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General Annoyance wrote:I guess trolls who take the bait attract more trolls, eh Traditio?

It makes me wonder:

Where are the "troll" threads designed to "troll" people who think that nothing in the game is broken?

When I complain because a fething 17 point MEQ has fearless, relentless, FNP and T5 (meanwhile, compare that to what Iron Warriors got), I get an entire thread devoted to making fun of me.

Where are the threads mocking people who think that riptides are less points-efficient, durable, etc. than LRBTs?

Where are those threads?

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

There's always delusional ATT types in any Tau thread. I choose to ignore them.

I think this has been brought up before - you aren't always incorrect or on the completely wrong train of thought, but when you consistently misinterpret people's responses, set up polls to create flimsy conclusions derived from that data, and accuse others of being trolls for not agreeing with you while simultaneously ignoring both their and other's valid points of view, you're asking to not be taken seriously.

Also Tyranid is spelt with one r, not two.

 Traditio wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:I guess trolls who take the bait attract more trolls, eh Traditio?

It makes me wonder:

Where are the "troll" threads designed to "troll" people who think that nothing in the game is broken?

When I complain because a fething 17 point MEQ has fearless, relentless, FNP and T5 (meanwhile, compare that to what Iron Warriors got), I get an entire thread devoted to making fun of me.

Where are the threads mocking people who think that riptides are less points-efficient, durable, etc. than LRBTs?

Where are those threads?

One good Chaos Marine unit not make a codex. They fit the fluff and chaos needed some love.

There's also plenty of over costed and sub par units that are weak for costs.

...

Secondly.

For all your polls. You seem to have gained less wisdom that the sum information gained.

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

You're right, one person speaks for everyone, and he definitely wasn't told he was wrong.

 Jancoran wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Hmm, spirited conversation, this. Is this kind of thread common nowadays? I remember these forums as slightly quieter.

Only with Dakka's favorite troll taking the bait here. If not for him, things are quieter.

(Sisters of Battle-related stuff and Australian shipping, excluded, of course...)

There's also my ongoing effort to convince Martel the Blood Angels are less terrible than he thinks that occasionally takes random threads off on a funny tangent.

Martel will not miss an opportunity to tell people how bad Blood Angels are.

Ha why are you guys trolling Martel? ...if 2 non-Blood Angel players can convince Martel that he's wrong and the Blood Angels are in fact great, you still have pretty much the rest of the 40k community to convince. When it comes to "competitive 40K" the Blood Angels are always near the bottom and most people already understand this.

Also while I personally LOVE Angel's Blade, it did nothing to change that [competitive 40k] because it's incredibly inefficient at the 1850 or 1650 points level. Are you trying to say that your army is worse off and therefore you are just a better game-general or deserving of more praise/sympathy because of your army adversity? Seriously dudes, weak.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
You automatically assumed I play a gun line when I actually play mech tau. Guards should get a buff to their gunlines? You do realize how boring it is to face a gunline right there's only 1 stationary unit in my army and that's my broadside everything else in my army moves whether that be up the board or retreats so most of my army is in the 12" supporting fire bubble from the hunter cadre

Nice moving the goalpost. What you play is not relevant. The point is not: "facing a gunline is frustrating?". It can be.
(Albeit I find ironic this remark from a player of one of the most frustrating armies to play against - an army that has a counter to everything).

The point raised was "tau should outshoot everybody" but that's not true because they have mobility advantage over gunline armies.
They should not outshoot gunlines AND have greater mobility. Fullstop.
Everything else said in this regard is unfocused or plain wrong.

Because I totally made people post 20 posts about Tau. I just brought it up as example of how Imperial shooting fails utterly. Imperial heavy weapons are gak except for grav and the relatively rare multilaser. Xenos get lots of great choices including troops that can rip GMCs to pieces, ranged D, flamer D, AP 2 ignore cover pie plates, etc.

 General Annoyance wrote:

Also Tyranid is spelt with one r, not two.

Not if you roll the "r." Like "rrrrr." Say it with me. "rrrr."

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Nice moving the goalpost. What you play is not relevant. The point is not: "facing a gunline is frustrating?". It can be.
(Albeit I find ironic this remark from a player of one of the most frustrating armies to play against - an army that has a counter to everything).

