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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 17:19:12
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hi all.
I'm planning on using Deathwing in a forthcoming game and have a question about the use of Land Raiders in the Deathwing formations.
I know that the recent faq changed the rule in the two Deathwing formations about all units starting in deep strike reserve to say that those units that can't start in deep strike reserve (i.e. Land Raiders) can instead start in reserve. My question is whether I can have the unit that I have purchased the Land Raider for as a dedicated transport start the game embarked inside the Land Raider in reserve or whether (because they have ds rule) that they have to start in ds and the Land Raider starts in reserve empty.
I think it's the former but my friend thinks it's the latter (and would therefore make it quite pointless to take a LR.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 17:25:52
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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So i have looked into this a whole lot and you cant start the terminators in the LR.
If you take a LR as a dedicated transport, the LR starts on the board, and the Terminators start in DS reserve.
You cant DS the LR, and you cant start with the terminators on the board in any way.
As to weather or not the LR has to start in reserves or can be deployed on the board at the start remains to be seen, but either way, if you take it, its gonna be empty.
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To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 17:49:29
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
England
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I just wouldn't take it just to avoid confusion.
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If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me! Believe in the Dakka who believes in you! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 18:40:06
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Backspacehacker wrote:So i have looked into this a whole lot and you cant start the terminators in the LR.
If you take a LR as a dedicated transport, the LR starts on the board, and the Terminators start in DS reserve.
You cant DS the LR, and you cant start with the terminators on the board in any way.
As to weather or not the LR has to start in reserves or can be deployed on the board at the start remains to be seen, but either way, if you take it, its gonna be empty.
yes you can, it has the exact same permission to deep strike as a drop pod, its stupid, but it can.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 18:42:55
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Formosa wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:So i have looked into this a whole lot and you cant start the terminators in the LR.
If you take a LR as a dedicated transport, the LR starts on the board, and the Terminators start in DS reserve.
You cant DS the LR, and you cant start with the terminators on the board in any way.
As to weather or not the LR has to start in reserves or can be deployed on the board at the start remains to be seen, but either way, if you take it, its gonna be empty.
yes you can, it has the exact same permission to deep strike as a drop pod, its stupid, but it can.
Does the land raider have the deep strike rule?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 18:57:47
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Backspacehacker wrote: Formosa wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:So i have looked into this a whole lot and you cant start the terminators in the LR.
If you take a LR as a dedicated transport, the LR starts on the board, and the Terminators start in DS reserve.
You cant DS the LR, and you cant start with the terminators on the board in any way.
As to weather or not the LR has to start in reserves or can be deployed on the board at the start remains to be seen, but either way, if you take it, its gonna be empty.
yes you can, it has the exact same permission to deep strike as a drop pod, its stupid, but it can.
Does the land raider have the deep strike rule?
Does the drop pod have the deep strike rule?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:01:36
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserve. At the beginning of your first turn, half of your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally. Once a Drop Pod lands, all passengers must disembark and no models can embark for the rest of the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 19:01:59
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"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:04:09
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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danyboy wrote: Backspacehacker wrote: Formosa wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:So i have looked into this a whole lot and you cant start the terminators in the LR.
If you take a LR as a dedicated transport, the LR starts on the board, and the Terminators start in DS reserve.
You cant DS the LR, and you cant start with the terminators on the board in any way.
As to weather or not the LR has to start in reserves or can be deployed on the board at the start remains to be seen, but either way, if you take it, its gonna be empty.
yes you can, it has the exact same permission to deep strike as a drop pod, its stupid, but it can.
Does the land raider have the deep strike rule?
Does the drop pod have the deep strike rule?

It does via the drop pod assault special rule which says half of your drop pods in deep strike reserve rounding up arrive turn one.
The drop pod itself has special rules allowing it to arrive from deep strike.
The land raider has no such special rules there fore it can not arrive from deep strike.
Nor does the formation convey any rule to the land raider that allows it to arrive from deep strike reserves.
The only way you can take the LR as a DT for the DW formation is for it to be empty. Until you embark upon it in the field.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:21:33
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Deathwing Assault grants the LR deep strike rule the same way as Drop Pod Assault grants it to DP. Read both rules and compare them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 19:25:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:50:14
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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danyboy wrote:Deathwing Assault grants the LR deep strike rule the same way as Drop Pod Assault grants it to DP. Read both rules and compare them.
