. MAGNUS WHY CAN'T YOU BE A STANDALONE FORMATION???

Got a WE formation to share? I'd love more lists to look at for the bloody maniacs.

Yeah I decided to go all out khorne and have a bunch of mini death stars....or if I go first...just ONE lol.

Using the world eaters detachment, and also the special world eaters decurion detachment:

Core: Maelstrom of gore (completely minimum except for melta bombs on the zerker champions) - 600 points
Command: Juggerlord w/MoK, Gorefather - 140
Command: Juggerlord w/MoK, Talisman, power fist - 160
Command: Juggerlord w/MoK, Bloodfeeder - 140 (initially I thought this would be a bad idea, but he still gets his two weapon bonus, and his +2A for charging, so that's 2d6 + 3 attacks)
Aux: Token Spawn w/MoK - 32

My second detachment is also a world eaters detachment, but just from a normal CSM CAD:

Juggerlord w/MoK, AoBF - 145
5 CSM w/MoK (also an extra CC weapon instead of the boltgun because I can) - 85
5 CSM w/MoK, swap boltgun for cc weapon - 85
Chaos Knight Errant w/MoK, 1st War of Armageddon Relic - 455

I'm still 8 points short...will probably throw in another melta bomb somewhere unless someone else has a better idea.

The idea of the list is that every zerker unit (plus whichever juggerlords and kharn are attached to them) will move 2d6" before the game starts. Talisman squad will move an extra 3". The game begins, and the juggerlords push forward, stringing the zerkers behind them to maintain coherency. Worst case scenario, at this point we've moved 14", talisman squad has moved 17". Can't run and charge but each zerker unit in the maelstrom formation has +3" to their charge, and although any unit that is joined by a juggerlord loses fleet, the detachment still re-rolls failed charge rolls. Only dudes who can't do that are the normal CSM since they're not in the big formation (but I'll take Obsec, it's OK). So with that re-roll, you're looking at going from a 7" made charge on average to just shy of a 9" made charge (it's a 47% chance to make it at 9", so let's just call it that). But remember, that's before you add 3" from the maelstrom formation. So 12" charge.

At this point, the normal squads have moved 14" and will charge 12" more, so you're 2" into your opponent's deployment zone. With the talisman squad, you get an additional 3", so you're 8" into your opponent's deployment zone turn 1 (with a 9" charge).

Now let's assume you don't get worst case scenario and the 2d6 is just average (7"). Add 6" to the numbers above. Your non-talisman maelstrom units willl be 5" away from their deployment zone with footsloggers BEFORE you make your charge roll). Your talisman unit will be....2" away from your opponent's deployment zone.....BEFORE you roll the charge. Thunder puppies got nothing on this.

So, what are the odds that you make a turn 1 charge with the non-talisman units? Well, I'd be pretty spread out with 4 potential units, so it's pretty hard to counter-deploy. I'll say that I just won't count the base widths and that he's hiding so far back that it's like I have to touch the back board edge (worst case scenario and total board control ceded). Well, you're 17" away from the back of their board edge turn 1, so you'd need to roll a 14 (realistically probably more like a 8 to 10, because no one cedes THAT MUCH board control, even to avoid getting turn 1 charged). If you needed a 8, you make that 66% of the time with your re-roll. If you needed a 10, you make that roughly 30 percent of the time with your re-roll. Not awesome, but that's with them counter deploying and turtling basically as much as humanly possible in dawn of war.

Ok talisman guys, what can you do? Well, sitting 2" outside of the deployment zone, and getting a total 6" bonus to the charge means that to touch the back table edge, you would need an 8 on your charge roll. (Which you'll get 66% of the time, as we said before). What if they deploy 6" up? well, technically, you would still need to be a millimeter of an inch past 24", so you'd need to not roll snake eyes both times on your re-rollable charge.