The point raised was "tau should outshoot everybody" but that's not true because they have mobility advantage over gunline armies.
They should not outshoot gunlines AND have greater mobility. Fullstop.
Everything else said in this regard is unfocused or plain wrong.

They have mobility as well as shooting but they don't have psykers at all and exceedingly weak melee. IG might be slow (although they do have some mobile units) but they do have decent psyker options and are marginally better at CC. IG's main issue is just their codex is 6th ed whilst tau is 7th, no?

Well, Daemons are also 6th ed and they already did pretty good even before Fenris I. An old codex is a too easy explanation, especially when you hear Ork players saying that their older Codex was actually stronger than the current one .

LOL, hey look, a thread went more than 5 pages, time to evolve to it's final form "Boo wah Riptides!"

Riptides over perform for the cost, yup. Agreed. 100% in fact.
Wildly over nerf the unit into the ground, removing its defining features, 100% disagree, lets nerf it so it at least resembles what its supposed to do (mild nerf to gun, mild nerf to T/Armor, mild nerf to options, probably serisouly balanced without trashing the unit. I realize revenge is wanted by many, but that's not productive)

Missile launchers ate my crisis commander for lunch, and instant deathed him, 15 pt upgrade killed my 165 point special named commander, pls nerf missile launcher!

 pumaman1 wrote:
LOL, hey look, a thread went more than 5 pages, time to evolve to it's final form "Boo wah Riptides!"

Riptides over perform for the cost, yup. Agreed. 100% in fact.
Wildly over nerf the unit into the ground, removing its defining features, 100% disagree, lets nerf it so it at least resembles what its supposed to do (mild nerf to gun, mild nerf to T/Armor, mild nerf to options, probably serisouly balanced without trashing the unit. I realize revenge is wanted by many, but that's not productive)

Missile launchers ate my crisis commander for lunch, and instant deathed him, 15 pt upgrade killed my 165 point special named commander, pls nerf missile launcher!

Its not like you can stop that happening.

We had complaints about AM and Tau. Time for another codex, perhaps?

---

So, yesterday I played a bizarre Eldar list. The guy generally uses strong stuff like Wraithlords, Shining Spears and Storm Guardians - yeah, I know, right? Freaking WAAC dude. Well, this time he surpassed himself with TFG-ness: he brought some girls that didn't allow me to overwatch! THE DOLT! And not only that, but I had to test for FEAR! Golly molly, who in these days bring Fear units? Everyone told me it was useless!

Now I don't play him anymore. People laugh when I tell them what transpired; of course they would! No overwatch, fear, S3 AP3 infantry models, come on...

 pumaman1 wrote:
LOL, hey look, a thread went more than 5 pages, time to evolve to it's final form "Boo wah Riptides!"

Riptides over perform for the cost, yup. Agreed. 100% in fact.
Wildly over nerf the unit into the ground, removing its defining features, 100% disagree, lets nerf it so it at least resembles what its supposed to do (mild nerf to gun, mild nerf to T/Armor, mild nerf to options, probably serisouly balanced without trashing the unit. I realize revenge is wanted by many, but that's not productive)

Missile launchers ate my crisis commander for lunch, and instant deathed him, 15 pt upgrade killed my 165 point special named commander, pls nerf missile launcher!

When a unit is the poster child for the problems of 7th ed, it's going to get brought up a lot. Being more durable than a warhound titan against most weapons gets attention.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

There's always delusional ATT types in any Tau thread. I choose to ignore them.

Delusional? No you are the delusional ones you cry cheese at any time Tau get anything good because we shoot you and move away but guess what a smart player can beat tau. You just don't like the fact you can't charge at us and wreck our lists in melee anymore and m sorry if you play any kind of marine army with the exception of chaos you have no right to complain.

The whole point of the tau play style is we shoot you run away gang up on you and shoot you again but once again imperial players who mostly want to drive their marines at the tau lines and charge them and win andas someone who also plays chaos I find it rathet hilarious imperium players complaining about tau being too op in the shooting phase when you guys have been stealing things chaos were known for.