No it does not, the Deathwing special rule does not convey itself, nor does it convey deep strike to any unit. No where in the formation does it say it gives deep strike to the unit, drop pods already have a mechanism for arriving from deep strike reserves and land raider does not.
The drop pod does not gain the Dee strike rule, it has its own rule called drop pod assault i
Looking at it right now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:54:17
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Backspacehacker wrote:It does via the drop pod assault special rule which says half of your drop pods in deep strike reserve rounding up arrive turn one.
The drop pod itself has special rules allowing it to arrive from deep strike.
The land raider has no such special rules there fore it can not arrive from deep strike.
Nor does the formation convey any rule to the land raider that allows it to arrive from deep strike reserves.
The only way you can take the LR as a DT for the DW formation is for it to be empty. Until you embark upon it in the field.
No, it does not give them the Deep Strike rule, it just bypasses it by putting them in the situation that only allows Deep Strike to resolve it. It's not quite the same thing.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 19:55:04
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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But, let's go through this, how, if we allow the land raider to start in DS reserves, does it arrive from Deep strike reserves? Automatically Appended Next Post: Charistoph wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:It does via the drop pod assault special rule which says half of your drop pods in deep strike reserve rounding up arrive turn one.
The drop pod itself has special rules allowing it to arrive from deep strike.
The land raider has no such special rules there fore it can not arrive from deep strike.
Nor does the formation convey any rule to the land raider that allows it to arrive from deep strike reserves.
The only way you can take the LR as a DT for the DW formation is for it to be empty. Until you embark upon it in the field.
No, it does not give them the Deep Strike rule, it just bypasses it by putting them in the situation that only allows Deep Strike to resolve it. It's not quite the same thing.
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Yea it does not give them DS, but, it has no rules for arriving from deep strike. That's the problem. Unless it has deep strike or a drop pod assault rule, which it has neither there is no way to pull it in from DS reserves
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 19:56:49
To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:01:22
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Backspacehacker wrote:But, let's go through this, how, if we allow the land raider to start in DS reserves, does it arrive from Deep strike reserves?
...
Yea it does not give them DS, but, it has no rules for arriving from deep strike. That's the problem. Unless it has deep strike or a drop pod assault rule, which it has neither there is no way to pull it in from DS reserves
The definition of Deep Strike Reserves should answer that question right away, I would think.
When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).
So, by declaring something is in Deep Strike Reserves, you are declaring the unit to be in Reserves and will be arriving by Deep Strike.
It's all right there in black and white.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:08:44
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Charistoph wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:But, let's go through this, how, if we allow the land raider to start in DS reserves, does it arrive from Deep strike reserves?
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Yea it does not give them DS, but, it has no rules for arriving from deep strike. That's the problem. Unless it has deep strike or a drop pod assault rule, which it has neither there is no way to pull it in from DS reserves
The definition of Deep Strike Reserves should answer that question right away, I would think.
When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).
So, by declaring something is in Deep Strike Reserves, you are declaring the unit to be in Reserves and will be arriving by Deep Strike.
It's all right there in black and white.
Ohhhh yeah! That's right! Except you can't deep strike unless you have the deep strike special rule or a rule that over writes it.....
Additionally if a unit can not see strike, it would just go into reserves, but again, the formation rules say, all units MUST start in deep strike reserves. So you can take the LR but it's going to be in reserves not deep strike reserves, And it will be empty becuase is the terminators MUST. Start in Deep strike reserve via the formation rules becuase they have the ability to deep strike.
Unless the model has the deep strike or drop pod assault special rule, it can not arrive via deep strike.
There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserves.
You can not just say a model is going to arrive from deep strike unless it actually has the ability to deep strike.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 20:10:16
To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:15:14
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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You can't just "place a unit in deep strike reserves", it needs to have the rule, otherwise it just enters reserves.
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"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:16:36
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Retrogamer0001 wrote:You can't just "place a unit in deep strike reserves", it needs to have the rule, otherwise it just enters reserves.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Otherwise, lol my warlord is going to deep strike because I'm gonna say it's in Deep strike reserves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:25:03
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Backspacehacker wrote:Ohhhh yeah! That's right! Except you can't deep strike unless you have the deep strike special rule or a rule that over writes it.....
Additionally if a unit can not see strike, it would just go into reserves, but again, the formation rules say, all units MUST start in deep strike reserves. So you can take the LR but it's going to be in reserves not deep strike reserves, And it will be empty becuase is the terminators MUST. Start in Deep strike reserve via the formation rules becuase they have the ability to deep strike.