Worth pointing out that I'll have the option of switching around my lords after I roll the 2d6 if I roll poorly. Yes, they won't be on the front lines, but with their 12" movement, they'll certainly be able to get within coherency of any squad that rolled better on their 2d6, meaning that maybe I only get 2 or 3 turn 1 charges (average is a little over 2 FYI) but the lords will be able to join the party and swing in the first turn, even from the squad(s) that rolled poorly on their 2d6. This also is how the zerkers will be able to slingshot into combat.

For those of you who have ever seen independent characters with the necron wraiths, it's similar to that.

Now, just to humor ourselves, let's see how bad it is with hammer and anvil deployment. It goes without saying that we will still be able to get a turn 2 charge, but what about turn 1?

Let's start with the non-talisman unit(s). On average, we're getting a 7" "scout" or whatever this move is going to be called (though it is not a scout of course). 12" move from the lord, plus a 12" charge on average with the re-roll. So we've moved 31", which is completely respectable. But as long as your opponent keeps his guys back in his deployment zone, you aren't going to reach him. Even with perfect rolls (12 on 2d6, 12 on charge), that's 39". Amazing for essentially a squad of footslogging marines in one turn, of course, but that's 15" into your opponent's 24" deployment zone, so even though his bases are probably at least 1-2" wide, he can also counter-deploy to make your charge ranges a little longer if he REALLY wants to turtle. Plus, it still isn't going to put him into harm's way unless he decides he doesn't want to cede the board control.

Ok talisman guys, let's see what you've got. Well basically, we just add 6" to the numbers above, so you're 13" into the opponent's deployment zone ON AVERAGE and 21" into his deployment zone with perfect rolling. Does that get you the turn 1 charge? Again, no, he can turtle, but if he wants to do so reliably, he's basically constrained to set up at least 37 inches away from you (to stop a 50% charge), and 45.01" away if he wants to stop your perfect rolling.

Also, just a tidbit, since you move the closest to the closest model, sometimes you can avoid the distance penalty for charging through terrain since the lord is cavalry (but the other dudes still can't touch it on their way in, so this is pretty situational).

And for those of you who play Apoc and still like to assault (me) and have an attraction to anything large and choppy (me), the lord of skulls formation can be replaced with 3 Krytans, which are immensely superior and also super cheap. You can't fit them plus a core choice from the Khorne super detachment at 1850 sadly, which is super sad because the walkers also get the 2d6" pre-game move. RIP Chaos Knight from my CAD.

I'd recommend just doing cultists in your allied detachment. The Marines really won't be adding anything to the list so you can save some points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd recommend just doing cultists in your allied detachment. The Marines really won't be adding anything to the list so you can save some points.

I thought about it, but the marines get fearless, furious charge, adamantium will, rage and counter-attack.....that's 2 attacks base since i swapped out their gun, 4 on the charge at str 5...i'll take that for 35 points

 luke1705 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd recommend just doing cultists in your allied detachment. The Marines really won't be adding anything to the list so you can save some points.

I thought about it, but the marines get fearless, furious charge, adamantium will, rage and counter-attack.....that's 2 attacks base since i swapped out their gun, 4 on the charge at str 5...i'll take that for 35 points

Think about this rationally though. Are they really going to be at the enemy any time soon to make use of those bonuses, or would they likely be stuck on an objective keeping it?

You'll enjoy the saved points in the long run.

Another thing I'm pondering is how the Legions interact with different allies. You could theoretically do Zahndrekh and Iron Warriors to guarantee a blob of Tank Hunters with Obliterator Support if that was your cup of tea. One thing that's of interest is whether the Iron Warrior ability to re-roll ordnance/barrage scatters would work if an IW IC joined a Renegades and Heretics Artillery Battery and got rerollable Colossus or Earthshaker shots...

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Another thing I'm pondering is how the Legions interact with different allies. You could theoretically do Zahndrekh and Iron Warriors to guarantee a blob of Tank Hunters with Obliterator Support if that was your cup of tea. One thing that's of interest is whether the Iron Warrior ability to re-roll ordnance/barrage scatters would work if an IW IC joined a Renegades and Heretics Artillery Battery and got rerollable Colossus or Earthshaker shots...