 Vector Strike wrote:
So, yesterday I played a bizarre Eldar list. The guy generally uses strong stuff like Wraithlords, Shining Spears and Storm Guardians - yeah, I know, right? Freaking WAAC dude. Well, this time he surpassed himself with TFG-ness: he brought some girls that didn't allow me to overwatch! THE DOLT! And not only that, but I had to test for FEAR! Golly molly, who in these days bring Fear units? Everyone told me it was useless!

Now I don't play him anymore. People laugh when I tell them what transpired; of course they would! No overwatch, fear, S3 AP3 infantry models, come on...

I don't blame you, I'd never play such a cheesemonger ever again with his S3 power weapons and I5.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

There's always delusional ATT types in any Tau thread. I choose to ignore them.

Delusional? No you are the delusional ones you cry cheese at any time Tau get anything good because we shoot you and move away but guess what a smart player can beat tau. You just don't like the fact you can't charge at us and wreck our lists in melee anymore and m sorry if you play any kind of marine army with the exception of chaos you have no right to complain.

The whole point of the tau play style is we shoot you run away gang up on you and shoot you again but once again imperial players who mostly want to drive their marines at the tau lines and charge them and win andas someone who also plays chaos I find it rathet hilarious imperium players complaining about tau being too op in the shooting phase when you guys have been stealing things chaos were known for.

You are being a bit delusional. There's "good", like broadsides and crisis suits, and then there's "MC that takes sucks up more firepower than a titan". Even grav is not really that effective vs the Riptide or Stormsurge, which begs the question, what is? Nothing other than D.

 Traditio wrote:
When I complain because a fething 17 point MEQ has fearless, relentless, FNP and T5 (meanwhile, compare that to what Iron Warriors got), I get an entire thread devoted to making fun of me.

Sounds fine to me. Maybe bring less boltguns.

Where are the threads mocking people who think that riptides are less points-efficient, durable, etc. than LRBTs?

You can kill Riptides with Missile Launchers. I thought you'd love them.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

There's always delusional ATT types in any Tau thread. I choose to ignore them.

Delusional? No you are the delusional ones you cry cheese at any time Tau get anything good because we shoot you and move away but guess what a smart player can beat tau. You just don't like the fact you can't charge at us and wreck our lists in melee anymore and m sorry if you play any kind of marine army with the exception of chaos you have no right to complain.

The whole point of the tau play style is we shoot you run away gang up on you and shoot you again but once again imperial players who mostly want to drive their marines at the tau lines and charge them and win andas someone who also plays chaos I find it rathet hilarious imperium players complaining about tau being too op in the shooting phase when you guys have been stealing things chaos were known for.

I play Tau. I own 4,000 points of them, and I've never owned a single Marine army of any sort.
By "delusional ATT types", I mean the kind of people who say that Tau are "barely competitive" or "Ork-tier without Y'vahras" or "Riptides are balanced or underpowered". That blatant disconnection from reality is disturbing, which is why I call it out wherever it arises.
Also, I had to read your post four times to actually comprehend what you were trying to say. You may want to reword it in the future, so your message is more coherent.

The great equalizer against Tau is the most broken psychic power in the game. If I need a tac nuke-style solution to stop you, your list might be pretty strong.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
The player base has been shrinking since the advent of 6th edition. Say what you want, but power creep, scale creep, price creep, etc. are all to blame for this.

Correlation does not equal causation. There is no proof that "scale creep" and "power creep" are the reason 40k is losing players. there a whole host of factors for why 40k is losing market dominance.

I'm sure this one tiny factor, known as "more competing games in the market than ever before" surely has nothing do with it. Must be the balance, which used to be great before, before it started turning players away.

Oh wait.

Martel732 wrote:
The great equalizer against Tau is the most broken psychic power in the game. If I need a tac nuke-style solution to stop you, your list might be pretty strong.

And it should be Martel its time for you marine players to accept the fact that you shouldn't have an easy time beating my army


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
You guys have no idea just how amused I am by the turn that this thread has taken.

You made the thread to mock me for saying that death guard rules are OP.

And here we have a tau player claiming that riptides are not OP and that, indeed, the riptide is necessary for a tau codex that otherwise wouldn't fare very well at all.

Because the tau codex is full of units that are neither durable, have long range nor hit hard.

Lol.

There's always delusional ATT types in any Tau thread. I choose to ignore them.