Unless the model has the deep strike or drop pod assault special rule, it can not arrive via deep strike.
There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserves.
You can not just say a model is going to arrive from deep strike unless it actually has the ability to deep strike.
I am not just saying a model is going to arrive from Deep Strike without the Deep Strike Special Rule. I am saying that Drop Pod Assault does so. In fact, it requires it for a Drop Pod since the Drop Pod does not carry it natively nor does the Drop Pod Assault rule ever state, "this model has the Deep Strike rule", like the Necron's Veil of Darkness Artefact does.
Now, what do both of the Deathwing detachments rules also do? Require units to be in Deep Strike Reserves just like a Drop Pod.
Retrogamer0001 wrote:You can't just "place a unit in deep strike reserves", it needs to have the rule, otherwise it just enters reserves.
You just quoted the rule as to how Drop Pods do that, didn't you?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 20:25:19
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Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:28:06
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Where does it say that Land Raiders have Drop Pod Assault?
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"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:31:15
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Backspacehacker wrote:
Ohhhh yeah! That's right! Except you can't deep strike unless you have the deep strike special rule or a rule that over writes it.....
Additionally if a unit can not see strike, it would just go into reserves, but again, the formation rules say, all units MUST start in deep strike reserves. So you can take the LR but it's going to be in reserves not deep strike reserves, And it will be empty becuase is the terminators MUST. Start in Deep strike reserve via the formation rules becuase they have the ability to deep strike.
Unless the model has the deep strike or drop pod assault special rule, it can not arrive via deep strike.
There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserves.
You can not just say a model is going to arrive from deep strike unless it actually has the ability to deep strike.
It makes no sense for you to say "There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserve." The rule calls for deep strike reserve, not regular reserve. If it's not deep striking, then it's not really Deep Strike Reserve as the rules call for it. It doesn't say all units must start in reserve, it says deep strike reserve. So, either it can deep strike in which case it goes into deep strike reserve, or you shouldn't be taking the unit with the formation because it can't meet the requirements. It doesn't go into reserves and come onto the edge of the board like normal reserves.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 20:32:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:33:36
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Where did I say they did?
I said that the Deathwing Detachments require their units to start in Deep Strike Reserve just like Drop Pod Assault does.
And since we have an apparent conflict in which units which do not have Deep Strike rule (Drop Pods and Land Raiders) are put in Reserves to arrive by Deep Strike, which is counter to the Deep Strike rule's initial sentence, then I would refer you to Basic vs Advanced in the rulebook's General Principles which give codices cart blanche to overwrite rules in the rulebook.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 20:38:42
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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doctortom wrote: Backspacehacker wrote:
Ohhhh yeah! That's right! Except you can't deep strike unless you have the deep strike special rule or a rule that over writes it.....
Additionally if a unit can not see strike, it would just go into reserves, but again, the formation rules say, all units MUST start in deep strike reserves. So you can take the LR but it's going to be in reserves not deep strike reserves, And it will be empty becuase is the terminators MUST. Start in Deep strike reserve via the formation rules becuase they have the ability to deep strike.
Unless the model has the deep strike or drop pod assault special rule, it can not arrive via deep strike.
There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserves.
You can not just say a model is going to arrive from deep strike unless it actually has the ability to deep strike.
It makes no sense for you to say "There is no way around that. If it can't arrive from deep strike it has to go into reserve." The rule calls for deep strike reserve, not regular reserve. If it's not deep striking, then it's not really Deep Strike Reserve as the rules call for it. It doesn't say all units must start in reserve, it says deep strike reserve. So, either it can deep strike in which case it goes into deep strike reserve, or you shouldn't be taking the unit with the formation because it can't meet the requirements. It doesn't go into reserves and come onto the edge of the board like normal reserves.
My apologies in my fit of neck beard nerd rage I was referencing two things.
If a unit can not deep strike and must be placed in deep strike reserves, it is forcibly put into reserves. This is in the case of any sort of warp foolery that can put a unit into reserves.
NOW what I'm actually looking for, and trying to find out, is if you can do that with the Deathwing formations. The Deathwing formations are clear in that, all units MUST start in deep strike reserve, however becuase the land raider has noy to arrive via deep strike it would be put into normal reserves. I'm trying to find the for forcing to reserves if you can't see strike over writes the must start in deep strike reserve rule of the formation.
Regardless of the answer to that, you can not deep strike a unit unless it has a rule allowing it to arrive from deep strike.