Thats a good point. Honestly I don't think it'll work but we'll just see how they word it. Having a IW IC stuck out of action to provide more accurate fire would be a fair trade me.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Another thing I'm pondering is how the Legions interact with different allies. You could theoretically do Zahndrekh and Iron Warriors to guarantee a blob of Tank Hunters with Obliterator Support if that was your cup of tea. One thing that's of interest is whether the Iron Warrior ability to re-roll ordnance/barrage scatters would work if an IW IC joined a Renegades and Heretics Artillery Battery and got rerollable Colossus or Earthshaker shots...

I think more importantly we need to list down all the fortifications that benefit from that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd recommend just doing cultists in your allied detachment. The Marines really won't be adding anything to the list so you can save some points.

I thought about it, but the marines get fearless, furious charge, adamantium will, rage and counter-attack.....that's 2 attacks base since i swapped out their gun, 4 on the charge at str 5...i'll take that for 35 points

Think about this rationally though. Are they really going to be at the enemy any time soon to make use of those bonuses, or would they likely be stuck on an objective keeping it?

You'll enjoy the saved points in the long run.

Even as objective sitters, the marines are superior unless the cultists have a 4+ cover save. The marines will die to the last man, and if anything tries to charge them, they'll put up a lot more of a fight than the cultists. TBH, if I had something else to spend the points on, I could, but it's not even that much since the cultists need to have a mark of khorne also, so they're a 70 point squad instead of a 50. I could just not do the detachment at all, but then the lord doesn't benefit from the bonuses.

Anyone consider running an EC army with a kakophoni and CAD? The only thing a noise marine unit has on a marine unit is sonic weaponry at the additional cost of 2 pts a model. The drugs are situational on the sonics unless you want a unit that can shoot and chop. Which seems like wasted points. The drugs are cool but just not worth it to me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Another thing I'm pondering is how the Legions interact with different allies. You could theoretically do Zahndrekh and Iron Warriors to guarantee a blob of Tank Hunters with Obliterator Support if that was your cup of tea. One thing that's of interest is whether the Iron Warrior ability to re-roll ordnance/barrage scatters would work if an IW IC joined a Renegades and Heretics Artillery Battery and got rerollable Colossus or Earthshaker shots...

I think more importantly we need to list down all the fortifications that benefit from that.

Currently the only barrage weapon out there is the Fragstorm/Krakstorm on the Fortress of Redemption. In practice, I think the Vengeance Weapon Battery is the best bang for your buck; 85 points for an AV 14 reroll scatter Battle Cannon is...actually not that bad, even if you're forced to shoot the closest target. The Wall of Martyrs Bunker is neat, at 55 points for a bunker for your Auto Havocs; shame ITC doesnt let you use Geomortis to move terrain around. Sadly you can't get rerolls on an Aquila Macro-Cannon as it's a Primary weapon rather than Ordnance but you can get the re-rolls for Vortex weapons.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Another thing I'm pondering is how the Legions interact with different allies. You could theoretically do Zahndrekh and Iron Warriors to guarantee a blob of Tank Hunters with Obliterator Support if that was your cup of tea. One thing that's of interest is whether the Iron Warrior ability to re-roll ordnance/barrage scatters would work if an IW IC joined a Renegades and Heretics Artillery Battery and got rerollable Colossus or Earthshaker shots...

I think more importantly we need to list down all the fortifications that benefit from that.

Currently the only barrage weapon out there is the Fragstorm/Krakstorm on the Fortress of Redemption. In practice, I think the Vengeance Weapon Battery is the best bang for your buck; 85 points for an AV 14 reroll scatter Battle Cannon is...actually not that bad, even if you're forced to shoot the closest target. The Wall of Martyrs Bunker is neat, at 55 points for a bunker for your Auto Havocs; shame ITC doesnt let you use Geomortis to move terrain around. Sadly you can't get rerolls on an Aquila Macro-Cannon as it's a Primary weapon rather than Ordnance but you can get the re-rolls for Vortex weapons.