Delusional? No you are the delusional ones you cry cheese at any time Tau get anything good because we shoot you and move away but guess what a smart player can beat tau. You just don't like the fact you can't charge at us and wreck our lists in melee anymore and m sorry if you play any kind of marine army with the exception of chaos you have no right to complain.

The whole point of the tau play style is we shoot you run away gang up on you and shoot you again but once again imperial players who mostly want to drive their marines at the tau lines and charge them and win andas someone who also plays chaos I find it rathet hilarious imperium players complaining about tau being too op in the shooting phase when you guys have been stealing things chaos were known for.

I play Tau. I own 4,000 points of them, and I've never owned a single Marine army of any sort.
By "delusional ATT types", I mean the kind of people who say that Tau are "barely competitive" or "Ork-tier without Y'vahras" or "Riptides are balanced or underpowered". That blatant disconnection from reality is disturbing, which is why I call it out wherever it arises.
Also, I had to read your post four times to actually comprehend what you were trying to say. You may want to reword it in the future, so your message is more coherent.

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

But its okay for you to autowin vs BA and orks? Gotcha.


Drop pods are pure suicide vs tau. Quit acting like they aren't.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

There it is!

The "git gud" argument.

I'm sure NO ONE has EVER thought to shoot at the markerlights or use drop pods! NO ONE EVER! What a fething revelation!

Can you teach us more, oh master of strategy.

 Runic wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
The player base has been shrinking since the advent of 6th edition. Say what you want, but power creep, scale creep, price creep, etc. are all to blame for this.

Correlation does not equal causation. There is no proof that "scale creep" and "power creep" are the reason 40k is losing players. there a whole host of factors for why 40k is losing market dominance.

I'm sure this one tiny factor, known as "more competing games in the market than ever before" surely has nothing do with it. Must be the balance, which used to be great before, before it started turning players away.

Oh wait.

Or maybe the is more complex and we have a combination of balance off the charts (more and more every edition, so less and less people can stomach that) AND competent competitors.

But this would be too much of a complicated situation to be realistic, right?

 Blacksails wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

There it is!

The "git gud" argument.

I'm sure NO ONE has EVER thought to shoot at the markerlights or use drop pods! NO ONE EVER! What a fething revelation!

Can you teach us more, oh master of strategy.

Actually no its called common sense. Drop your pods right in front of their unit remember interceptor is at the end of the movement phase so even if you scatter say 5" off target you still have your regular movement to get within 1" of their units and I can bet you most Tau players won't intercept those units.

Martel again I'm sorry am I supposed to feel sorry for you after what I had to out up with ba doing as a chaos player

Whatever you want to call it, you do understand that people have figured this out years ago, and that it doesn't change the simple fact the riptide is too good for its points?

Soon you'll be telling us what a burden it is to bring pathfinders for markerlights.

Honestly man, this isn't hard stuff. When the Tau players are telling you you're wrong, maybe you should go re-consider what it is you're arguing.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

There it is!

The "git gud" argument.

I'm sure NO ONE has EVER thought to shoot at the markerlights or use drop pods! NO ONE EVER! What a fething revelation!

Can you teach us more, oh master of strategy.

Actually no its called common sense. Drop your pods right in front of their unit remember interceptor is at the end of the movement phase so even if you scatter say 5" off target you still have your regular movement to get within 1" of their units and I can bet you most Tau players won't intercept those units.

Martel again I'm sorry am I supposed to feel sorry for you after what I had to out up with ba doing as a chaos player

Vanilla marines have to build deathstars with invis or spam bodies like orks with gladius to keep up with Tau. Those are the defining differences between vanilla and BA in this case. But tell me again why the Riptide needs to be able to suck down 50 lascannon shots.

 Traditio wrote:
Where are the threads mocking people who think that riptides are less points-efficient, durable, etc. than LRBTs?

Where are those threads?

They all seem to get locked for some reason.
Remember:

 BBAP wrote:
Points values are set around armies, not units. It's not that 55pts of unit [x] is exactly as "good" as 55pts of unit [y]. The idea is that 1850pts of army [x] should be as powerful as 1850pts of army [y]. The fact the game has different unit types, each with different strengths and weaknesses, each with different things they counter and are countered by, means that's not always the case.