If we to are assume that you can take a LR and it does go into reserves, then either way the terminators would still have to be in deep strike reserves as they have the ability to arrive via deep strike. Automatically Appended Next Post: Charistoph wrote:
Where did I say they did?
I said that the Deathwing Detachments require their units to start in Deep Strike Reserve just like Drop Pod Assault does.
And since we have an apparent conflict in which units which do not have Deep Strike rule (Drop Pods and Land Raiders) are put in Reserves to arrive by Deep Strike, which is counter to the Deep Strike rule's initial sentence, then I would refer you to Basic vs Advanced in the rulebook's General Principles which give codices cart blanche to overwrite rules in the rulebook.
Ok ok so I get what you are saying, here. But the thing is, the land raider, does not have any rules for it to arrive in a deep strike fashion. It would be placed into reserves and arrive using the normal reserves rule. The drop pods arrive via deep strike becuase their drop pod rules spicificly alow then to. Land raiders have no such rule, there for can not deep strike they arrive as normal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 20:42:12
To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 21:15:21
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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"Drop pod assault: drop pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve. at the beginning of your first turn, half your drop pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from reserve. the arrival of the remaining drop pods is rolled for normally."
"Deathwing Assault: All units in this formation must be placed in deep strike reserve. Immediately after determining warlord traits, make a secret note of which of your turns you would like each Deathwing redemption force in your army to arrive: your turn 2,3 or 4. all units in the formation automatically arrive by deep strike at the start of the chosen turn"
Both rules give permission to arrive via deep strike, in fact both FORCE you to arrive via deep strike, neither have the deep strike rule, but are told to use it to deploy, there is no argument here, land raiders can deep strike, its dim, doubtful its RAI but .... ergh.... its RAW.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 21:16:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 21:37:11
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Formosa wrote:"Drop pod assault: drop pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve. at the beginning of your first turn, half your drop pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from reserve. the arrival of the remaining drop pods is rolled for normally."
"Deathwing Assault: All units in this formation must be placed in deep strike reserve. Immediately after determining warlord traits, make a secret note of which of your turns you would like each Deathwing redemption force in your army to arrive: your turn 2,3 or 4. all units in the formation automatically arrive by deep strike at the start of the chosen turn"
Both rules give permission to arrive via deep strike, in fact both FORCE you to arrive via deep strike, neither have the deep strike rule, but are told to use it to deploy, there is no argument here, land raiders can deep strike, its dim, doubtful its RAI but .... ergh.... its RAW.
This I will 100% agree with you for this formation. With rules as written, this would in fact allow you to see strike a land raider as it does appear to give you a way to enter in from deep strike reserves. HOWERVER, it should be noted that it is specified for the dreadnought that for Deathwing formations is must take a drop pod so as to enter from Deep strike as the dread itself does not have a way to do it. So I'm still very leery of the wording of this.
It may be doable if you look at it in a spicific way for the redemption force but I would still argue the drop pod requirement for dreads is an indication that the unit must be able to arrive from deep strike normally to actually utilize the rule.
This however does not change for the Deathwing strike force. As it only states they must be placed there and does not say they arrive via deep strike. That would force the land raider into reserves forcing it to come in via normal reserve rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/05 21:58:32
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Backspacehacker wrote:This I will 100% agree with you for this formation. With rules as written, this would in fact allow you to see strike a land raider as it does appear to give you a way to enter in from deep strike reserves. HOWERVER, it should be noted that it is specified for the dreadnought that for Deathwing formations is must take a drop pod so as to enter from Deep strike as the dread itself does not have a way to do it. So I'm still very leery of the wording of this.
It may be doable if you look at it in a spicific way for the redemption force but I would still argue the drop pod requirement for dreads is an indication that the unit must be able to arrive from deep strike normally to actually utilize the rule.
This however does not change for the Deathwing strike force. As it only states they must be placed there and does not say they arrive via deep strike. That would force the land raider into reserves forcing it to come in via normal reserve rules.
Then Drop Pods move on to the table as normal Reserve, as Drop Pod Assault does not state it arrives by Deep Strike.
However, if we recognize the very definition of "Deep Strike Reserves" is in Reserves to arrive by Deep Strike, a codex-level rule placing a unit in Deep Strike Reserves is specifically stating that it is arriving by Deep Strike when it comes from Reserves. It doe not put in to Reserves if it doesn't have Deep Strike.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 21:59:18
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/07 05:28:12
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Formosa wrote:"Drop pod assault: drop pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve. at the beginning of your first turn, half your drop pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from reserve. the arrival of the remaining drop pods is rolled for normally."