I feel there will be HQ taxes a lot, so we can always have the HQ guys babysit the Cannons.

1k sons got the whole different playstyle with tzaangork boyz instead of marines and cultists, and unkillable pink dollar batteries to charge up your mages and Magnus the Nipplehorned.

.. so much text...

Two things:
Juggerlords Have fleet
Walkers don't get the WE 2d6 deployment move from the detachment. They do get 're roll charge tho.

 koooaei wrote:


I'll try it out and say how it goes. I'm desperate to make night lords - my favorite legion - work, lol. Even if it takes just a small force. Their thing is fear. But fear is so underwhelming in current meta. I can't remember a game in the last couple years where anybody except my orks failed a fear check and it meant something other than an allready obvious outcome - like in case of one sister vs a bunch of spawns or a couple tau fire warriors vs raptors.

There is way too much focus on the fear rule. Who cares about fear.

The advantage of the Night Lords is definitely in the charge rerolls, +1 cover during night fighting, really good warlord traits and the awesome artefacts. Every artefact is really good, aside from maybe the enemy reserve rolls, mostly due to it costing 30 points. Those Claws even have +1 S which I dont think was posted before.

The downside is that you can't run a CAD if you want to take full advantage of your cover. This forces you to take a Chaos Warband and take an Elite + CSM troops. However, Im starting to wonder if its not even that bad of an option as a second wave of close combaters. Like I said before, I think the biggest problem is that you are forced to take 3 HQs for a Daemon Prince, unless you go Spawn/Heldrake formation as Aux. This would be less of a problem for me if you could take 2 of these Artefact claws, but there just arent enough good weapons to choose from.

If I were to write the rules for NL, I would've done the exact same thing except make VotLW give +1 cover save instead of stealth (so it applies during night fighting which would always be guaranteed, formations or not), and made the detachment bonus be something like hit and run, and/or fear applies to fearless enemies. Maybe make it so Raptors can be taken instead of CSM in the Chaos Warband (and similar treatment for the other legions).

All they need is to actually make fear not be worthless 99% of the time. Applying it to fearless enemies is probably an overextension but not to atsknf enemies at least.

Does anyone have a screen of these legion tactics? Like actual screen shot leaks? I want to know if the emperor's children combat drugs stack, are useable every round, or its a one time thing for the rest of the game.

War of sigmar has screenshots

 Dayknight wrote:

Does anyone have a screen of these legion tactics? Like actual screen shot leaks? I want to know if the emperor's children combat drugs stack, are useable every round, or its a one time thing for the rest of the game.

You roll one dice at the start of the game, all non vehicle units in the detachment get that buff for the whole game.
1 - WS
2 - BS
3 - Int
4 - S
5 - T
6 - A

Its the ducurion rule so you need a warband or a kakophoni + 1 aux.

Quite funny since you have the slannesh psy power that can also give you +1 int, s or a

Lol also in theory you could take fabius in a cad enhance one unit, roll a 4 and get that power off somehow and you have a unit of marines with S7 XD autocannonfists

Has anyone noticed the wording on the 2d6 attack relic for world eaters? It seems to be that you take a wound for each 1 you roll as part of the 2d6, not in the roll to hit phase.

You can also have an artifact coke dose that allows to get extra d3 stacking highs so you can get suuuuuuper hiiiiiigh.

 koooaei wrote:
You can also have an artifact coke dose that allows to get extra d3 stacking highs so you can get suuuuuuper hiiiiiigh.

hehe put that on a daemon prince d3+1 rolls and maybe a psyker for the buff power
crackedofhistits

Ahh, very sad. I was hoping that you could use the combat drugs in a cad. Heres the link to those age of sigmar screens for those like myself interested, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1469

Does anyone know if the warband on pg46 would allow Kharn as the chaos lord if you were running a WE legion?