"Deathwing Assault: All units in this formation must be placed in deep strike reserve. Immediately after determining warlord traits, make a secret note of which of your turns you would like each Deathwing redemption force in your army to arrive: your turn 2,3 or 4. all units in the formation automatically arrive by deep strike at the start of the chosen turn"
Both rules give permission to arrive via deep strike, in fact both FORCE you to arrive via deep strike, neither have the deep strike rule, but are told to use it to deploy, there is no argument here, land raiders can deep strike, its dim, doubtful its RAI but .... ergh.... its RAW.
Thanks to the 1st draft FAQs you have he incorrect text.
The change to "All units in this formation that can do so must be placed in deep strike reserves..." means this rule cannot grant permission to place units in deep strike reserve.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/07 09:26:52
Subject: Re:Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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The Dark Angels FAQ indeed does prevent Land Raiders from Deep Striking any more, no question about that. The thing that I never understood was why are people so averse to Land Raiders Deep Striking to begin with?
It's not like the Land Raiders would teleport or fly using their own wings, they are being carried.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/07 14:41:41
Subject: Re:Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Lammikkovalas wrote:The Dark Angels FAQ indeed does prevent Land Raiders from Deep Striking any more, no question about that. The thing that I never understood was why are people so averse to Land Raiders Deep Striking to begin with?
It's not like the Land Raiders would teleport or fly using their own wings, they are being carried.
And they forget that Blood Angel Land Raiders could natively Deep Strike for a time. So it's not THAT unusual.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/08 16:39:42
Subject: Re:Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Lammikkovalas wrote:The Dark Angels FAQ indeed does prevent Land Raiders from Deep Striking any more, no question about that. The thing that I never understood was why are people so averse to Land Raiders Deep Striking to begin with?
It's not like the Land Raiders would teleport or fly using their own wings, they are being carried.
If it deep strikes it's not by being carried by transport. To simulate that you would have actual flier come in and land in and disembark it.
If it comes by airplane there's for example this thing called "anti-aircraft" weapons that could shoot them down before it even gets to land.
So yeah land raiders can be transported by airplane. Deep strike just ain't that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/08 16:40:00
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/08 16:43:45
Subject: Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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DJGietzen wrote: Formosa wrote:"Drop pod assault: drop pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve. at the beginning of your first turn, half your drop pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from reserve. the arrival of the remaining drop pods is rolled for normally."
"Deathwing Assault: All units in this formation must be placed in deep strike reserve. Immediately after determining warlord traits, make a secret note of which of your turns you would like each Deathwing redemption force in your army to arrive: your turn 2,3 or 4. all units in the formation automatically arrive by deep strike at the start of the chosen turn"
Both rules give permission to arrive via deep strike, in fact both FORCE you to arrive via deep strike, neither have the deep strike rule, but are told to use it to deploy, there is no argument here, land raiders can deep strike, its dim, doubtful its RAI but .... ergh.... its RAW.
Thanks to the 1st draft FAQs you have he incorrect text.
The change to "All units in this formation that can do so must be placed in deep strike reserves..." means this rule cannot grant permission to place units in deep strike reserve.
Well there we go, debate settled then, a land raider goes into reserves.
But here is my question now, if i take the land raider as a transport for say deathwing knights. Do the knights start in deep strike and the LR in reserves empty? Because it says all units that can MUST start in deep strike reserve. The knights can deep strike, so does that force the LR to be empty still?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/08 16:46:03
To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/08 17:33:38
Subject: Re:Using Land Raiders in Deathwing formations
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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tneva82 wrote: Lammikkovalas wrote:The Dark Angels FAQ indeed does prevent Land Raiders from Deep Striking any more, no question about that. The thing that I never understood was why are people so averse to Land Raiders Deep Striking to begin with?
It's not like the Land Raiders would teleport or fly using their own wings, they are being carried.
If it deep strikes it's not by being carried by transport. To simulate that you would have actual flier come in and land in and disembark it.
If it comes by airplane there's for example this thing called "anti-aircraft" weapons that could shoot them down before it even gets to land.
So yeah land raiders can be transported by airplane. Deep strike just ain't that.
Except in the Blood Angels 5th edition codex we could deep strike land raiders and the fluff description was exactly that: dropped off by thunderhawk. No need to represent the thunderhawk on the table. Strange but true...
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